[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I'm sure I have the right fit/seal now, and I A/B'd against my Denon 2000s. The Denon's just have better clarity and transparency, where the W4s sound kind of muddy/veiled in comparison. Maybe this is just how IEM's are going to sound compared to an open, full headphone. I'm new to this, obviously. The Denon's just sound more engaging and fun to me. Unfortunately, almost any over the head headphone gives me a headache quickly, so I'm probably going to be selling the Denon's shortly.

Uh no.  There are IEMs that have better clarity and transparency than the D2000.  The D7000 is not even a champion in that regard.  There's quite a few reasons why you might hear the W4 like that.  
 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Uh no.  There are IEMs that have better clarity and transparency than the D2000.  The D7000 is not even a champion in that regard.  There's quite a few reasons why you might hear the W4 like that.  
 

I agree.  It's not very hard for an IEM to surpass the D2000 in all those areas.  My SE530s best the D2000 in all pretty much categories but size of soundstage (which is the biggest weakness of IEMs) and from the other reports it doesn't seem likely that the W4s are technically inferior to the SE530s.
 
Its probably just a fit issue.

 

[rbf1138]

I appreciate all the input. I think I've got the fit really close now, it's still just this feeling of a sort of muffling, or veil over the vocals at times, creating a more muddy, mushy sound. Then with other songs, particularly stuff like Kid A, James Blake, more electronic stuff, it sounds much clearer. Neko Case, for example, doesn't sound as smooth and clear as she does with my RE0s.

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

I appreciate all the input. I think I've got the fit really close now, it's still just this feeling of a sort of muffling, or veil over the vocals at times, creating a more muddy, mushy sound. Then with other songs, particularly stuff like Kid A, James Blake, more electronic stuff, it sounds much clearer. Neko Case, for example, doesn't sound as smooth and clear as she does with my RE0s.

The fit is probably fine. That's the nature of the W4.  I felt the same way.  Quite veiled and not very transparent  It's not for everyone.
 
 

 

[rbf1138]

Quote:

The fit is probably fine. That's the nature of the W4.  I felt the same way.  Quite veiled and not very transparent  It's not for everyone.
 
 

That said, what IEM is closer to a mix between the RE0 and W4?
 

 

[treal512]

I agree, Cliff. It is not their nature, rather your preference. When I listen to the W4 and then go to the RE0, it sounds thin and hollow. I can see how going to the W4 might seem veiled, but I believe it is a more natural presentation of the lower frequencies that you are focusing on.. especially being accustomed to and coming from something so light in that region.
 
And +2 on the CK10/DBA02

 

[RADI0HEAD]

+3 on the CK10/DBA-02 for something between the RE0 & W4.

Received my W4s this morning btw. Been listening to them for a few hours so far and will be putting them through their paces throughout the day...

First impression out of the box is they are actually small. They look huge and tubby from online pics. I was a little concerned about this but they are extremely comfortable.

 

[rbf1138]

I'm now considering checking out the CK10, q-Jays, DBA-02 and Brainwavz. Should the CK100 be a consideration also? 

 

[Spyro]

 
Quote:

To me and many many others who own the W4s, veiled not the "nature" of the W4, it's the unfortunate way a few people hear them. Same thing happens with other IEMs, many other IEMs (different ears hear them differently). For one, comparing the W4s to the RE0 is like comparing the W4s to Etys. The are VERY different phones, that much is certain. And if someone favors the RE0s or Etys, it's not likely they will care much for phones that are not within that sound signature. Have you heard the RE0's, spyro? I know you are not a fan of the Etys, so my guess is you would not be a fan of the RE0s either.
 
Not everyone is going to like the same IEM, that's for sure.  But to say the way you hear a phone de facto makes it "their nature" is very misleading.  I have no doubt the W4s are not for you, but they have been very well accepted by the majority of people who own them, who would disagree that they are veiled by nature, considering veiled in this content is a negative term.

 
I disagree.  I base my opinion on a long list of IEM's I have owned or heard.  So someone can look at my list and relative to those, W4 is on the veiled side.  It's not terrible by any means, I never said it was and you are starting to put words in my mouth. This isn't rocket science.  The W4 is a very easy fitting IEM.  So it IS POSSIBLE someone else hears them that way too.  And yes, of course, coming from Etys or REO's they will sound that way.  But they also sound that way compared to many other IEM's that are not considered ultra detailed treble monsters.  W4's aren't the be all end all to everyone so don't think people have hearing problems if they don't think they are.  Lay off!
 
 

 

[rbf1138]

Ok, so CK10 ordered, lol. I can compare against the W4 and see how I feel, keep the one I like more. I may try and get the Fischer's, also. 

 

[RADI0HEAD]

Ok, so CK10 ordered, lol. I can compare against the W4 and see how I feel, keep the one I like more. I may try and get the Fischer's, also. 

I predict you will be selling the W4.

To my ears, the W4 sounds veiled, kind of muddy sometimes, dry and dull compared to the CK10.

Maybe if I hadn't heard the CK10 I would think differently.

This not being the case though. The CK10 is like sweet glistening dew on a crystal clear glass of water.

Btw, better order some triple flange tips for those CK10 or you will be very disappointed.

Edit: The W4 don't sound bad, they are very good. I just wish they were a little wetter sounding. I'll experiment with different tips. That's my subjective opinion on the first day of ownership.

 

[rawrster]

I disagree with the presence of the veil with the Westone 4.
 
I have the Grado GR10 right now as well as the Westone 4. The GR10 has great clarity and definitely near the top in terms of clarity of an earphone I've heard. Next to the GR10 the Westone 4 doesn't have that kind of clarity but I wouldn't say they have a veil.
 
Something like the IE8 on the other hand definitely had a veil to it. While the W4 doesn't have the type of clarity that the GR10 has I wouldn't say that it is lacking in detail next to them so I'm not quite sure where the veil comes from but I guess we all hear differently. I'm definitely interested in other opinions if they hear a veil or not.

 

[shotgunshane]

No veil to my ears.  For me the detail retrieval is the best I've heard.  I will also say that a lean sounding analytical phone has no appeal for me if those are being used as references by some for what sounds veiled or not.
 
But some people think the Panasonic HJE900's are bass heavy and the TF10 treble is piercing.  I couldn't disagree more with all those assessments. Go figure.

 

[rbf1138]

Listening to the RE0 A/B with the W4, I can see why others would feel the RE0 is anemic and thin, even distant. Comparatively, the W4 is warm, full and more immediate. As a result, drums can sound a bit muffled, and vocals (particularly female) can sound like they're being sung into a pillow or fabric. I think the RE0 makes drums sound like they're really cracking and being played in an open room without sound proofing, whereas the W4 sound like it's in a small studio space thats dampened. I'm really interested in what the CK10 will sound like. I'm torn on whether the W4 is just going to be my alternative choice, or if I'm going to sell it entirely.

 

[munkyballz]

rbf: if you think the RE0 sounds too anemic, but prefer that clean, analytical like sound, might want to give the DBA-02's a shot.  They would definitely remove that "veil" ish element that you seem to be experiencing, yet still have a healthy, and punchy accompany of bass, making them pretty attractive sounding, but clean, as well.  The CK10's that you have too, should probably accomplish the same thing, though.