[AudioPowerHead]

THANK YOU for the explanation. Very helpful.
makes it worth looking for an 800. Even een RS06.

The RS06 is value-for-money (although subjectively less attractive in looks vs Vio). Re-sampling is only on/off (this should be the equivalent of "best" option in the V800/850).

 

[AudioPowerHead]

Yes V800 is similar to V850 in many ways, as far as I recall the entire analog stage is nearly identical, as is much of the digital section. V800 used a single Texas Instruments PCM1792 DAC chip while the V850 used a pair of PCM1795 chips - which are newer but also lower in the TI range. The 1792 was their flagship chip and has superior specs (signal to noise, distortion, stop band attenuation, etc). Since V850 uses two of the "lesser" chips in dual mono mode, it's probably a wash, but the point is they aren't far in performance.

The main upgrade was the USB section, which was substantially improved in V850. But if you use SPDIF from your transport, or an external DDC, then it doesn't matter.

DDC stands for Digital to Digital Converter, also sometimes called USB Bridge or other names. Basically they allow one to benefit from the newest USB receiver technology, and convert that signal to SPDIF which any old DAC can make use of. So even an ancient but fun DAC from the 1990's can be used with USB audio, using a DDC to bridge the gap. Hence adding one to the V800 would negate the main improvement brought by V850. Or, you could just use coaxial etc and skip USB if you wish.

Not trying to talk you out of a V850 by any means, just throwing out another option. There's also the less expensive Lake People DAC RS 06 which is another similar option to look for.

Interesting sharing. Didn't know that the PCM1792 is the superior chip to the relatively newer PCM1795. I had impression that it's the other way round. In my case, I own the V850 and had considered getting the Schlit Eitr for USB to SPDIF but changed my mind and took a path less travelled with the RS05(with Femto) for jitter elimination/re-clocking. So far am very happy with my purchase decision.

 

[Music Path]

Interesting sharing. Didn't know that the PCM1792 is the superior chip to the relatively newer PCM1795. I had impression that it's the other way round. In my case, I own the V850 and had considered getting the Schlit Eitr for USB to SPDIF but changed my mind and took a path less travelled with the RS05(with Femto) for jitter elimination/re-clocking. So far am very happy with my purchase decision.

Would have thought the same but from the specs it is true, at least the values are better on the PCM1792. Assuming the V800 has a similar construction in terms of analog design, its probably true that they have similar performance like project86 said. Wonder if the iUSB3.0 or the ipurifer3.0 from ifi would work to improve the usb performance on the v800?
Note that besides that v800 doesn´t allow to change filter, while on the v850 you can change from slow to sharp and vice versa. Don´t if makes big difference, but it shows on the manuals.

Links for chips performances:
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1795
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1792

 

[AudioPowerHead]

Would have thought the same but from the specs it is true, at least the values are better on the PCM1792. Assuming the V800 has a similar construction in terms of analog design, its probably true that they have similar performance like project86 said. Wonder if the iUSB3.0 or the ipurifer3.0 from ifi would work to improve the usb performance on the v800?
Note that besides that v800 doesn´t allow to change filter, while on the v850 you can change from slow to sharp and vice versa. Don´t if makes big difference, but it shows on the manuals.

Links for chips performances:
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1795
https://www.ti.com/product/PCM1792

Thanks for sharing the specs. Before I bought the V850, I asked Fried the difference vs V800, he told me that they had "put more effort" in the analogue circuitry, power supply etc which resulted in subtle but noticeable improvement in sound. Although I did not have the chance to compare them, I do believe him. Other than the dac chip, the implementation is equally; if not arguably more; important.

I do not own the iUSB/ipurifier but I think they do help. I still have a Totaldac USB Filter in my chain to help with 1st level jitter filter on the signal before having it go into the RS05>V850>V280.

 

[project86]

I sometimes use an iPurifier3 for USB and it can make a big difference in certain situations. Same thing with the BMC PureUSB which seems similar to the Totaldac product. I imagine any of these would help out with the V800 but you'd still be stuck with an old Tenor adaptive USB solution topping out at 24/96, so I would think a USB to SPDIF converter would be more beneficial.

The RS05 has always intrigued me. I bet it does a great job.

 

[AudioPowerHead]

IMHO, the RS05 is a critical piece in the chain for effective jitter elimination to give the dac the purest signal possible. Did simple A/B (with & without) test some time back, there was audible improvement.

 

[Law87]

guys a little confuse by this statement


"The frequency range covers 5 Hz ... 70 kHz (-0.5 dB) or 3 Hz...200 kHz
respectively (-3 dB), in order to ensure fully linear performance within
the entire audible range"

what is this mean?

 

[RobertSM]

@Law87

The German to English translation of the owners manual is a little rough.

 

[Law87]

@Law87

The German to English translation of the owners manual is a little rough.

O I thought that meant if I reduced the gain to -6db it would cover from 3hz to 200kHz

 

[Pharmaboy]

guys a little confuse by this statement


"The frequency range covers 5 Hz ... 70 kHz (-0.5 dB) or 3 Hz...200 kHz
respectively (-3 dB), in order to ensure fully linear performance within
the entire audible range"

what is this mean?

It means this is an exceptionally wideband amplifier, with outputted frequencies remaining under control/within specs well below & above the human threshold of hearing. That suggests a robust power supply, highly spec'd output devices, and a clean, low noise & distortion circuit...with the result being "fully linear performance within the entire audible range."

This has nothing to do with user-selectable gain settings. Instead it presumably describes the amp's performance under test-load conditions.

 

[Pharmaboy]

(sorry double post)

 

[D P C]

Well having just got myself a lovely V281 from a forum member, i must say i am very happy with the pairing of it along with my hd800s, adds a nice bit of warmth and bass, without losing any top end or the ridiculous huge sound stage the hd800s have.
Being feed directly from my rossini and clock on its balanced outputs, very revealing and just a lush sound to it all

 

[Kozwoz]

I wonder if someone knowleagble here could tell me if they think the V281 listed at around £1600 and V220 at £1300 are worth buying at these prices brand new? Have these prices been inflated as of late or have they always stayed as high as this? I'm not asking if these amps are subjectively worth the asking price but the price compared to when these amps were first released. The V200 brand new for example is about €1000 yet when it first came out it was less I believe. Would of thought it would be cheaper now.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I paid 1500 euros for a new V280 several months ago. I don't know what your prices for the V280 are but it seems it would cost little more than the V200 (I think you meant 200, not 220) and the V280 is twice the amp the V200 is, so no-brainer to go for the V280. I didn't like the form-factor of the V281 but the amp is even stronger than the V280 because of its power supply, but I believe other than that it is the same topology as the V280 (which in turn is 2xV200).

 

[sahmen]

So what are the main advantages of messing with the gain settings on the V281? I'm asking because ever since I got mine, I have taken a kind of minimalist "if-not-broke-don't-fix-it" approach to it, and left those settings alone at the default "unity gain," where they were when I purchased the unit, about 4 years ago. Of course, it has also been easy for me to take that approach, because the unit has been able to drive all the cans I have thrown at it since then, from that unity gain setting, without my having to over-stress or under-stress it in any way.

I mean that it has driven notoriously hard to drive, or "amp-picky" cans, from the Audeze LCD-4 (200 ohms), through the Sennheiser HD800, to even the Hifiman He-6, on the one hand, and on the other, more efficient (and easier to please) cans/iems, such as the Hifiman Edition X V2, or the HeKSE, not to mention the Audeze LCDi4 or LCD-X, and done so also quite comfortably, without generating any unwanted noise, or any side effect I need to worry about. I will not go into its service as a pre-amp for driving a 2-channel speaker system, which I have also loved from day one. Suffice it to say that leaving gain settings untouched has really served me well, providing a level of versatility, reliability, and stability in performance for 4 straight and flawless years, without a single hiccup, 4 years, for which I am very grateful, and will always be.

Lately, however, I have been asking myself whether the unit's performance could have been any better if I had experimented with different gain settings for some of these different headphones, and I have not been able to answer definitively in the negative, simply because I have not really done any experiments myself to eliminate either an affirmative or negative answer to that question... Still, I wanted to pose the question to the forum and find out if anyone has, and found a response either way.... The question is relatively simple:

Can any pair of headphones, which plays or performs acceptably well at unity gain on the V281, up its game in sound quality and performance, if played at a different gain settings on this same amp? If so, can the results of the experiment be repeatable to others in controlled circumstances, in order to eliminate the influence of typical illusions produced by well-known factors such as placebo or confirmation bias? Any helpful contributions or thoughts would be welcome.