[actionfinger]

So, you didn’t leave much worlds for the 850. Do you prefer the other over the Violectric DAC?
The V850 is the only one with resampling option. Do you think it’s something you need to have?
I will explain what i expect from a new dac..
the Clear for example is by far not the widest and deepest headphone. I hope that I can create a better room and imaging.
I heard a stax L700.. o boy what an experience. I hope there is a planar on the marked that can do nearly the same.
But for now, i want my headphones that I own to do better.

 

[Fegefeuer]

Focals have precise imaging but the image is small. It's why I never wanted one.

If you want bigger go for the HD800, Arya, HEKSE (@Empyah could say something) etc

With the Focal I would pick Bifrost 2, V850, Yggdrasil Analog 2 as they have the best tone for it.

I like the V850 but I like the Bifrost 2 more. I wish the Bifrost 2 had the same features, VXCO, AES in etc, but then it would need a bigger case, board etc and would be over 1k.

 

[actionfinger]

Perhaps I have to wait till the new lineup is available. The V800 dropped around 500€ when the 850 came out.
Did you hear any of those good measured DACs at audiosciencereview and compared them to the much higher priced ones?

 

[Fegefeuer]

Yes, and I don't like them. Only the Matrix as stated above. Don't like the RME either. I don't find analog design to be somewhat their forté. Matrix is great. They put a lot of effort into their designs.

I would never buy these memey me-too DACs and all the topping I heard was not worthy. Edgy, stripped off sound, lacking nuances. I guess it's easy to convince people that only listen to anime music and weird electronica. This stuff falls apart once real instruments kick in. And yes, I listen to a lot of electronic music.

Also all these DACs are designed "by paper". There is not much afterthought. It sells though and it measures very well, at least within the methodology

Got quite a few fanatics of them in my surroundings. People get easily attention with DAC Chip naming and buzzwords.

As for THX amps. I find all these amps dead sounding and without character. I'd only consider the Benchmark HPA4 because their approach is always outstanding and highly evolved.

However either Niimbus US4+ or HPA V5XX will get my attention. Looking forward to compare V590 vs. V281.

 

[Simple Man]

I wait, for now, , till I find a nice priced v850.
Difficult yo find at this moment.
someone maybe?

 

[Fegefeuer]

Here is one

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/violectric-dac-v850/1181588092-172-8046

 

[project86]

Also keep en eye out for the older V800, I feel like they maybe they are (or were) out there in greater numbers than V850. And being older, the price generally goes lower on the second hand market. They still have excellent sound, very neutral and clean without being shouty, overly dry, or boring.

V800 is obsolete as far as USB goes, but great USB to SPDIF conversion gets cheaper by the month, so it's easy to bridge that gap. I've seen V800 go for around $500, and with a good DDC being another $100-200.

 

[Simple Man]

Here is one

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/violectric-dac-v850/1181588092-172-8046

Thanks!
seen them cheaper but see what he want to do.

 

[Simple Man]

Also keep en eye out for the older V800, I feel like they maybe they are (or were) out there in greater numbers than V850. And being older, the price generally goes lower on the second hand market. They still have excellent sound, very neutral and clean without being shouty, overly dry, or boring.

V800 is obsolete as far as USB goes, but great USB to SPDIF conversion gets cheaper by the month, so it's easy to bridge that gap. I've seen V800 go for around $500, and with a good DDC being another $100-200.

older dacs ment, in the old days, seriously worse, old technics etc?
If this is not the case it could be a good option.
I didn’t understand the usb/ddc part. Can you explain?
thanks.

 

[Malcolm Riverside]

older dacs ment, in the old days, seriously worse, old technics etc?
If this is not the case it could be a good option.
I didn’t understand the usb/ddc part. Can you explain?
thanks.

Simplest way to explain the problem with dacs and USB is that USB transmits a lot of electrical noise (aka jitter) from one’s computer, which can make its way subtly but noticeably into the analog output of a dac, thus degrading audio quality from an amp. It’s easy to get deeeeeppp in the weeds on this topic! Folks much, much more knowledgable than me have weighed in on this for years all over the internet if you want to go down that rabbit hole. But don’t say I didn’t warn you!

 

[Simple Man]

Ok jitter. I remember, those where the days, first cd player, Sharp, 1/2 sampling etc, drama.
usb is nice to have but not the main connection so not really to worry about.
but sound/stage/detail wise, is the 800 less, really less, than the 850?

 

[project86]

Yes V800 is similar to V850 in many ways, as far as I recall the entire analog stage is nearly identical, as is much of the digital section. V800 used a single Texas Instruments PCM1792 DAC chip while the V850 used a pair of PCM1795 chips - which are newer but also lower in the TI range. The 1792 was their flagship chip and has superior specs (signal to noise, distortion, stop band attenuation, etc). Since V850 uses two of the "lesser" chips in dual mono mode, it's probably a wash, but the point is they aren't far in performance.

The main upgrade was the USB section, which was substantially improved in V850. But if you use SPDIF from your transport, or an external DDC, then it doesn't matter.

DDC stands for Digital to Digital Converter, also sometimes called USB Bridge or other names. Basically they allow one to benefit from the newest USB receiver technology, and convert that signal to SPDIF which any old DAC can make use of. So even an ancient but fun DAC from the 1990's can be used with USB audio, using a DDC to bridge the gap. Hence adding one to the V800 would negate the main improvement brought by V850. Or, you could just use coaxial etc and skip USB if you wish.

Not trying to talk you out of a V850 by any means, just throwing out another option. There's also the less expensive Lake People DAC RS 06 which is another similar option to look for.

 

[Fegefeuer]

You could also just build a Raspberry Pi with various HATS to choose from and create your own transport

 

[Simple Man]

Yes V800 is similar to V850 in many ways, as far as I recall the entire analog stage is nearly identical, as is much of the digital section. V800 used a single Texas Instruments PCM1792 DAC chip while the V850 used a pair of PCM1795 chips - which are newer but also lower in the TI range. The 1792 was their flagship chip and has superior specs (signal to noise, distortion, stop band attenuation, etc). Since V850 uses two of the "lesser" chips in dual mono mode, it's probably a wash, but the point is they aren't far in performance.

The main upgrade was the USB section, which was substantially improved in V850. But if you use SPDIF from your transport, or an external DDC, then it doesn't matter.

DDC stands for Digital to Digital Converter, also sometimes called USB Bridge or other names. Basically they allow one to benefit from the newest USB receiver technology, and convert that signal to SPDIF which any old DAC can make use of. So even an ancient but fun DAC from the 1990's can be used with USB audio, using a DDC to bridge the gap. Hence adding one to the V800 would negate the main improvement brought by V850. Or, you could just use coaxial etc and skip USB if you wish.

Not trying to talk you out of a V850 by any means, just throwing out another option. There's also the less expensive Lake People DAC RS 06 which is another similar option to look for.

THANK YOU for the explanation. Very helpful.
makes it worth looking for an 800. Even een RS06.

 

[Simple Man]

You could also just build a Raspberry Pi with various HATS to choose from and create your own transport

Sorry. No. I can’t.