Using full sized integrated amp

[pp312]

What is an Outlaw 2150?

 

[Frank I]

Its a 100 watt receiver made by Outlaw audio,

 

[Headdie]

With a headphone volume control, I suppose it has a dedicated headphone amp section... It also feature a pre-out you can try with your phones... And with a tape loop you can hook a tube buffer in it... Definitly an interesting machine !

 

[Headdie]

Anybody knows what's the DAC inside this Outlaw ?

 

[tfarney]

Just to fan the flames of heresy and assure that my credibility remains the lowest on the board:

I have tried my Senn HD580s, Audio Technicas and Etymotics in numerous integrateds and receivers -- vintage and modern, stereo and AV -- and in numerous dedicated HP amps -- tube and ss, desktop and portable -- and I find the differences between the amps to be subtle at best. Some of them would be hard to differentiate at all in a proper A/B test. This even goes for little op amp circuits in cdps and computers. I have one computer here that is noisy, one portable player that is too weak for the Senns, but the rest are all pretty close unless you're driving a weak amp too hard (clipping). The principles are simple: If you have an amp with reasonably low noise, wide bandwidth, appropriate output impedance and plenty of headroom to properly drive the load in question, it will, for the most part. Everything else is sweating the small stuff.

That's not to say that there is no difference between the headphone jack of my iRiver portable cdp and a Xanadu, but at the same volume, even that it is the small stuff. The big stuff is in the recording, mastering and transducers. Always has been. Audiophiles live in the incremental differences that most music lovers don't even notice. Ever notice how when one of us raves about the huge night and day difference between X and Y, how until he found the GodBrick ET4-6 Plus, music wasn't musical and everything was grey and dead, that the civilians, even great music-loving civilians, all roll their eyes? That's because they not only don't care about what he is blowing way out of proportion, they don't hear it. At all. So you've got to ask yourself: How big can differences we have to train ourselves to hear (or talk ourselves into) be?

Not so big. Make sure you have enough good clean watts for the job. Plug in. Enjoy the music.

Tim

 

[estreeter]

Tim, I guess my Yamaha HT receiver must be a piece of crap - if you couldnt tell the difference between that and my CA 340A SE in a DBT, I would happily run naked through the Brisbane CBD this weekend. Both cost the same amount of money, but only one has a headphone out that is a total afterthought. The Yamaha is fine with TV and games (through speakers) but I wont be plugging anything into the headphone jack again.

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tim, I guess my Yamaha HT receiver must be a piece of crap - if you couldnt tell the difference between that and my CA 340A SE in a DBT, I would happily run naked through the Brisbane CBD this weekend. Both cost the same amount of money, but only one has a headphone out that is a total afterthought. The Yamaha is fine with TV and games (through speakers) but I wont be plugging anything into the headphone jack again.

I prefer the sound of my ES3X in combination with my Pico DAC/amp much better than straight out of my iMac, or iPhone. The iPhone, btw, is preferable, and sounds pretty good, but I just prefer the sound of my Pico.

I'm looking at the DNA Sonnett or the Woo Audio W6 next. My own personal experience with "big rig" stuff tells me there is a significant difference between amps, and how they contribute to the overall sound, and therefore musical enjoyment. I agree with Tim--and quoting from another Internet reviewer--that, "...in the end all that matters is that we 'Enjoy the Music.'"

 

[tfarney]

Again, I'm not saying that there are no differences between amps, headphone or otherwise. What I'm saying is that the differences are blown way out of proportion by people who are obsessed with them, unnoticed by those who are not, and that if you really want a "night and day" transformation of your listening experience you need to change transducers or be prepared to talk yourself into it.

I've heard quite a few Yamaha AV receiver headphone jacks, and I've heard some CAs. I won't be setting up and A/B/X, because I don't want to see you naked.

Tim

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not so big. Make sure you have enough good clean watts for the job. Tim

That's where my Pioneer amplifier and my NAD preamp can't compete with my XCAN. But sure, there are amplifiers that can compete, other people claim.... I just don't have one of them
( At lower volumes though, I think it's more a matter of taste which one to pick )

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to fan the flames of heresy and assure that my credibility remains the lowest on the board: I have tried my Senn HD580s, Audio Technicas and Etymotics in numerous integrateds and receivers -- vintage and modern, stereo and AV -- and in numerous dedicated HP amps -- tube and ss, desktop and portable -- and I find the differences between the amps to be subtle at best.

Tim, I don't normally quote myself from thread to thread, but your sentiments are so close to mine of a few days ago in a thread about Cambridge amps that I just can't help myself. In fact it's uncanny:

"My position is this: People say they heard A amp in a shop and then listened to B amp at a mate's place and it was clear A amp had a less compressed soundstage and clearer treble. Frankly, I don't buy it. The difference between well-designed amps--and most name brands are well-designed--is quite subtle and difficult to pick even A/B-ing with the same material. The idea that one can listen in different venues with different CDs and pick clear differences is preposterous. I cite a post above:

Moonboy: 'As for Onkyo receiver, I listened to the K501 that I had with a HT-R640 and it was noticeably muddier and soundstage was compressed in contrast to the Audiotailor Jade that I used at the time. Admittedly though, I did not a/b them but those two traits jumped out at me when I listened.'

I'm not picking on Moonboy, this is a typical post, but I don't believe "those two traits jumped out at me when I listened". Even when A/B-ing, most traits are too subtle to "jump out" at one. And if Moonboy were to do that comparison again, under different circumstances with different CDs, he very likely would come to a different conclusion, but in the meantime people have picked up on his comments and maybe even based a buying decision on them. This is where we have to be careful: auditory memory is notoriously unreliable. It's like when you buy a new audio toy and think, "Wow, this sounds just great. A definite keeper," then next day you listen and think, "Hell, I thought it sounded better than this. Bugger." There's illusions in our conclusions--he he."

Great minds really do think alike.

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anybody knows what's the DAC inside this Outlaw ?

no dac

 

[Jeff E]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank I /img/forum/go_quote.gif no dac

Then how does it accept a USB (digital) input?

Quote:

•USB input for playback of streaming audio output from compatible computers

from the Outlaw site page describing the 2150

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Great minds really do think alike.

Great or warped, depending on your POV.

Tim

 

[KonstantinT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headdie /img/forum/go_quote.gif With a headphone volume control, I suppose it has a dedicated headphone amp section...

Hello!
I hear mainly vinyl and mostly via Headphones. Many people still praise the Yamaha C-4 preamplifier (from the 1970´s) for its superbe phono input. I like vintage hifi and there are many of them on Ebay.
The Yamaha C4 has a dedicated volume control for the headphones output, so it has probably a dedicated headphones amp. Can I expect that it is better than the "dedicated hp amps" in many sources like CD players?
Thanks for any experience or advise!
Konstantin

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonstantinT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello! The Yamaha C4 has a dedicated volume control for the headphones output, so it has probably a dedicated headphones amp. Can I expect that it is better than the "dedicated hp amps" in many sources like CD players? Thanks for any experience or advise! Konstantin

I would expect it (but I have not heard it) - how about having good listen and tell us what you hear?
(what headphone will you use?)


Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, I'm not saying that there are no differences between amps, headphone or otherwise. What I'm saying is that the differences are blown way out of proportion by people who are obsessed with them, unnoticed by those who are not, and that if you really want a "night and day" transformation of your listening experience you need to change transducers or be prepared to talk yourself into it. Tim

In my experience, the proportions depend on the cans. Some of my cans are colored more by the amp than others.