[KuroKitsu]

FATfreq Maestro SE

My journey to customs.


Customs MSE (left) and Universals MSE (right)

Why you may ask did I switch to customs on the MSE? I have always wondered what the fuss was all about and why some people swear by it. I was also curious how a form fitting iem would feel like in my ears and ultimately how this would impact the sound.

TL;DR: Customs, if they fit, or once you are accustomed to it (pun intended), disappear into your ears. It becomes a part of you. They do not require tips to provide a seal and are more comfortable. Sound wise, I perceive an improvement in the sound both in-terms of note weight and resolution. Yes, it is not night and day, but once you hear it, it is difficult to go back to universals. Having said that, the mind is a wonderous thing and once you let them adjust, you get used to the "different" sound. I have heard people complain that the MSE is mid-bass light and muddy, treble was grating and that it generally "sucked ass". If anything, I find that customs MSE addresses these issues. I am not surprised at this since MSE was designed first as a customs iem. People also forget that the iem was designed to be a head-thumping iem. A bass cannon. With this much colour added into the mix, it is bound to be both fun as well as controversial. I am not saying I agree with those views. In fact I do love universals MSE precisely because it has such a unique tuning. Would it be a desert island iem for me? No. But it is a guilty pleasure and if I could bring two iems to the desert island, it would be the one I bring. With the custom MSE on the other hand, it would be in the mix to be considered as my desert island iem!

Why did I choose the MSE over all my other iems to go customs? No particular reason. In early of August this year, I happened to be chatting with Yeo from FF over WhatsApp. I had initially met Yeo at the last Singapore CanJam (2023). I had wanted to chat with him as he had just joined FF and wanted to see how he was doing. The conversation soon veered towards my love for the universals MSE and whether customs would sound different. I had recalled that Bobby (@aaf evo) had said that his customs MSE sounded fuller and he preferred it over universals and this got me curious. He also said that universals to customs MSE conversion was a positive upgrade as there was no sibilance in the customs which he would occasionally get on the universals. One thing led to another and Yeo suggested that if I was interested, I could visit him at FF HQ and he would take my impressions. I always felt the process of making a custom iem was too complicated. Yeo's offer made it within easy reach. He said it would only take about an hour to complete the process and I could have my universals converted to customs. The added bonus was he would give me a tour of FF! I thought to myself, why not and took the plunge.


Yeo and myself at FF HQ.

In the end it took more than an hour as He had to make two impressions as the first one did not make the cut. Errrr, too much earwax! Apologies for the details! It was weird at first as you have a large syringe stuck into your ear canals and then have something gooey injected in. You also have to bite on something to prevent your mouth /jaws from moving too much which could negatively impact the accuracy of the impressions. I can't remember how long I had to sit still but I was given a selection of faceplates to browse so the time passed fairly quickly.


Profile picture of me wating for the impressions to set (left) and picture of the failed first impressions (right).

I mentioned previously that this would be a conversion of my universal MSE to customs. About a month after FF took my impressions, Yeo contacted me to say that FF had discussed internally and preferred instead of a conversion from universals to customs, that they would build me a new customs instead. There would be no extra cost from what I already paid for the conversion. In exchange, they asked if I would write my impressions about the process and if I would do a comparison between the universal and customs and also give my impressions about the sound differences if any. I thought that this would be a great opportunity and agreed to this and hence this post! All in it took about two months to complete the build and I could not be happier. At first, I felt some pressure in my right ear but my ears have since adjusted to the fit and it is painless.

Sound wise I could not be happier. I love MSE and with the universals, I was already addicted, especially with the bass. Yes, the highlight is with the sub-bass but it is evident only when the music calls for it. Otherwise, it gets out of the way and does not have any impact on the overall sound. But when the music calls for it, it springs into action and it just envelopes you! It is very addicting! An example of this is the final movement of St-Saens Symphony No. 3. When the pipe organ plays the low notes, you can feel the rumble and it is so satisfying. No other iem that I have gives this level of impact and when I hear this piece on any other iem, it feels like something is missing.

How does the customs differ from the universals? More note weight across the frequencies but especially in the mids. There is more resolution. You feel like the music is enveloping you and you are front and centre of the musicians. Whereas with universals, it felt like you were observing from a distance. Whatever shortcomings the universals had in my view is addressed in the customs. I am in love! If you love your MSE and were wondering if customs could improve the sound, I would confirm that it does. In my view, It improves an already good iem and makes it great! I struggle to find any shortcomings but they may be one. It is the case of too much of a good thing and this is the case with customs MSE. For me this is ok as I have other iems that I can use to "cleanse the palate" so to speak.

In terms of the chain, I am using both iems single ended with stock cable and stock tips on the universals. Both have been burnt in for over 400hrs. I am listening to a variety of music (pop, jazz, classical) through Roon into Chord TT2 as my DAC in pre-amp mode into McIntosh MHA200 tube amplifier.


Close up of the universals MSE (left) and close up of my customs MSE (right).

Hope you found this useful! Thanks for reading!

Those faceplates look amazing!

I'm still not shoving anything in my ears with bass like that though Good try though

 

[yaps66]

I assume you're setting the load to 32Ω and setting the gain to unity?

Yes, especially for MSE. For a slightly different and more intense presentation, I would set the load at 100Ω and the gain to 1pm. This can get too intense though so for the most part, 32 unto unity!

 

[Rockwell75]

FATfreq Maestro SE

My journey to customs.


Customs MSE (left) and Universals MSE (right)

Why you may ask did I switch to customs on the MSE? I have always wondered what the fuss was all about and why some people swear by it. I was also curious how a form fitting iem would feel like in my ears and ultimately how this would impact the sound.

TL;DR: Customs, if they fit, or once you are accustomed to it (pun intended), disappear into your ears. It becomes a part of you. They do not require tips to provide a seal and are more comfortable. Sound wise, I perceive an improvement in the sound both in-terms of note weight and resolution. Yes, it is not night and day, but once you hear it, it is difficult to go back to universals. Having said that, the mind is a wonderous thing and once you let them adjust, you get used to the "different" sound. I have heard people complain that the MSE is mid-bass light and muddy, treble was grating and that it generally "sucked ass". If anything, I find that customs MSE addresses these issues. I am not surprised at this since MSE was designed first as a customs iem. People also forget that the iem was designed to be a head-thumping iem. A bass cannon. With this much colour added into the mix, it is bound to be both fun as well as controversial. I am not saying I agree with those views. In fact I do love universals MSE precisely because it has such a unique tuning. Would it be a desert island iem for me? No. But it is a guilty pleasure and if I could bring two iems to the desert island, it would be the one I bring. With the custom MSE on the other hand, it would be in the mix to be considered as my desert island iem!

Why did I choose the MSE over all my other iems to go customs? No particular reason. In early of August this year, I happened to be chatting with Yeo from FF over WhatsApp. I had initially met Yeo at the last Singapore CanJam (2023). I had wanted to chat with him as he had just joined FF and wanted to see how he was doing. The conversation soon veered towards my love for the universals MSE and whether customs would sound different. I had recalled that Bobby (@aaf evo) had said that his customs MSE sounded fuller and he preferred it over universals and this got me curious. He also said that universals to customs MSE conversion was a positive upgrade as there was no sibilance in the customs which he would occasionally get on the universals. One thing led to another and Yeo suggested that if I was interested, I could visit him at FF HQ and he would take my impressions. I always felt the process of making a custom iem was too complicated. Yeo's offer made it within easy reach. He said it would only take about an hour to complete the process and I could have my universals converted to customs. The added bonus was he would give me a tour of FF! I thought to myself, why not and took the plunge.


Yeo and myself at FF HQ.

In the end it took more than an hour as He had to make two impressions as the first one did not make the cut. Errrr, too much earwax! Apologies for the details! It was weird at first as you have a large syringe stuck into your ear canals and then have something gooey injected in. You also have to bite on something to prevent your mouth /jaws from moving too much which could negatively impact the accuracy of the impressions. I can't remember how long I had to sit still but I was given a selection of faceplates to browse so the time passed fairly quickly.


Profile picture of me wating for the impressions to set (left) and picture of the failed first impressions (right).

I mentioned previously that this would be a conversion of my universal MSE to customs. About a month after FF took my impressions, Yeo contacted me to say that FF had discussed internally and preferred instead of a conversion from universals to customs, that they would build me a new customs instead. There would be no extra cost from what I already paid for the conversion. In exchange, they asked if I would write my impressions about the process and if I would do a comparison between the universal and customs and also give my impressions about the sound differences if any. I thought that this would be a great opportunity and agreed to this and hence this post! All in it took about two months to complete the build and I could not be happier. At first, I felt some pressure in my right ear but my ears have since adjusted to the fit and it is painless.

Sound wise I could not be happier. I love MSE and with the universals, I was already addicted, especially with the bass. Yes, the highlight is with the sub-bass but it is evident only when the music calls for it. Otherwise, it gets out of the way and does not have any impact on the overall sound. But when the music calls for it, it springs into action and it just envelopes you! It is very addicting! An example of this is the final movement of St-Saens Symphony No. 3. When the pipe organ plays the low notes, you can feel the rumble and it is so satisfying. No other iem that I have gives this level of impact and when I hear this piece on any other iem, it feels like something is missing.

How does the customs differ from the universals? More note weight across the frequencies but especially in the mids. There is more resolution. You feel like the music is enveloping you and you are front and centre of the musicians. Whereas with universals, it felt like you were observing from a distance. Whatever shortcomings the universals had in my view is addressed in the customs. I am in love! If you love your MSE and were wondering if customs could improve the sound, I would confirm that it does. In my view, It improves an already good iem and makes it great! I struggle to find any shortcomings but they may be one. It is the case of too much of a good thing and this is the case with customs MSE. For me this is ok as I have other iems that I can use to "cleanse the palate" so to speak.

In terms of the chain, I am using both iems single ended with stock cable and stock tips on the universals. Both have been burnt in for over 400hrs. I am listening to a variety of music (pop, jazz, classical) through Roon into Chord TT2 as my DAC in pre-amp mode into McIntosh MHA200 tube amplifier.


Close up of the universals MSE (left) and close up of my customs MSE (right).

Hope you found this useful! Thanks for reading!

Epic post! I've still yet to cross the threshold into customs though I'm quite tempted to take that leap with the Bonneville.

 

[yaps66]

Those faceplates look amazing!

I'm still not shoving anything in my ears with bass like that though Good try though

Yes. I do love the dragon like effect! I know what you mean by not shoving things in so deep but without those silicone tips, you don't notice it!

 

[yaps66]

Epic post! I've still yet to cross the threshold into customs though I'm quite tempted to take that leap with the Bonneville.

Thanks Jeff! I too was fearful of crossing the line. Now that I have done it, I am left wondering why I did not do it earlier!

 

[Benno1988]

I have heard people complain that the MSE is mid-bass light and muddy, treble was grating and that it generally "sucked ass"

Amen

 

[warrenpchi]

For a slightly different and more intense presentation, I would set the load at 100Ω and the gain to 1pm.

lol, a.k.a. Skrillex mode.

Those faceplates look amazing!

I'm still not shoving anything in my ears with bass like that though Good try though

Yes. I do love the dragon like effect! I know what you mean by not shoving things in so deep but without those silicone tips, you don't notice it!

@KuroKitsu, you really don't notice anything in your canal, really. You'll feel them infinitely more in your outer pinnae, where the monitors latch into ears.

Epic post! I've still yet to cross the threshold into customs though I'm quite tempted to take that leap with the Bonneville.

Thanks Jeff! I too was fearful of crossing the line. Now that I have done it, I am left wondering why I did do it earlier!

@Rockwell75, I think you'd truly enjoy them. Just do it with something that you intend to keep forever, as customs have only a hint, a mere suggestion, of resale value.

 

[Rockwell75]

Thanks Jeff! I too was fearful of crossing the line. Now that I have done it, I am left wondering why I did do it earlier!

For me it was always a commitment issue compounded by the difficulty in getting impressions etc. Bonneville is a great choice for me as 1) it won't break the bank and 2) CFA is a local company for me which means warranty/fit issues will be easy to deal with and 3) it's emerging as possibly my favorite IEM that is presently available as a custom.

 

[KuroKitsu]

Yes. I do love the dragon like effect! I know what you mean by not shoving things in so deep but without those silicone tips, you don't notice it!

@KuroKitsu, you really don't notice anything in your canal, really. You'll feel them infinitely more in your outer pinnae, where the monitors latch into ears.

I have tried the customs experience, more a play at the MSE's enormous bass and customs having better bass in general. My eardrums arn't ready

 

[Valrhona]

Thanks Jeff! I too was fearful of crossing the line. Now that I have done it, I am left wondering why I did do it earlier!

A man wonders how do they feel during long listening sessions.

 

[osocan]

FATfreq Maestro SE

My journey to customs.


Customs MSE (left) and Universals MSE (right)

Why you may ask did I switch to customs on the MSE? I have always wondered what the fuss was all about and why some people swear by it. I was also curious how a form fitting iem would feel like in my ears and ultimately how this would impact the sound.

TL;DR: Customs, if they fit, or once you are accustomed to it (pun intended), disappear into your ears. It becomes a part of you. They do not require tips to provide a seal and are more comfortable. Sound wise, I perceive an improvement in the sound both in-terms of note weight and resolution. Yes, it is not night and day, but once you hear it, it is difficult to go back to universals. Having said that, the mind is a wonderous thing and once you let them adjust, you get used to the "different" sound. I have heard people complain that the MSE is mid-bass light and muddy, treble was grating and that it generally "sucked ass". If anything, I find that customs MSE addresses these issues. I am not surprised at this since MSE was designed first as a customs iem. People also forget that the iem was designed to be a head-thumping iem. A bass cannon. With this much colour added into the mix, it is bound to be both fun as well as controversial. I am not saying I agree with those views. In fact I do love universals MSE precisely because it has such a unique tuning. Would it be a desert island iem for me? No. But it is a guilty pleasure and if I could bring two iems to the desert island, it would be the one I bring. With the custom MSE on the other hand, it would be in the mix to be considered as my desert island iem!

Why did I choose the MSE over all my other iems to go customs? No particular reason. In early of August this year, I happened to be chatting with Yeo from FF over WhatsApp. I had initially met Yeo at the last Singapore CanJam (2023). I had wanted to chat with him as he had just joined FF and wanted to see how he was doing. The conversation soon veered towards my love for the universals MSE and whether customs would sound different. I had recalled that Bobby (@aaf evo) had said that his customs MSE sounded fuller and he preferred it over universals and this got me curious. He also said that universals to customs MSE conversion was a positive upgrade as there was no sibilance in the customs which he would occasionally get on the universals. One thing led to another and Yeo suggested that if I was interested, I could visit him at FF HQ and he would take my impressions. I always felt the process of making a custom iem was too complicated. Yeo's offer made it within easy reach. He said it would only take about an hour to complete the process and I could have my universals converted to customs. The added bonus was he would give me a tour of FF! I thought to myself, why not and took the plunge.


Yeo and myself at FF HQ.

In the end it took more than an hour as He had to make two impressions as the first one did not make the cut. Errrr, too much earwax! Apologies for the details! It was weird at first as you have a large syringe stuck into your ear canals and then have something gooey injected in. You also have to bite on something to prevent your mouth /jaws from moving too much which could negatively impact the accuracy of the impressions. I can't remember how long I had to sit still but I was given a selection of faceplates to browse so the time passed fairly quickly.


Profile picture of me wating for the impressions to set (left) and picture of the failed first impressions (right).

I mentioned previously that this would be a conversion of my universal MSE to customs. About a month after FF took my impressions, Yeo contacted me to say that FF had discussed internally and preferred instead of a conversion from universals to customs, that they would build me a new customs instead. There would be no extra cost from what I already paid for the conversion. In exchange, they asked if I would write my impressions about the process and if I would do a comparison between the universal and customs and also give my impressions about the sound differences if any. I thought that this would be a great opportunity and agreed to this and hence this post! All in it took about two months to complete the build and I could not be happier. At first, I felt some pressure in my right ear but my ears have since adjusted to the fit and it is painless.

Sound wise I could not be happier. I love MSE and with the universals, I was already addicted, especially with the bass. Yes, the highlight is with the sub-bass but it is evident only when the music calls for it. Otherwise, it gets out of the way and does not have any impact on the overall sound. But when the music calls for it, it springs into action and it just envelopes you! It is very addicting! An example of this is the final movement of St-Saens Symphony No. 3. When the pipe organ plays the low notes, you can feel the rumble and it is so satisfying. No other iem that I have gives this level of impact and when I hear this piece on any other iem, it feels like something is missing.

How does the customs differ from the universals? More note weight across the frequencies but especially in the mids. There is more resolution. You feel like the music is enveloping you and you are front and centre of the musicians. Whereas with universals, it felt like you were observing from a distance. Whatever shortcomings the universals had in my view is addressed in the customs. I am in love! If you love your MSE and were wondering if customs could improve the sound, I would confirm that it does. In my view, It improves an already good iem and makes it great! I struggle to find any shortcomings but they may be one. It is the case of too much of a good thing and this is the case with customs MSE. For me this is ok as I have other iems that I can use to "cleanse the palate" so to speak.

In terms of the chain, I am using both iems single ended with stock cable and stock tips on the universals. Both have been burnt in for over 400hrs. I am listening to a variety of music (pop, jazz, classical) through Roon into Chord TT2 as my DAC in pre-amp mode into McIntosh MHA200 tube amplifier.


Close up of the universals MSE (left) and close up of my customs MSE (right).

Hope you found this useful! Thanks for reading!

Great write-up! And beautiful faceplates for the customs.

I visited FF in Sep and Yeo was the one attending to me. He recommended that I go custom as well but I wasn’t sure as well - what if I end up not liking it? That day I walked away with the Scarlet Mini pre-order instead.

Your post has now piqued my interest and broken down most of my reluctance against customs. After all the MSE is at a price point where I could stomach the risks. When time comes to collect my Scarlet Mini, I will speak with Yeo again.

Thank you for such an encouraging write-up!

PS from what I learned from Yeo, FF will keep your impressions digitally for the next 2-3 years. You may not need to get it done again if you’re ordering another custom from them in that period.

 

[gLer]

A man wonders how do they feel during long listening sessions.

I can listen to customs all day. That said, I can listen to good-fitting universals all day too. The trick with customs is a) getting excellent moulds, and b) getting excellent fit. If either of those two aren't 100%, you'll be going back and forth to adjust the fit which, if you factor in shipping costs and time, can be very costly and protracted.

To balance the scales consider this when it comes to customs:

1. Resale is more difficult. Even if the company reshells, it will cost you (or the buyer) and you'll generally lose more money on a custom reshell. Personally, if I'm getting a custom, it's a commitment for life (or the long term), unless the monetary loss is irrelevant.

2. Comfort depends on a perfect fit (see above).

3. You lose the sound tweaking ability of tip swaps. This can be a pro or a con, but once you go custom, the sound is the sound. You can still cable swap of course.

4. Maintenance is important. There's no tip and usually no mesh covering the nozzle, so you need to be careful to maintain the customs and clean them regularly.

All that said, a good pair of customs that fit perfectly and sound great become and extension of your ear, and feel effortless to use. Just know that it's not always sunshine and rainbows.

 

[emdeevee]

A man wonders how do they feel during long listening sessions.

A man could fall asleep with CIEM that is fitted properly.

 

[Valrhona]

I can listen to customs all day. That said, I can listen to good-fitting universals all day too. The trick with customs is a) getting excellent moulds, and b) getting excellent fit. If either of those two aren't 100%, you'll be going back and forth to adjust the fit which, if you factor in shipping costs and time, can be very costly and protracted.

To balance the scales consider this when it comes to customs:

1. Resale is more difficult. Even if the company reshells, it will cost you (or the buyer) and you'll generally lose more money on a custom reshell. Personally, if I'm getting a custom, it's a commitment for life (or the long term), unless the monetary loss is irrelevant.

2. Comfort depends on a perfect fit (see above).

3. You lose the sound tweaking ability of tip swaps. This can be a pro or a con, but once you go custom, the sound is the sound. You can still cable swap of course.

4. Maintenance is important. There's no tip and usually no mesh covering the nozzle, so you need to be careful to maintain the customs and clean them regularly.

All that said, a good pair of customs that fit perfectly and sound great become and extension of your ear, and feel effortless to use. Just know that it's not always sunshine and rainbows.

Good points to take note of. Thanks for sharing.

 

[yaps66]

A man wonders how do they feel during long listening sessions.

As I said, I could feel some tenderness in my right ear initially. After a week of extensive use, the pain disappeared and I can listen to these for hours without issue.