[RTodd]

Maybe W shaped might be a better way to describe it as if anything what's being described here seems to affect the upper mids more than the lower and U-shape to me implies the entirety of the midrange being subservient to the bass and treble. IE900 to me is a classic example of a u-shaped IEM...the EXT is not like this to my ears. I have some homework to do and a class to attend but afterwards I'll listen to the track @RTodd recommended and report back.

Here is another track that does not go as high but has bombastic bass going on, and multiple singers even some male talking.

Kristy MacColl
Walking Down Madison
Off of Electric Landlady

 

[Rockwell75]

Here is another track that does not go as high but has bombastic bass going on, and multiple singers even some male talking.

Kristy MacColl
Walking Down Madison
Off of Electric Landlady

Thanks I'll check that out in a few hours when I have more time. In the meantime props to Amin & Marcel for this thank-you note and kick-a$$ piece of VE swag they gifted me. Pure class.

 

[MatW]

Lol… I’m guessing that’s for spoken word rather than singing? Does seem a bit too low

I looked better and yes, those charts are about spoken word..

For singing it appears to be all over the place. But the core vocal frequencies are between 100-300 kHz. And if you listen to a sine sweep, 500 kHz is already pretty high pitched..

 

[gLer]

I looked better and yes, those charts are about spoken word..

For singing it appears to be all over the place. But the core vocal frequencies are between 100-300 kHz. And if you listen to a sine sweep, 500 kHz is already pretty high pitched..

That's more like it. So basically upper mids/lower treble are the potential 'trouble areas' for shoutiness, harshness, and sibilance, whereas excess mid-upper treble can lead to glassiness on some trailing edge harmonics in female vocals. Makes perfect sense to me as previously whenever I thought of 'poor' treble it was always because of these issues in the presentation of female vocals (and treble-centred instruments like splashes, cymbals and hi-hats).

 

[Wyville]

I looked better and yes, those charts are about spoken word..

For singing it appears to be all over the place. But the core vocal frequencies are between 100-300 kHz. And if you listen to a sine sweep, 500 kHz is already pretty high pitched..

Based on that, can you imagine what it sounds like to hear Audrey Luna hit her high note at a staggering 1,760 Hz.

 

[Damz87]

I looked better and yes, those charts are about spoken word..

For singing it appears to be all over the place. But the core vocal frequencies are between 100-300 kHz. And if you listen to a sine sweep, 500 kHz is already pretty high pitched..

Yeah makes sense, the vocal fundamentals would be in those lower registers, with harmonics rising up into the higher frequencies. Thanks for sharing the chart!

 

[Scubadevils]

These have had the bulk of my ear-time today; beautifully musical and engaging, one could forget aspirations for audio nirvana while walking about with zero wires to consider and just enjoying the music! Much better also than my previous Sennheiser TW2. I had them paired to the ZX507 on a walk this morning and can say with certainty that I enjoyed more than previously when cables to consider - plus Sony on Sony just seems to gel. Also, wandering about the house doing some chores made all the more enjoyable. Another 'best' bang for buck purchase, the first of 2022... I was on the fence way too long with these.

 

[Rockwell75]

That's more like it. So basically upper mids/lower treble are the potential 'trouble areas' for shoutiness, harshness, and sibilance

That's how I've always understood it.

I mean you just said you don’t really listen to female vocal based tracks, that’s entirely the frequency area where the EXT is pulled back compared to what a “neutral” upper mid range sounds like which helps create that U shape. So for your music you may not notice it.

Yes a lot of my music is lower mid focused.

Obviously I am not saying you are wrong, I just think describing EXT as mid centric can be misleading.

Fair however just meant that it is more mid-centric than Phonix is to my ears, which is more balanced in its presentation. When I'm listening to Phonix my mind is drawn to the entirety of the spectrum-- bass, mids, treble, the works-- nothing seems to take precedence over anything else on the FR spectrum. It's a bit like Zen Pro in this way. With EXT I find my mind more drawn to the mids when I'm listening to it.

All of this of course is relative to my own music library which as has been mentioned is somewhat bereft of upper-mid focused music.

 

[DunkFealer]

Alright things may have gotten out of hand, it's been 3 hours of listening to Odin, Legend X, DUNU Luna, IER-Z1R, IE900, with occasional swaps to the bird and the Trio. I have over 7 pages worth of notes... This write up cannot happen today lol but it will happen!

Whew, I've now written up my Odin section and I'm realizing that this is going to be a massive post. Hopefully that isn't annoying but I'm having a hard time cutting down length. Maybe it'll get easier once I get to the Z1R/IE900/Legend X since those are easier to understand and describe to me than the Odin or Luna.

 

[Rockwell75]

Spending the last few hours going back and forth between Phonix & EXT I'm reminded of this scene from an old Bond movie. For the record I love both Peking Duck and Russian caviar.

 

[Deezel177]

Don't forget the typical Italian taste too

The main man! To those impressed by what the VE8 and beyond have had to offer, Oliver's a massive, massive part in every single one of those projects. Just as a friend, I'm really happy for him that the EXT and PHoNIX have both received the praise they have from the community. One could call him the Italian Rao.

(Rao is behind Oriolus, and who designed the Trailli, for those who don't know.)

Noted



Wow so you hear it as v-shaped? I don't get that at all. For me with Phonix the vocals were almost embedded in the mix whereas with EXT (on both the M8 & SR25ii) I hear the vocals pulled forward and given a bit of spotlight. The bass on EXT is indeed massive but it doesn't overshadow the mids (here meaning vocals) to my ears.

Edit: Just a reminder that it's still early days for me with both these IEMs...I've had them in my possession for less than 12 hours...so some of my initial impressions may change or be refined in the coming days.

It could be the articulation of the mid-treble that's pulling them a bit further forward than on the PHoNIX. The edge of vocals can have a bit more attack on the EXT, but I'd agree that the vibrance, projection or shape of the vocal tends to be more present on the PHoNIX.

Female and male vocals are relatively close together in the frequency range, and much lower than most here think, I suspect.

I was about to question what part of the male and female voice these were referring to, until you posted the second graph. That one's far more accurate. This one is likely only referring to the fundamental, which is, like, one of at least 6 components of the human voice.

That's more like it. So basically upper mids/lower treble are the potential 'trouble areas' for shoutiness, harshness, and sibilance, whereas excess mid-upper treble can lead to glassiness on some trailing edge harmonics in female vocals. Makes perfect sense to me as previously whenever I thought of 'poor' treble it was always because of these issues in the presentation of female vocals (and treble-centred instruments like splashes, cymbals and hi-hats).

Exactly. I've called mid-treble excess coarseness or powdery-ness in the past; almost as if an hourglass was faintly whish-ing away in the background while the vocalist was recording.

 

[Rockwell75]

The main man! To those impressed by what the VE8 and beyond have had to offer, Oliver's a massive, massive part in every single one of those projects. Just as a friend, I'm really happy for him that the EXT and PHoNIX have both received the praise they have from the community. One could call him the Italian Rao.

The Italian Old Man

+1 to this-- VE and Oriolus occupy the top tier of IEM tuning as far as my perceptions and preferences go.

I'd agree that the vibrance, projection or shape of the vocal tends to be more present on the PHoNIX.

I think EXT's thicker, slower bass compared to Phonix might be behind this. What I don't hear with EXT is the vocals or mids being "behind" the bass-- to me this implies they'd be somewhat veiled or screened by the bass which I do not hear at all.

 

[Deezel177]

The Italian Old Man

+1 to this-- VE and Oriolus occupy the top tier of IEM tuning as far as my perceptions and preferences go.




I think EXT's thicker, slower bass compared to Phonix might be behind this. What I don't hear with EXT is the vocals or mids being "behind" the bass-- to me this implies they'd be somewhat veiled or screened by the bass which I do not hear at all.

Yeah, it definitely could be as well. There's that distinction in overall presentation too. The PHoNIX is all about light, dainty airiness, while the EXT is the rowdier of the two.

 

[cn11]

So I'm now thinking about my late Feb IEM purchase. Penon Legend is in with a shot, thanks to impressions from @ian91 - a long held curiousity for Z1R, recently rekindled by @gLer in the list too - likewise something from Empire Ears, Fir Audio or Aroma. Going to be an interesting 6 weeks while I weigh up the pros and cons and ultimately pull the trigger on something...

And yes I did say I was done for now only a few days ago. This is a u-turn... I'm back to my old mantra of 'life is short, fck it'

Give the Aroma Thunder a try! Fantastic IEM!

 

[Skullar]

Interesting that you find the EXT “mid-centric”, I hear the mid range to sit behind the bass and treble on the EXT whereas the Phonix to me is highlighting the mid range in comparison.

Yeh thought so too. The only way i would say it can happen is if player has anemic bass tuning and smoothed out. Treble.
IMO EXT is in no way mid centric. Its a U shape.

I don't have an SR25ii, but Z1R is superb off an RS6, which has 690mW output at 32ohm/4.4mm. No doubt it'll scale with a desktop-class amp but that doesn't even come into my thinking with an IEM. If EXT is good enough from a fairly high powered DAP like RS6 then it'll be fine. I'm assuming SR25ii is less powerful than RS6 but it's hard to say.

Z1R power requirements are actually quite similar to EXT. They both like power.

Based purely on their graphs, I'd say EXT is much less 'U' than IE900, which is definitely u-shaped by design. If EXT is U it's a very shallow U indeed. I don't hear female vocals as recessed on IE900, so they'll probably sound a touch forward to me in EXT, especially with all that treble energy. IE900 has a much steeper rise from upper mids to mid-treble, so I'd think treble would sound more pronounced on IE900 too. That said there's only so much you can glean off a graph, though relative amplitude would be one thing you can. (doesn't take into account ear anatomy and hearing loss of course - I can't hear anything above 15kHz for instance).

EXTs treble is quite different to IE900 or Z1R. As it has less mid/lower treble peaks and accentuates upper treble. Bass is slightly bigger too i think. But bass is very top sensitive so might be wrong.

Lower mids are more forward than ie900 for sure. But for me IE900 is a V shape just like Z1R.
Upper mids on graph might look more elevated but it just did not sound like it for me. It just missed. The clarity mids im typically used.
That said, i probably like upper mids more than most of you around here. So there might be some bias.

But in general i tend to agree with @aaf evo description of EXT more.
Phonix for me is what is mid centric tuning.