[davidmolliere]

Good point, David.

Do any of you on this tour have a Shanling M9 or other powerful DAP?

I am not in a tour, I have purchased the EXT

But I don't have M9 although there is a great deal over 400€ discount right next door... M17 is more than enough for the job

 

[Rockwell75]

Did you compare them directly?

@SBranson has the Traillii and he'll be getting the tour kit right after me so some direct comparisons between Phonix & Traillii will be coming soon.

 

[Oliver Marino]

Yes it's got in spades that "precision" one stereotypically associates with German craftsmanship. There is also a deep and fundamental sense of inspiration & clarity that pervades the entire signature. I listened to a great interview with Johannes from VE once and he described their creative process which consists in them forming a clear "vision" of what they're going for and then using everything at their disposal to bring that vision into being. This is where the name Vision Ears comes from. Everything about the Phönix - it's name, it's look, the vibe of mythological power the name Phönix carries with it, the sound signature-- smacks of being the result of a singular vision made manifest. In addition it's got impeccable synergy with the Shanling M8. Out of the box EXT sounded a bit too bassy out of the M8 but Phönix is "Chef's Kiss" paired with it.

Don't forget the typical Italian taste too

 

[Tristy]

They are very different...but that's precisely why I want to a/b them lol...I've always endeavoured to judge an IEM on its own terms and not how it measures up to some preconceived ideal or other IEM.



I have no doubt that it scales well...but it sounds damn good through the SR25ii. EXT doesn't have the same crazy power requirements as Elysium, which sounded garbled & incoherent out of anything but a super high powered source. I'm listening to EXT through the SR25ii now and I can't find anything at all wanting with the sound. It's magnificent.

I don't think this is just a case of 'scaling', EXT sounds un-dynamic and congested out of the 4VRM balanced out of the ESS side of SE200, which I'd wager is more capable than the SR25ii's balanced out due to its placing in the product range. Not doubting it sounds magnificent but it will be severely bottlenecking EXT's performance over something like the Phonix, VE8 etc which are notoriously easy to drive and see's incremental increases in performance when driven through more powerful sources. This is where 'scaling' is applicable IMO.

 

[gLer]

I don't think this is just a case of 'scaling', EXT sounds un-dynamic and congested out of the 4VRM balanced out of the ESS side of SE200, which I'd wager is more capable than the SR25ii's balanced out due to its placing in the product range. Not doubting it sounds magnificent but it will be severely bottlenecking EXT's performance over something like the Phonix, VE8 etc which are notoriously easy to drive and see's incremental increases in performance when powered through more powerful sources. This is where 'scaling' is applicable IMO.

It's frustrating that A&K don't publish power output ratings in mW like everyone else. Makes it very difficult to gauge how efficient/powerful their amps are. I'd also say an IEM that needs a powerful (>1W) amp to open up properly is a hamstrung design, although if Rock says it sounds great from an entry level A&K, then maybe that's not quite the case?

 

[Rockwell75]

I don't think this is just a case of 'scaling', EXT sounds un-dynamic and congested out of the 4VRM balanced out of the ESS side of SE200, which I'd wager is more capable than the SR25ii's balanced out due to its placing in the product range.

I don't know how to respond to this other than by saying that it's not my experience so far-- the sound through the SR25ii is anything but "un-dynamic and congested". Switching over to the M8's Turbo Gain-- which is as much quality power as you can get from any source that size-- I hear the M8's characteristic magic on the low end but there's no increase in dynamics or technical performance. I actually prefer the SR25ii over the M8 with EXT and at this stage if I had to put my $$ down I would take EXT over Phonix based on how much I enjoy this pairup (and also because EXT's more mid-centric tonality is more to my personal ideal). YMMV etc.

 

[aaf evo]

I don't know how to respond to this other than by saying that it's not my experience so far-- the sound through the SR25ii is anything but "un-dynamic and congested". Switching over to the M8's Turbo Gain-- which is as much quality power as you can get from any source that size-- I hear the M8's characteristic magic on the low end but there's no increase in dynamics or technical performance. I actually prefer the SR25ii over the M8 with EXT and at this stage if I had to put my $$ down I would take EXT over Phonix based on how much I enjoy this pairup (and also because EXT's more mid-centric tonality is more to my personal ideal). YMMV etc.

Interesting that you find the EXT “mid-centric”, I hear the mid range to sit behind the bass and treble on the EXT whereas the Phonix to me is highlighting the mid range in comparison.

 

[Tristy]

It's frustrating that A&K don't publish power output ratings in mW like everyone else. Makes it very difficult to gauge how efficient/powerful their amps are. I'd also say an IEM that needs a powerful (>1W) amp to open up properly is a hamstrung design, although if Rock says it sounds great from an entry level A&K, then maybe that's not quite the case?

By that metric the IER-Z1R is a hamstrung design also? As it behaves in a very similar way though this output of the SE200. But yes I agree, it's not ideal. I have no doubt it sounds good but I am just stating that there is a lot more performance to be had, having experienced it myself and as @davidmolliere would also testify. I can't speak for the SR25ii as I haven't heard it. Just an FYI.

 

[Rockwell75]

Don't forget the typical Italian taste too

Noted

Interesting that you find the EXT “mid-centric”, I hear the mid range to sit behind the bass and treble on the EXT whereas the Phonix me is highlighting the mid range in comparison.

Wow so you hear it as v-shaped? I don't get that at all. For me with Phonix the vocals were almost embedded in the mix whereas with EXT (on both the M8 & SR25ii) I hear the vocals pulled forward and given a bit of spotlight. The bass on EXT is indeed massive but it doesn't overshadow the mids (here meaning vocals) to my ears.

Edit: Just a reminder that it's still early days for me with both these IEMs...I've had them in my possession for less than 12 hours...so some of my initial impressions may change or be refined in the coming days.

 

[aaf evo]

Noted



Wow so you hear it as v-shaped? I don't get that at all. For me with Phonix the vocals were almost embedded in the mix whereas with EXT (on both the M8 & SR25ii) I hear the vocals pulled forward and given a bit of spotlight. The bass on EXT is indeed massive but it doesn't overshadow the mids (here meaning vocals) to my ears.

Yeah to me EXT is U shaped , the upper mids are quite pulled back to my ears in comparison to something that would be neutral. Felt like it gave the perception of hearing more mid and upper treble than you normally would.

 

[gLer]

By that metric the IER-Z1R is a hamstrung design also? As it behaves in a very similar way though this output of the SE200. But yes I agree, it's not ideal. I have no doubt it sounds good but I am just stating that there is a lot more performance to be had, having experienced it myself and as @davidmolliere would also testify. I can't speak for the SR25ii as I haven't heard it. Just an FYI.

I don't have an SR25ii, but Z1R is superb off an RS6, which has 690mW output at 32ohm/4.4mm. No doubt it'll scale with a desktop-class amp but that doesn't even come into my thinking with an IEM. If EXT is good enough from a fairly high powered DAP like RS6 then it'll be fine. I'm assuming SR25ii is less powerful than RS6 but it's hard to say.

 

[snapandslide]

Hey, I should have Phonix by the end of next week. I'm in Dublin quite a bit, possibly we could sort something out for you to demo them. PM me if you are interested. Cheers

Sounds great, I'll drop you a message

Make sure you get a chance to try his Elysian X too.....simply end game for ambient. The new Burial EP was mindblowing.

 

[Tristy]

I don't have an SR25ii, but Z1R is superb off an RS6, which has 690mW output at 32ohm/4.4mm. No doubt it'll scale with a desktop-class amp but that doesn't even come into my thinking with an IEM. If EXT is good enough from a fairly high powered DAP like RS6 then it'll be fine. I'm assuming SR25ii is less powerful than RS6 but it's hard to say.

It may just be down to an aspect of synergy and the EXT gels better with the SR25ii's Cirrus Logic DAC's and Amp stage, it wouldn't be the first time this has been the case in my experience. Either way, both the EXT and Z1R sound excellent out of the balanced AKM side of the SE200 which also has a fairly lowly (by today's standards) 6Vrms of power.

 

[Rockwell75]

Yeah to me EXT is U shaped , the upper mids are quite pulled back to my ears in comparison to something that would be neutral. Felt like it gave the perception of hearing more mid and upper treble than you normally would.

I just did a quick a/b with Nick Cave's Red Right Hand through both IEMs (on the SR25ii). In neither IEM do the vocals feel pushed behind the bass but the bass on the EXT, as you'd expect coming from a DD, is thicker with more presence and longer decay. Nonetheless Cave's voice is front, centre and clear through the EXT while simultaneously you also perceive the thick DD bass response. Both IEMs sound quite balanced to my ears but I think to compensate for the much thicker DD lows the vocals/mids on the EXT needed to be pulled forward a bit to not be drowned in a sea of bass...which is perhaps where this perception of mine comes from. The bass is incredible on the EXT and much more a showpiece than it was on Elysium, where it was entirely a supporting role. The sense I get from listening to the EXT is that they were trying to balance the mid-range focus of Elysium with a more weighty bass response...and so far to my ears they succeeded marvelously. As with all things YMMV.

Edit: Also, I think EXT may have claimed the throne for my favorite bass in an IEM to date.

 

[gLer]

I just did a quick a/b with Nick Cave's Red Right Hand through both IEMs (on the SR25ii). In neither IEM do the vocals feel pushed behind the bass but the bass on the EXT, as you'd expect coming from a DD, is thicker with more presence and longer decay. Nonetheless Cave's voice is front, centre and clear through the EXT while simultaneously you also perceive the thick DD bass response. Both IEMs sound quite balanced to my ears but I think to compensate for the much thicker DD lows the vocals/mids on the EXT needed to be pulled forward a bit to not be drowned in a sea of bass...which is perhaps where this perception of mine comes from. The bass is incredible on the EXT and much more a showpiece than it was on Elysium, where it was entirely a supporting role. The sense I get from listening to the EXT is that they were trying to balance the mid-range focus of Elysium with a more weighty bass response...and so far to my ears they succeeded marvelously. As with all things YMMV.

Maybe try out some female vocals too, as male vocals tend to sit more in the lower mids and if I understand @aaf evo's impressions it's the upper mids on EXT that are pushed back relative to bass and treble.