The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Nov 6, 2023 at 8:28 PM Post #69,766 of 91,357
IMG_5571.jpeg

These are now my dynamic dual. They both are great in their own ways and serve their purposes.WW

Want to share some opinions on the differences? =) Feel free to redirect me to another page if you already did.
 
Nov 6, 2023 at 9:25 PM Post #69,767 of 91,357
People used to get upset about $8k retail price of UM iems. Now, it sounds like Storm is $10k with a new 8wire upgrade cable :D Of course, not sure if anybody is paying the full retail price nowadays, but still... I guess this makes N30LE + UM AP a bargain for $12.9k :wink:
The Storm comes with Mira so it’s not a straight up 5k + 5k if you upgrade cables from the base Storm. But it’ll be pretty close to Amber Pearl with the upgrade.
 
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Nov 6, 2023 at 9:34 PM Post #69,768 of 91,357
Fir E12 faceplates are $149 for a pair?! A little steep isn’t it?

Maybe they improve dynamics or soundstage expansion.

I recently paid like $70 for a pair of tips (that don't even fit me). Relative to the rising costs in many ares of this hobby at the end of the day $150 or so doesn't seem like much for the final tweak towards aesthetic or sonic perfection.
 
Nov 6, 2023 at 10:03 PM Post #69,769 of 91,357
Since Sovereign Symphony is an upgrade option, it was only about a $2000+ upgrade from the stock Mira cable.

To think, I thought the Shure SE846 I bought was the most expensive in ear monitor I would ever get. I am to the point that now expensive watches are starting to look affordable.
Haha, not yet, not yet, IEMs and cable companies still have a long to go before they match the expensive watch.
 
Nov 6, 2023 at 10:25 PM Post #69,770 of 91,357
People used to get upset about $8k retail price of UM iems. Now, it sounds like Storm is $10k with a new 8wire upgrade cable :D Of course, not sure if anybody is paying the full retail price nowadays, but still... I guess this makes N30LE + UM AP a bargain for $12.9k :wink:
This is why the upgrade is optional! The stock Mira mk2 of the regular edition is non-negotiable as that is the minimum experience with STORM that satisfies our vision, but due to the collaborative relationship of the Subtonic and Nightjar, it is very heavily internally subsidised by both boutiques, as are the upgrades, as we want to encourage people to maximize their experience with STORM.

For Subtonic, we do not price in discount margins. In fact, our margin structure is so lean that our current retailers are actually kindly accepting a lower than market rate margin just because they believe in our vision. It's not that we won't give discounts, but we simply can't. It's quite a suicidal business model, to be perfectly honest; it makes us less price competitive relative to brands with larger dealer margins that can afford constant discounts from RRP via their dealer, and it also limits our cashflow generation options as we can't generate hype sales from holiday discounts. But it is our philosophy that when you purchase a product of this stature, we should not insult you by making you subsidise discounts for others or pay for large middleman cuts that don't contribute the product itself.

Designing for longevity and sustained relevance also means that we can't rely on small retunes and rapid release cycles to generate revenue. We very much want to go against the current trend of fast fashion, hype marketing and the sense disposability that comes with it. We're simply doing what we believe in and hoping that there are enough people out there who can appreciate our values for us to survive. We've put in so much effort into creating STORM that if STORM is ever devalued, it will not be by our own hand. Mindless consumption is something we actively discourage, and I think quite a few clients can attest to the fact that we've actively dissuaded their purchases so they can wait until the opportunity to demo to be sure they really want the STORM.

The complexity of the manufacturing process. The choice to use top-of-the-line components, even in areas that are more esoteric and hard to market, like crossover components. The belief in compensating all our vendors, suppliers, retailers, and partners as fairly as possible. The engineering design that is an order of magnitude more complex than anything else currently out there to ensure ultimate performance, and to make STORM as future-proof as possible. These collectively result in a higher cost base. But also in a product that goes above and beyond in all aspects. Our prices are high, but we can confidently say that you absolutely get what you pay for, and are simultaneously supporting a collective of other like-minded and passionate industry partners.

STORM is admittedly inaccessible, but it is our statement as to the heights that are possible with enough work and passion. We are working on taking what we have learnt through developing STORM to release future creations that are more accessible, yet retain the same uncompromising values and insistence on quality. We are extremely grateful for all the support and love we have received thus far, and to those who've taken the time to experience STORM and appreciate what we were going for, even though it wasn't your usual preferred sound signature. We don't take the warm welcome and the open mindedness all of you have graced us with lightly, and we will continue to strive to take your listening experience to the next level!
 
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Subtonic Audio Cutting-edge artisanal in-ear monitors for discerning listeners. Proudly designed and manufactured in Singapore. Stay updated on Subtonic Audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/Subtonic.Audio https://www.instagram.com/subtonicaudio https://subtonic.audio support@subtonic.audio
Nov 6, 2023 at 10:38 PM Post #69,771 of 91,357
This is why the upgrade is optional! The stock Mira mk2 of the regular edition is non-negotiable as that is the minimum experience with STORM that satisfies our vision, but due to the collaborative relationship of the Subtonic and Nightjar, it is very heavily internally subsidised by both boutiques, as are the upgrades, as we want to encourage people to maximize their experience with STORM.

For Subtonic, we do not price in discount margins. In fact, our margin structure is so lean that our current retailers are actually kindly accepting a lower than market rate margins just because they believe in our vision. It's not that we won't give discounts, but we simply can't. It's quite a suicidal business model, to be perfectly honest; it makes us less price competitive relative to brands with larger dealer margins that can afford constant discounts from RRP via their dealer, and it also limits our cashflow generation options as we can't generate hype sales from holiday discounts. But it is our philosophy that when you purchase a product of this stature, we should not insult you by making you subsidise discounts for others or pay for large middleman cuts that don't contribute the product itself.

Designing for longevity and sustained relevance also means that we can't rely on small retunes and rapid release cycles to generate revenue. We very much want to go against the current trend of fast fashion, hype marketing and the sense disposability that comes with it. We're simply doing what we believe in and hoping that there are enough people out there who can appreciate our values for us to survive. We've put in so much effort into creating STORM that if STORM is ever devalued, it will not be by our own hand. Mindless consumption is something we actively discourage, and I think quite a few clients can attest to the fact that we've actively dissuaded their purchases so they can wait until the opportunity to demo to be sure they really want the STORM.

The complexity of the manufacturing process. The choice to use top-of-the-line components, even in areas that are more esoteric and hard to market, like crossover components. The belief in compensating all our vendors, suppliers, retailers, and partners as fairly as possible. The engineering design that is an order of magnitude more complex than anything else currently out there to ensure ultimate performance, and to make STORM as future-proof as possible. These collectively result in a higher cost base. But also in a product that goes above and beyond in all aspects. Our prices are high, but we can confidently say that you absolutely get what you pay for, and are simultaneously supporting a collective of other like-minded and passionate industry partners.

STORM is admittedly inaccessible, but it is our statement as to the heights that are possible with enough work and passion. We are working on taking what we have learnt through developing STORM to release future creations that are more accessible, yet retain the same uncompromising values and insistence on quality. We are extremely grateful for all the support and love we have received thus far, and to those who've taken the time to experience STORM and appreciate what we were going for even though it wasn't your usual preferred sound signature. We don't take the warm welcome and the open mindedness all of you have graced us with lightly, and we will continue to strive to take your listening experience to the next level!
After hearing the full story behind Storm, it would definitely be my number one choice for my next acquisition. I’d have to save for a bit for one, but all of that you said is something I could get behind.
 
Nov 6, 2023 at 10:50 PM Post #69,772 of 91,357
This is why the upgrade is optional! The stock Mira mk2 of the regular edition is non-negotiable as that is the minimum experience with STORM that satisfies our vision, but due to the collaborative relationship of the Subtonic and Nightjar, it is very heavily internally subsidised by both boutiques, as are the upgrades, as we want to encourage people to maximize their experience with STORM.

For Subtonic, we do not price in discount margins. In fact, our margin structure is so lean that our current retailers are actually kindly accepting a lower than market rate margins just because they believe in our vision. It's not that we won't give discounts, but we simply can't. It's quite a suicidal business model, to be perfectly honest; it makes us less price competitive relative to brands with larger dealer margins that can afford constant discounts from RRP via their dealer, and it also limits our cashflow generation options as we can't generate hype sales from holiday discounts. But it is our philosophy that when you purchase a product of this stature, we should not insult you by making you subsidise discounts for others or pay for large middleman cuts that don't contribute the product itself.

Designing for longevity and sustained relevance also means that we can't rely on small retunes and rapid release cycles to generate revenue. We very much want to go against the current trend of fast fashion, hype marketing and the sense disposability that comes with it. We're simply doing what we believe in and hoping that there are enough people out there who can appreciate our values for us to survive. We've put in so much effort into creating STORM that if STORM is ever devalued, it will not be by our own hand. Mindless consumption is something we actively discourage, and I think quite a few clients can attest to the fact that we've actively dissuaded their purchases so they can wait until the opportunity to demo to be sure they really want the STORM.

The complexity of the manufacturing process. The choice to use top-of-the-line components, even in areas that are more esoteric and hard to market, like crossover components. The belief in compensating all our vendors, suppliers, retailers, and partners as fairly as possible. The engineering design that is an order of magnitude more complex than anything else currently out there to ensure ultimate performance, and to make STORM as future-proof as possible. These collectively result in a higher cost base. But also in a product that goes above and beyond in all aspects. Our prices are high, but we can confidently say that you absolutely get what you pay for, and are simultaneously supporting a collective of other like-minded and passionate industry partners.

STORM is admittedly inaccessible, but it is our statement as to the heights that are possible with enough work and passion. We are working on taking what we have learnt through developing STORM to release future creations that are more accessible, yet retain the same uncompromising values and insistence on quality. We are extremely grateful for all the support and love we have received thus far, and to those who've taken the time to experience STORM and appreciate what we were going for even though it wasn't your usual preferred sound signature. We don't take the warm welcome and the open mindedness all of you have graced us with lightly, and we will continue to strive to take your listening experience to the next level!
Big Respect @Chang 🫡!
 
Nov 6, 2023 at 10:59 PM Post #69,773 of 91,357
Haha, not yet, not yet, IEMs and cable companies still have a long to go before they match the expensive watch.
At least craftsmanship, materials, tech and heritage are involved for most luxury brand watches, so the cost is somewhat justified. Cables, on the other hand....

And to be fair 10k is enough for a JLC/IWC/Omega/Zenith/Grand Seiko and stuff, or an entry GP/Blancpain/Breguet/etc, all of which are already very good luxury watches by "normal" standards.

That being said I'll still throw 5k on a cable if it sounds good. What a hypocrite I am. :joy:
 
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Nov 6, 2023 at 11:49 PM Post #69,776 of 91,357
Want to share some opinions on the differences? =) Feel free to redirect me to another page if you already did.
I only got the P6Pro yesterday and haven't had the time to listen carefully and just had 1 hour on it last night. I will post later since pretty tied up this week. I can only give first impressions. We have to be open the Ti99 and the N30LE are different not only in size but their sound so it will appeal to different people based on personal preferences in the tone and what music you want to listen to. The first impression is the Ti99 is so compact, portable and light. Certainly beautifully made and oozes quality. I can tell some top designer thoughts have been put behind it in terms of the casing and the finishing of the titanium. My first impression on the sound is clarity and high resolution. I tried to pick some songs on DSD 512/SACD type or the highest I can find in my collection to get the best from it. But I have to say the N30LE bass is strong because it has the power and current to drive it. I love both for different reasons. I already had an idea to have these 2 in my collection for different type songs and feel. Ti99 SQ is very good. I wish to get more time on it before I can comment fully. I'll update later.
 
Nov 6, 2023 at 11:52 PM Post #69,777 of 91,357
I can see spending money on cables to improve sound. But on watches how does this improve "Time"? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::wink:
Just like your cables improve sound but won't improve the music itself, the luxury watches improve your feel of time, not the time itself. :).
 
Nov 7, 2023 at 1:01 AM Post #69,778 of 91,357
I've had a Cardas Clear/1950s clone re terminated with ConX, and while audio memory is of course unreliable, I heard no appreciable difference. If there is a very slight difference in A/B testing, my guess is that it's not going to be enough to worry me personally. TermX, on the other hand, I'm not really a fan. Not because of any SQ difference, but I think the mechanism isn't great. I much prefer a twist lock system, a-la the brilliant cable HiBy supplies with the new $239 Yvain.
Sorry for finding this a bit funny. If anything, you should be terribly worried about the 'slight difference'. After all, most audiophiles invest in cables to achieve just that, a veeery slight positive difference in sound perception. Beside looks and comfort.

Not meant in any way as a personal attack or attack vs cable believers. I actually think I heard a difference when I swapped the cable on my Butastur. I just found it to be worded funnily in this hobby where slight differences are sacred.
 
Nov 7, 2023 at 2:12 AM Post #69,780 of 91,357
congrats and looking forward to hearing your impressions pairing Raph with GM and MSE
Raphael is my new favourite cable for MSE, along with Baroque tips.
Sorry for finding this a bit funny. If anything, you should be terribly worried about the 'slight difference'. After all, most audiophiles invest in cables to achieve just that, a veeery slight positive difference in sound perception. Beside looks and comfort.

Not meant in any way as a personal attack or attack vs cable believers. I actually think I heard a difference when I swapped the cable on my Butastur. I just found it to be worded funnily in this hobby where slight differences are sacred.
Yeah I know, but I'm not one of those that thinks paying thousands for a 2-3% tweak is rational, or even desirable. I can promise you any SQ difference with ConX will be much smaller than changing the actual cable, which in itself is a very small tweak, relatively speaking. To each his own, but I'll take the versatility of ConX over any miniscule sound changes any day, with any cable. Heck I'd ConX Orphy if I could.
 

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