[Rockwell75]

Did some tweaking to my ranking list-- deleted a couple sections and added "Air" as well as "Midrange Body". Also I deleted many IEMs I only managed superficially short demos of. Of the IEMs on this list I have owned 18 of them and the others I either had on hand for at least week or have demoed multiple times. Usual caveats that this is all subjective and subject to my own biases, preferences, perceptions etc...it's far from perfect I know but it's evolved into a pretty decent measure of my own perceptions & values.

 

[Deezel177]

I got delivery notifications for Isa, Zen Pro & Kato for tomorrow...Christmas will come early. I thought about trying to hold off until Christmas for Kato & Zen Pro but there's no way.

Also I think I need to tune out Ext impressions for a while a they're just torturing me with yearning and angst. In other news I hope everyone's enjoying a nice relaxing Sunday.

Lastly, love the Odin cable with Duo so much I'd like to seek out an equivalent cable-- any recs? Would the Eletech Socrates fit the bill?

As @tgx78 said, @doctorjuggles is the guy you wanna call.

 

[Rockwell75]

As @tgx78 said, @doctorjuggles is the guy you wanna call.

I may just do that. After I get Zen Pro & Kato I'm going to sell a couple IEMs and use the proceeds to fund a cable upgrade for my Duo and possibly Zen Pro if I keep it...hopefully that will tide me over until the EXT/Phonix tour units arrive. I may jump on a Monarch II just out of curiosity...eager for more impressions of it.

 

[gLer]

Also I think I need to tune out Ext impressions for a while a they're just torturing me with yearning and angst. In other news I hope everyone's enjoying a nice relaxing Sunday.

I must say I've really cooled on the EXT. Between questionable fit, the (literally) tacky wax mesh 'system', sound impressions ranging from muddy to 'unique', and technicalities not really tipping the scale for everyone who's heard them, it's too risky for a blind buy, certainly not at the asking price. By comparison Phönix seems to be a home run, yet I have absolutely no interest in it. Hopefully I'll be able to arrange a tour with VE in the new year and make up my own mind.

 

[jwilliamhurst]

I must say I've really cooled on the EXT. Between questionable fit, the (literally) tacky wax mesh 'system', sound impressions ranging from muddy to 'unique', and technicalities not really tipping the scale for everyone who's heard them, it's too risky for a blind buy, certainly not at the asking price. By comparison Phönix seems to be a home run, yet I have absolutely no interest in it. Hopefully I'll be able to arrange a tour with VE in the new year and make up my own mind.

I’m in the same exact

 

[Rockwell75]

I must say I've really cooled on the EXT. Between questionable fit, the (literally) tacky wax mesh 'system', sound impressions ranging from muddy to 'unique', and technicalities not really tipping the scale for everyone who's heard them, it's too risky for a blind buy, certainly not at the asking price. By comparison Phönix seems to be a home run, yet I have absolutely no interest in it. Hopefully I'll be able to arrange a tour with VE in the new year and make up my own mind.

I'm not surprised at the the varied impressions-- that happens with every IEM I've ever really loved. "Muddy" is one of the most overused terms though imho. It's way too subjective-- for many anything less than wide open & boosted upper mids and restrained mid-bass comes off as "muddy". I waffled on Elysium for ages because the exact same divided impressions EXT is receiving...and when I heard it I fell in love with it. That said no IEM that expensive is worth a blind buy for me even though I maintain my faith in VE. It helps that I'm guaranteed a demo of both IEMs at some point...it's just a waiting game. I am stoked to hear Phonix but like you I'm not that excited about it really-- I've owned and experienced many of the greatest all BA IEMs out there and none of them have been able to sustain me for the long term-- I, like you, have settled once and for all on the maxim "No DD, no dice"...my interest now lies mostly in single DDs or hybrid models where the DD does the mids. Traillii may one day prove to be the only exception to this rule, however.

 

[gLer]

I, like you, have settled once and for all on the maxim "No DD, no dice"...my interest lies mostly in single DDs or hybrid models where the DD does the mids. Traillii may one day prove to be the only exception to this rule, however.

Exact same thoughts here. Traillii is the only all-BA IEM I've heard that I'd ever contemplate owning. U12t was my first bae, and I love it for what it is, but ultimately the BA bass left me wanting. Traillii bass also leaves me wanting, but far less frequently.

What I know I don't like is a midbass-focused/heavy sound that clouds the sub-bass and/or vocals, even slightly. It's very possible to tune an IEM with powerful DD pass and no veil, but some IEMs go for that warmth as a tuning choice and that comes across as 'muddy' with tracks that have basslines running through them, to my ears anyway. It's one reason I preferred Fourte over Noir, for example, despite Fourte's skewed tonality. Bass clarity and vocal clarity doesn't have to be an either or.

Not saying EXT will come across as muddy - the FR graph certainly doesn't suggest it - but I'd need to hear it first.

 

[Mehran]

I'm not surprised at the the varied impressions-- that happens with every IEM I've ever really loved. "Muddy" is one of the most overused terms though imho. It's way too subjective-- for many anything less than wide open & boosted upper mids and restrained mid-bass comes off as "muddy". I waffled on Elysium for ages because the exact same divided impressions EXT is receiving...and when I heard it I fell in love with it. That said no IEM that expensive is worth a blind buy for me even though I maintain my faith in VE. It helps that I'm guaranteed a demo of both IEMs at some point...it's just a waiting game. I am stoked to hear Phonix but like you I'm not that excited about it really-- I've owned and experienced many of the greatest all BA IEMs out there and none of them have been able to sustain me for the long term-- I, like you, have settled once and for all on the maxim "No DD, no dice"...my interest now lies mostly in single DDs or hybrid models where the DD does the mids. Traillii may one day prove to be the only exception to this rule, however.

"no DD...no dice". Yet number 1&2 on your list use BA for bass. I'm willing to bet Phönix is going top them soon too.

 

[gLer]

"no DD...no dice". Yet number 1&2 on your list use BA for bass. I'm willing to bet Phönix is going top them soon too.

Elysium uses a DD for mids.

 

[Mehran]

Elysium uses a DD for mids.

I'm aware, lol
So BA bass is fine as long as mids are done by a DD or it's the bird. Got it
Still, if an all BA IEM tops your list and you automatically rule out any other all BA IEM, I find it a bit ironic.

 

[gLer]

I'm aware, lol
So BA bass is fine as long as mids are done by a DD. Got it

Not for me, but I know Rock loves the Ely and doesn't mind the BA bass in that particular IEM.

 

[Rockwell75]

What I know I don't like is a midbass-focused/heavy sound that clouds the sub-bass and/or vocals, even slightly. It's very possible to tune an IEM with powerful DD pass and no veil, but some IEMs go for that warmth as a tuning choice and that comes across as 'muddy' with tracks that have basslines running through them, to my ears anyway. It's one reason I preferred Fourte over Noir, for example, despite Fourte's skewed tonality. Bass clarity and vocal clarity doesn't have to be an either or.

This is one area where our respective libraries probably influence our preferences. I listen to a lot of mid-bass heavy electronic music and also a lot of soul, rock & funk music, all of which benefits from a mid-bass/lower mid emphasis. I also don't listen to too many female vocals so while I can appreciate them it's not going to be one of the main things I look for or a deal breaker if it's not perfect. Have you heard the IER Z1R? Based on what you say here it sounds like that may be a great IEM choice for you. I'd also be curious to hear what you think of the Duo. I can personally handle massive bass so long as resolution is good. Mid-range resolution despite the massive bass is the real genius of the Legend X imho-- the level of bass did get fatiguing for me at times though.

"no DD...no dice". Yet number 1&2 on your list use BA for bass. I'm willing to bet Phönix is going top them soon too.

As @gLer said Ely has DD mids. Ely is a funny one-- there was a 3 month period from January until March where Ely was pretty much the only IEM I had access to. As such I got used to the bass and didn't miss DD bass for a while. In all honesty I could have rolled off into the sunset right then and there however once March rolled around and some more DD laden IEMs started coming my way, in particular the IER Z1R & Dorado, the BA bass on the Elysium-- which is excellent and if I'm honest as good as any BA bass I've ever heard-- became less palpable for me. So while I could have probably been satisfied with it on its own-- due largely to the strength of the DD mids-- being exposed to great DDs made it hard for me not to go back to DD bass.

Traillii is special. It gets its position in my rankings not due to its driver config (or lack thereof) but because of how I feel when I listen to them. No other IEM has yet been able to do what Traillii does-- to instantly, fully and completely draw me into its world to the extent that it's hard to remain focused on the outside world and on top of all that to touch my heart in the process. The combination of its peerless technicalities and the delicacy, intimacy & sweetness of the Old Man's tuning has raised it into an echelon of performance that defies convention for me.

Not for me, but I know Rock loves the Ely and doesn't mind the BA bass in that particular IEM.

+1

 

[gLer]

This is one area where our respective libraries probably influence our preferences. I listen to a lot of mid-bass heavy electronic music and also a lot of soul, rock & funk music, all of which benefits from a mid-bass/lower mid emphasis. I also don't listen to too many female vocals so while I can appreciate them it's not going to be one of the main things I look for or a deal breaker if it's not perfect. Have you heard the IER Z1R? Based on what you say here it sounds like that may be a great IEM choice for you. I'd also be curious to hear what you think of the Duo. I can personally handle massive bass so long as resolution is good. Mid-range resolution despite the massive bass is the real genius of the Legend X imho-- the level of bass did get fatiguing for me at times though.

Absolutely agree, music choice is part and parcel of why we prefer some IEMs over others. If all I listened to was electronic music, for example, I could probably live with the IE 900 forever and a day and never look back. But while it has great vocal tonality for me, that's not its strength, and while technicalities are on par or slightly better than other IEMs in its class, I've heard better. As a super comfy EDC all-rounder though, it's peerless (for my taste), especially at the price point.

The IER-Z1R is an itch I never scratched, mainly out of fear for the fit and potential treble peak. But I'm still very curious about it, and if I can convince it to sit in my ears with a shallow fit, it could yet prove a dark horse. I think I'm going to have to look seriously in that direction. Tha ks for the tip (no pun intended!)

 

[Rockwell75]

Absolutely agree, music choice is part and parcel of why we prefer some IEMs over others. If all I listened to was electronic music, for example, I could probably live with the IE 900 forever and a day and never look back. But while it has great vocal tonality for me, that's not its strength, and while technicalities are on par or slightly better than other IEMs in its class, I've heard better. As a super comfy EDC all-rounder though, it's peerless (for my taste), especially at the price point.

The IER-Z1R is an itch I never scratched, mainly out of fear for the fit and potential treble peak. But I'm still very curious about it, and if I can convince it to sit in my ears with a shallow fit, it could yet prove a dark horse. I think I'm going to have to look seriously in that direction. Tha ks for the tip (no pun intended!)

The only caveats with the IER Z1R are 1) it needs a good powerful source and 2) use the right tips. The first time I owned one all I had were spiral dots (Sony's tips don't fit me), which are pretty soft tips and because of their softness made it hard for he weighty Z1R units to remain in my ears. Fast forward to 2021 and I have a much wider selection of tips on hand. I went for my standard at the time-- OG Sednas-- and they totally revolutionized the Z1R fit for me. the longer bore of the OGs, coupled with how firm they are, allowed the IER Z1R to lock themselves in place in my ears. I could wear them for hours without even so much as adjusting them. Beyond those two things I think you will love them. It's a little lacking in the mid-bass/lower mids which was ultimately the deal breaker for me but the sub-bass and treble are to die for as is their rendering of female vocals. Male vocals fare a little less well but they're not bad.

 

[Damz87]

The IER-Z1R is an itch I never scratched, mainly out of fear for the fit and potential treble peak. But I'm still very curious about it, and if I can convince it to sit in my ears with a shallow fit, it could yet prove a dark horse. I think I'm going to have to look seriously in that direction. Tha ks for the tip (no pun intended!)

Using the largest included tips on IER-Z1R can work for a more shallow fit. Luckily Sony include a heap of tips so you just have to experiment. When I first got mine, it took about 2 weeks to actually get the right fit haha!

God I miss my IER-Z1R that IEM was my bae.