The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Apr 13, 2022 at 12:39 PM Post #20,656 of 91,280
hahahaha yes yes $2000 IEM, "Great Value" "TOTL" "Recommended Buy" "#Endgame" "Must Have" "Great Build Quality" "Well Tuned" :joy:

Meanwhile on the other side, $2000 Handbag, "Waste of money" "Trash Material" "Ugly" "Depreciation" "#plasticbagworkstoo" :joy:
jkjk
Wish my wife’s handbags were that cheap, it’s only leather, no technology there.
Hey there, thanks for asking, I'm currently waiting on the Subtonic Storm tbh since it's so interesting imo so i haven't ordered the traillii yet. But sometimes there is a demon calling from the other side that says "Just get Custom Jewel + FT Cable, you won't regret it..." God, I'm truly torn...
Might as well wait if you’ve waited this long. I personally love the Jewel, wasn’t a huge fan of Traillii even though lots of people are. For me the Storm is most likely a skip it’s missing the DD I tend to like. If I get a chance I’ll try it, just won’t buy it like the Traillii site unheard.
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 12:50 PM Post #20,657 of 91,280
Wish my wife’s handbags were that cheap, it’s only leather, no technology there.

Might as well wait if you’ve waited this long. I personally love the Jewel, wasn’t a huge fan of Traillii even though lots of people are. For me the Storm is most likely a skip it’s missing the DD I tend to like. If I get a chance I’ll try it, just won’t buy it like the Traillii site unheard.
yes yes, handbags can get very omg price, some costs almost as expensive as an apartment. In Indonesia, many rich housewives are competing on their handbag collection and as someone who knows these people, it's fun observing their behaviour...

yes, i decided to wait on the storm, then i might finally make my decision.. Since i heard the Traillii BA bass, if the storm can reproduce the same quality bass, then i won't complain. But let's see.. i didn't get a chance to try the Jewel with FT cable, but i know it will sound right since the FT cable is versatile and doesn't quite change the core of the iem, but rather improve (although incremental upgrade) on its best qualities. Price wise, the Jewel + FT vs. Traillii, is not much of a difference. So let's see how the subtonic storm will perform...
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:05 PM Post #20,658 of 91,280
yes yes, handbags can get very omg price, some costs almost as expensive as an apartment. In Indonesia, many rich housewives are competing on their handbag collection and as someone who knows these people, it's fun observing their behaviour...

yes, i decided to wait on the storm, then i might finally make my decision.. Since i heard the Traillii BA bass, if the storm can reproduce the same quality bass, then i won't complain. But let's see.. i didn't get a chance to try the Jewel with FT cable, but i know it will sound right since the FT cable is versatile and doesn't quite change the core of the iem, but rather improve (although incremental upgrade) on its best qualities. Price wise, the Jewel + FT vs. Traillii, is not much of a difference. So let's see how the subtonic storm will perform...
That's what high-quality replicas are for. The IEM scene just hasn't caught up yet. Wait 'til you see how much replica VE8's and SE5U's cost on TaoBao. There's a reason everyone's getting their own proprietary drivers made now. :p
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:05 PM Post #20,659 of 91,280
For the C9 owners what interconnects have you used (apart from stock)? I’m looking at some options, preferring a bodied sound - close to neutral but leaning more warm / musical than analytical.

There is the PW option but rather costly (over $550 for an ultra short short 4.4mm to 4.4mm). The other is the Eletech ProAdapt series; liking the look and sound descriptions of the Socrates at the moment (Plato has also been suggested but cautious of all silver).

I tried the iFi cable and found it quite bright.
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:17 PM Post #20,660 of 91,280
So the midweek Cooler Quiz question: how much are you influenced by branding in your choice of audio gear? Would you generally be inclined to pay higher prices based on this influence regardless of product merit?
Branding plays a very very small role in my purchase decisions. I usually only notice it at all when a company is on the polar ends of the quality spectrum.
It's the product itself, the sound quality, and the long term stability that matters to me. I know companies have to package and emphasize themselves over the competition, but I’ve always seen selling lifestyle and image as such a presumptuous affair I want no part of. I am the type you cannot advertise to. I tend to actually not buy things advertised to me out of spite and annoyance.
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:20 PM Post #20,661 of 91,280
I like to add to the "watercooler" discussion...

My whole journey has been fundamentally moved by comparison. Comparison, comparison, comparison, was the motivation to change and upgrade.
Wether it headphones, IEM, cables, amps, or Daps. Being able to not only hear, but to compare the difference was key.
Almost anything will sound impressive today, without any direct comparison.

An example for me, was the Sony WM1Z. I absolutely loved this unit... Its analog flavor. I posted about it's analog nature many times in threads.
It wasn't until I did a three way side-by-side comparison with an LP P6, and an ibasso 220Max.
It was then when it was like Sony broke my heart with betrayal..

It deviated in aspects, where the other two Daps converged in agreement. That's when I realized that not only was Sony adding it's "analog" sound, but it was also "reinterpretating" and for lack of better word, "recreating" those other aspects the sound, compared to the two others Daps, mostly in soundstage, and cues.
I realized with disappointment that my lovely sound was not only engaging, but doing things not in the recording, and deviating (small increments) from the actual performance displayed with the other two totally different Daps (Lesabre& R2R).
It was then that I realized the Sony dac was acting more like a sound processor, manipulating beauty out of the music with their software, straying further away from the truth. Beautiful, yes, accurate, no.
So it was a bit of a disappointing moment, to realize that they did this on purpose, and only the MrWalkman firmware mods corrected much of this, and more. He even unlocked the volume limt. Why would any manufacturer do this much "gimping"?
To this day, even in their new offering, they're still gimping on the volume output. Ridiculous.

To put it all in perspective, the differences I mention are actually small, to be noted on mainly in comparisons. I still loved the musicality of the sound. It was just time to move on to more resolving players, especially with companies that don't have the ideology to gimp thier own player's performance, which is what history shows of the Sonys.

Anyways, the point is that my main tool for me had become comparison observation based on a reference point.
I used this method on all my own measuring and researching, as I modded headphones and amps as a hobby.

So after experiencing many TOTLs, I have narrow down the three observations about sound that I would propose to show how I view aspects of sound for IEMs:

**Detailed = sensitivity
**Technical (analitical) = less harmonics
**Musicality = more **harmonics (distortions)
**Resolving = speed

So we can have an IEM that's detailed (sensitivity) but still sounds like a cartoon, compared to a TOTL performer that had resolve (speed).
Resolve is probably the strongest aspect to sounding real. Speed. That why the Raal SR1a and Stax sounds TOTL.

They can still have great harmonics and sound real (like planars) with speeeed.
Harmonic distortion has nothing to do with actually being better.
For instance Tube amps can have tons of juicy harmonics and still sound real...

So to me:
1- being analytical/ sterile, doesn't need to be a "necessary component" in any type of gear, weather headphones or DAP or system.
2- details come easy in IEM world, and are confused with performance.
3- realism & musicality going hand in hand, are the real achievements of being TOTL.

So with that, my IEM preference has changed from an all BA unit (U12T) to a multi unit.
It needs to have DD bass and BA mids, & ES top end.
I am already biased to want those "signatures" in my sound.
Distortion aspects, to me are only the addded flavors to the signature of the driver, not any description of resolve or performance.

So as for the IEMs, my observations are that
I found the EXT impressive, and although the soundstage was great, but that top end was too much, giving me an almost "U" shaped presentation.

The Traillie had better sound & beautiful mids with good soundstage. It showed me true TOTL performance.

The Odin was right up there, being smooth and balanced, although missing a bit of that top end air, and having less/closer soundstage.

So in the end ended up with the Indigo. It has the resolution/beauty of the others, with a signature closer to the EXT, without the EXT's excess on either (bass& treble) extremes, while having a similar great soundstage. So it was a preference choice, ticking all the boxes of what I preferred, with a soundstage just as good as any of them.

Going from this point on, both the EXT & the Indigo convinced me that DD bass is the way to go if I ever choose to upgrade, but like others already mentioned in this thread, the technology is basically hitting limits and so most are similarly TOTL level, so we're just picking preference.
In the end, it's personal preference.
I heard the aroma jewel, and it has a superior soundstage, mid, and bass to all the IEMs I heard before, with nice air, yet lower trebles a tiny bit lowered. That's probably the best IEM I heard, but my wallet says no, lol.
:)
 
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Apr 13, 2022 at 1:21 PM Post #20,662 of 91,280
That's what high-quality replicas are for. The IEM scene just hasn't caught up yet. Wait 'til you see how much replica VE8's and SE5U's cost on TaoBao. There's a reason everyone's getting their own proprietary drivers made now. :p
omg so true, tbh, there are already some in terms of tuning. I mean i swear there are iem companies out there that copies and takes apart one famous iem and reproduce it with much cheaper prices and sell it at a low cost..... (not going to mention names here) :laughing:
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:30 PM Post #20,663 of 91,280
For the C9 owners what interconnects have you used (apart from stock)? I’m looking at some options, preferring a bodied sound - close to neutral but leaning more warm / musical than analytical.

There is the PW option but rather costly (over $550 for an ultra short short 4.4mm to 4.4mm). The other is the Eletech ProAdapt series; liking the look and sound descriptions of the Socrates at the moment (Plato has also been suggested but cautious of all silver).

I tried the iFi cable and found it quite bright.
I use this $35 cable. It works great and is very strong and ergonomic. I am not convinced that an interconnect makes any difference at all to sound quality.

https://www.audiophileninja.com/product/4-4mm-balanced-interconnect/
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:33 PM Post #20,664 of 91,280
For the C9 owners what interconnects have you used (apart from stock)? I’m looking at some options, preferring a bodied sound - close to neutral but leaning more warm / musical than analytical.

There is the PW option but rather costly (over $550 for an ultra short short 4.4mm to 4.4mm). The other is the Eletech ProAdapt series; liking the look and sound descriptions of the Socrates at the moment (Plato has also been suggested but cautious of all silver).

I tried the iFi cable and found it quite bright.
I have all 3 Eletech interconnects - Socrates, Plato and Illiad - and pair them with corresponding IEM cable, eg Socrates IC > Socrates IEM; Socrates or Plato IC > P8 Plato x Socrates; Illiad IC > with any.

Plato is closest to neutral followed by Illiad, Socrates slightly warm and now I hear, all are musical but neither 3 are bright.

TBH most of the time I can’t discern much difference between the 3 Eletech ICs compared to their respective IEM cables except Socrates.
 
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Apr 13, 2022 at 1:33 PM Post #20,665 of 91,280
I use this $35 cable. It works great and is very strong and ergonomic. I am not convinced that an interconnect makes any difference at all to sound quality.

https://www.audiophileninja.com/product/4-4mm-balanced-interconnect/
Why wouldn't it make a difference when normal cables do? They both transfer the same information. It's all about the conductivity. The better the materials the better the conductivity. Hence the higher end interconnects make a difference just like the iem cables do. Same science. In theory atleast
 
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Apr 13, 2022 at 1:38 PM Post #20,666 of 91,280
I have all 3 Eletech interconnects - Socrates, Plato and Illiad - and pair them with corresponding IEM cable, eg Socrates IC > Socrates IEM; Socrates or Plato IC > P8 Plato x Socrates; Illiad IC > with any.

Plato is closest to neutral followed by Illiad, Socrates slightly warm and now I hear, all are musical but neither 3 are bright.

TBH most of the time I can’t discern much difference between the 3 Eletech ICs compared to their respective IEM cables except Socrates.
Maybe it has something to do with the length. Since it's so short the differences are harder to tell because the resistance is already so low.
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:39 PM Post #20,667 of 91,280
Maybe it has something to do with the length. Since it's so short the differences are harder to tell because the resistance is already so low.
That was going to be the TL;DR of my post, haha.
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 1:40 PM Post #20,668 of 91,280
Why wouldn't it make a difference when normal cables do? They both transfer the same information. It's all about the conductivity. The better the materials the better the conductivity. Hence the higher end interconnects make a difference just like the iem cables do. Same science. In theory atleast
The science suggests it's all our imagination. So, I won't go there. The interconnect is so short that it is doing very little in the signal path. I think the quality of the connectors matters more. If people hear a difference, I believe them. I am just not sure if I do.
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 2:02 PM Post #20,669 of 91,280
I should have kept this plugged into the Jewel like I intended. 🫣 I need want another one now.

7CCE8348-6125-4DDE-BC5C-537771203F13.jpeg
 
Apr 13, 2022 at 2:09 PM Post #20,670 of 91,280
I should have kept this plugged into the Jewel like I intended. 🫣 I need want another one now.

7CCE8348-6125-4DDE-BC5C-537771203F13.jpeg
May have pointed out this issue to you already 🤷‍♂️
 

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