[busseysound]

Congrats! Pls report in the OTL thread.. curious if you’ll enjoy them as I do

Will do - also, what rectifier tube and input tube are you using for the ZMF/OTL?

 

[Wes S]

All good brother



The ZMF OTL input tube will accept pretty much any 6v or 7v gain tube, but the G73-R is a 12v gain tube (12au7 equivalent) so it can’t be used in with that amp

FYI, the 12AU7 tube can be run as a 6V with the correct adapter. The 12AU7 is unique in that it has a tap for 12v and 6v. So, I bet it actually can be used that amp. . .

https://pulsetubestore.com/products...uction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

 

[busseysound]

FYI, the 12AU7 tube can be run as a 6V with the correct adapter. The 12AU7 is unique in that it has a tap for 12v and 6v. So, I bet it actually can be used that amp. . .

I was wondering about that - I have a 12AU7/12AT7 to ECC88/6922 adapter already, but I really like the extra umph I get from the PCC189 tubes. I tried some 12AU7's with the adapter and could certainly tell the difference. I've tried a few different 6N1P tubes in there as well. A Novoibirsk 6N1P-VI was the best of those but I still prefer the clarity that the Siemens PCC189 has. I chose it over other PCC189's: Telefunken and Valvo in particular which were also very good.

 

[goldwerger]

FYI, the 12AU7 tube can be run as a 6V with the correct adapter. The 12AU7 is unique in that it has a tap for 12v and 6v. So, I bet it actually can be used that amp. . .

https://pulsetubestore.com/products/12axx-to-ecc88-adapter-plug-play-novib-©-1960s-nos-british-mcmurdo-phenolic-socket-on-top-plus-vibration-reduction-base-9-pin-b9a-noval-not-made-in-china

Right!

I dong know if others specs will fit electrically but perhaps it would..

 

[goldwerger]

Will do - also, what rectifier tube and input tube are you using for the ZMF/OTL?

For rectifier I use Philips Miniwatt GZ34 brown base DD getter (Sittard factory)

Current input tube is RCA 6BQ7A black plates O getter / I have on standby a Telefunken PCC189 I’m planning to roll sometime after canjam..

 

[helljudgement]

Right now I've not had a chance to try anything beyond my own two pieces of gear which are midrange at best (Cayin RU7 which is a 1-bit dongle and JDS Element which is an ESS) and frankly they sound pretty similar to me.

Unfortunately for you there is simply no replacing first hand listening. You will have to find a way to hear it on meets/events or budget an amount you are willing to spend to get your first hand experience. Not to be unhelpful but I personally feel reading any more on this topic without first experiencing a few more dacs will cloud your judgement and misled your expectations. I will suggest getting a used dac that is well received by the community and see where that takes you.

 

[LXMc]

Unfortunately for you there is simply no replacing first hand listening. You will have to find a way to hear it on meets/events or budget an amount you are willing to spend to get your first hand experience. Not to be unhelpful but I personally feel reading any more on this topic without first experiencing a few more dacs will cloud your judgement and misled your expectations. I will suggest getting a used dac that is well received by the community and see where that takes you.

Definitely not unhelpful and a good suggestion - thanks

 

[busseysound]

For rectifier I use Philips Miniwatt GZ34 brown base DD getter (Sittard factory)

Current input tube is RCA 6BQ7A black plates O getter / I have on standby a Telefunken PCC189 I’m planning to roll sometime after canjam..

I just rolled back in that same RCA 6BQ7A you mentioned (black plates O getter) and wow yeah, there's some of the bottom end I was missing. Maybe ever so slight loss of clarity from the Siemens PCC189, but I'm not quite sure. I need t let this one burn in. There's a musicality to this tube that is great as well.

And here I thought I had ruled out all of the 6BQ7A's lol

 

[Monsterzero]

For those here with a breadth of source experience; I've been looking around at DAC options and am currently having a bit of a struggle discerning realistic expectations from an upgrade. Obviously everyone has their own experiences that they perceive but I was curious if the regulars in this thread (which I realize is amp-centric, apologies) have found changing DACs on their chain to have real noticeable benefits/changes.

Right now I've not had a chance to try anything beyond my own two pieces of gear which are midrange at best (Cayin RU7 which is a 1-bit dongle and JDS Element which is an ESS) and frankly they sound pretty similar to me. What I've surmised from reading around is DACs are generally pretty similar sounding in the mid tier range and don't really start coming into their own until you get into R2R or high end. Even then it's hard to know just to what degree as even in some higher end the differences sound negligible. If diminishing returns hits even harder for DACs.

I've generally been keeping a general list of possibilities that are all over the place in price, Mojo 2, SMSL SU-10, Gustard A26/R26, Denafrips Ares 2 and probably my most wanted (and expensive) Ferrum Wandla.

Thanks for any insights!

I have found that if you reach out to some high end audio dealers, some of them would be inclined to loan you gear to try in your system, assuming they have a loaner unit available. Some might ask for a credit card deposit to make sure you don't skip town on them and to ensure that you're a serious buyer as opposed to a tire kicker..

Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with Canadian dealers.

What I would do is narrow down to a few DACs that interest you, find a Canadian dealer of said DACs and reach out to them and see if they can assist you.
Buying blind is a crapshoot at best, and even if you hear the DAC in another person's system, the odds of this DAC sounding the same in your system are slim to none, and Slim just left town.

EDIT: I should add that most of these dealers tend to carry esoteric gear, so thinking outside the box and keeping an open mind is key. If you go looking for a dealer of Schiit, Gustard, Denafrips, Holo, etc you will come up empty.

EDIT#2: Now is actually an excellent time to reach out to audio dealers. Sales are way down from the same time last year and the year before for economic reasons, so these dealers have to pay their bills too and might be more inclined to loan out gear.

 

[Pharmaboy]

For those here with a breadth of source experience; I've been looking around at DAC options and am currently having a bit of a struggle discerning realistic expectations from an upgrade. Obviously everyone has their own experiences that they perceive but I was curious if the regulars in this thread (which I realize is amp-centric, apologies) have found changing DACs on their chain to have real noticeable benefits/changes.

Right now I've not had a chance to try anything beyond my own two pieces of gear which are midrange at best (Cayin RU7 which is a 1-bit dongle and JDS Element which is an ESS) and frankly they sound pretty similar to me. What I've surmised from reading around is DACs are generally pretty similar sounding in the mid tier range and don't really start coming into their own until you get into R2R or high end. Even then it's hard to know just to what degree as even in some higher end the differences sound negligible. If diminishing returns hits even harder for DACs.

I've generally been keeping a general list of possibilities that are all over the place in price, Mojo 2, SMSL SU-10, Gustard A26/R26, Denafrips Ares 2 and probably my most wanted (and expensive) Ferrum Wandla.

Thanks for any insights!

I've had a number of DACs here in the past & currently have 2 x NOS DACs. My 2 cents is that price should be your last consideration, not your first. Here's the progression I feel works best:

1 - First and foremost, in DACs as in all things, try to figure out what kind of sound reproduction you prefer. Think back to speakers or headphones (or anything else) that pleased you. Why did it please you? This means knowing where your ears fit on the perpetual audio continuum between forensically detailed, "accurate" sound on one end; and romantic, euphonic, "musical" sound on the other.

2 - Then recognize various marketplace/DAC design realities that pertain to your search:

• Delta Sigma:Most DACs in the market are delta sigma. This includes most low price "consumer" DACs (ie, cellphones, portables of all kinds; inexpensive desktop units; AIOs). This is because d/s DACs can be built rather cheaply/quickly to low price points. It's also because most people who buy low price audio don't seem to care much about sound, don't do much comparative listening, etc.
  • But some of the priciest, best-reviewed DACs on the planet are delta sigma designs
  • Quality of implementation, not type of DAC or chip used, is the biggest determinant of SQ. That means high quality power supplies, grounding, digital clock, I/O boards--all ingredients of d/s DACs--can be sky high in quality to make great sound
• R2R/NOS: The minority of DACs in the market are multibit/R2R, NOS, or any of their variants. That's partly because historically, these DACs contain more finicky, pricey components and/or require more time/labor to build. Plus my pbservation is that many who buy R2R or NOS DACs are seekers of the particular sound these DACs are known for.
  • But here again, implementation is everything. There are some DACs in the category that sell between $500 and $1000 and sound nice. But the bigger, more expensive, overbuilt & overdesigned ones often sound better, sometimes a lot better

I chase R2Rs, primarly NOS DACs, because their sound suits my preferences. For me this meant turning away from the edgy/spotlit upper mids & trebles, unnaturally sharp transients, thin harmonics & overly dry bass of many delta sigma designs; and embracing the natural warmth, weighty lower registers, and unforced/liquid upper mids and trebles of R2R/NOS (which remind me of music IRL).

But your sonic preferences may be totally different from mine. Knowing what they are is the first step to getting a DAC that will really please you and make it want to stay around awhile...

 

[Toonartist]

I’ve recently been through the DAC chasing process. I had in mind the Selekt DSM Katalyst and booked in to my local dealer who stocked them as well as others. I wasn’t a fan of previous Delta Sigma DACs.

I ended up with the Auralic VEGA G2.2. I hadn’t considered them and they also use “part of” a Delta Sima DAC. I love a “full rich” sound so I was very surprised by the VEGA. I found the Linn “Overly Polite” lacking attack and bass to my ears and system. They let me setup my tube amp and cabling etc in store.

So, I agree 100% with the keep an open mind and let them put whatever they have in front of you to try. And, don’t judge a DAC chip from the name. Auralic apparently only use a small part of it and it sounds like no other Delta Sigma DAC I’d heard before!

 

[LXMc]

I have found that if you reach out to some high end audio dealers, some of them would be inclined to loan you gear to try in your system, assuming they have a loaner unit available. Some might ask for a credit card deposit to make sure you don't skip town on them and to ensure that you're a serious buyer as opposed to a tire kicker..

Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with Canadian dealers.

What I would do is narrow down to a few DACs that interest you, find a Canadian dealer of said DACs and reach out to them and see if they can assist you.
Buying blind is a crapshoot at best, and even if you hear the DAC in another person's system, the odds of this DAC sounding the same in your system is slim to none, and Slim just left town.

EDIT: I should add that most of these dealers tend to carry esoteric gear, so thinking outside the box and keeping an open mind is key. If you go looking for a dealer of Schiit, Gustard, Denafrips, Holo, etc you will come up empty.

EDIT#2: Now is actually an excellent time to reach out to audio dealers. Sales are way down from the same time last year and the year before for economic reasons, so these dealers have to pay their bills too and might be more inclined to loan out gear.

There are certainly audio dealers around my area but they don't make themselves readily known, and you're right, much of the stock they carry sits well above what I'm willing/able to shell out. That said I know there are at least a few DACs (and amps for that matter) that will be in range and of interest, so perhaps I'll see if any of these places allow home trials. I know some will let you come in and listen (to headphones anyway, source gear seems more hit & miss) and that's certainly better than blind, but still not ideal.

1 - First and foremost, in DACs as in all things, try to figure out what kind of sound reproduction you prefer. Think back to speakers or headphones (or anything else) that pleased you. Why did it please you? This means knowing where your ears fit on the perpetual audio continuum between forensically detailed, "accurate" sound on one end; and romantic, euphonic, "musical" sound on the other.

There are definitely aspects I'm looking for when I'm reading reviews and impressions that I prioritize. That said, I do need to test out a wider range of gear to hone in on exactly what that is. Right now I probably land somewhere in the middle of the 'hyper-detailed vs musical euphony' scale and soundstage and imaging factor pretty high on the considerations list, if only to experience what that can mean further along the spectrum.

Appreciate all the additional suggestions and insight @Monsterzero & @Pharmaboy

 

[Monsterzero]

you're right, much of the stock they carry sits well above what I'm willing/able to shell out.

I have no idea what your budget and preferred sound is, but you might read up on the Merason Frerot. I have it's big brother, the DAC 1, and it is a very dynamic, spacious and revealing DAC all while remaining quite musical. I'm not up to speed on the Frerot's specs, but the DAC 1 tops out at 24/192. No DSD, no MQA, no up/oversampling. Hand made in Switzerland, they keep it simple with no bells or whistles. Just excellent sound.

Prior to that I had the Lampizator Atlantic TRP, which was also excellent, but much warmer, more laid back and more forgiving of crap recordings and had a rolled off top end, which eventually I found was not the best match for ZMF headphones and my preferences. Lampizator has an entry level DAC, the Ember 3, but that is not cheap and I have no experience with it. @Zachik used to own one I believe.

Prior to that I tried a myriad of DACs, mostly R2R designs, to varying degrees of satisfaction. The Merason and Lampizator were in a totally different league, and price point.

 

[LXMc]

I have no idea what your budget and preferred sound is, but you might read up on the Merason Frerot. I have it's big brother, the DAC 1, and it is a very dynamic, spacious and revealing DAC all while remaining quite musical. I'm not up to speed on the Frerot's specs, but the DAC 1 tops out at 24/192. No DSD, no MQA, no up/oversampling. Hand made in Switzerland, they keep it simple with no bells or whistles. Just excellent sound.

Prior to that I had the Lampizator Atlantic TRP, which was also excellent, but much warmer, more laid back and more forgiving of crap recordings and had a rolled off top end, which eventually I found was not the best match for ZMF headphones and my preferences. Lampizator has an entry level DAC, the Ember 3, but that is not cheap and I have no experience with it. @Zachik used to own one I believe.

Prior to that I tried a myriad of DACs, mostly R2R designs, to varying degrees of satisfaction. The Merason and Lampizator were in a totally different league, and price point.

I remember seeing you suggest the Merason to someone else, don't remember if it was this thread or another - I will certainly look into it more closely.

In terms of budget I'm currently in a bit of a hazy $1-2k USD range. I'm trying to avoid getting astronomical but could stretch as a goal further down the road if something seems worthwhile a bit outside of that. Space is a big deciding factor for me as to what I'll consider; even if price was no object, something like one of the Holo Dacs, for example, are just way too big to consider.

 

[Monsterzero]

The Frerot has a very small footprint. The DAC 1, not so much.