[DifferentDrum]

I posted this in the VC thread, but feel like it belongs here too.

So, I just had the most amazing night with my system and VC's and wanted to share with you all.

We had a family dinner/get together last night, and my Brother and Sister in Law brought over a friend to join us. This friend just happened to be a professional violinist who has played in several bands, and who is also a teacher who teaches children how to play by ear. She teaches the Suzuki Method, which is basically a very old Japanese Theory that is all about total immersion starting at a very young age. She teaches very small children how to learn to play by ear, and is very talented and such a sweet and nice lady. Just to give her even more credit, her boyfriend of which she lives with, is a producer and mixes and masters, so needless to say this women knows what good sound is and how an instrument should sound. So, after dinner she pulled out her $30,000 one of kind violin and started taking request. We could play any song from our phones and she could immediately start playing along. It was as if she could speak with her violin, and she was so good at hearing the notes and knowing exactly how to play along. This was the first time in a very good while I had heard a live instrument and what struck me first was how warm and organic it sounded. It was not a hyper detailed sound at all, and in fact it was much warmer and grander sounding than I had remembered. Her violin filled the entire room and it was amazing how full it sounded for such a small instrument. Her violin was gorgeous by the way with tiger maple back and sides, and was a one off made by several famous luthiers at some festival, and basically each luthier made one part of the violin that they were best at. So, that's why this violin is so rare and expensive. She also had multiple bows all made of different woods with each weighing differently, and that's when I started geeking out, and we started talking about how the different woods change the sound. The talking of different woods and the effects, lead me to tell her about my headphones and how the different woods have an effect on those as well, and this really peaked her interest. So, immediately after she was done playing live for us, we went back to my listening room and fired up my HA300mk2 with my VC's connected and to say her mind was blown would be an understatement. The first song I played for her was Agnes Obel - The Curse, and within a few seconds she literally started crying in amazement, and then the first words out of her mouth as she was wiping the tears away was, "I think I am going to melt". After she said that, she immediately wanted everyone to get a turn listening as she was amazed at how lifelike and right it sounded. She was blown away by the immersiveness, and wanted everyone to hear it. So, being the teacher she is, she had everyone line up and take a listen to experience it for themselves. Prior to this night, I had been the only one in my family to listen to my headphones, so nobody knew what they were in for, and to see the expressions on their faces as they took a listen was priceless. Lastly, at the end of the night when everyone was leaving she looked at me and said her life was changed, and you could see it in her face she was still in awe. The last thing she said to me was, I want to bring my boyfriend over to have a listen and I told her anytime.

Here is a pick of one of the little one's getting his turn to listen, and it was such a blast watching their expressions as they got to hear their favorite songs.



So, what I learned from this night, is that live instruments sound warm and full, and my system is everything I thought it was, and I am so content now I am not interested in any new gear anymore. I know what I have is legit, and the VC's when driven properly are perfection, and my Cayin HA300mk2 does it just right. I was thinking about getting a solid state amp, but that's off the table now as I know they won't bring the warmth and "realness" a good tube amp can bring. Real instruments don't sound hyper detailed and in your face, they have warmth, texture, punch and a full open sound that only a good tube amp and a pair of ZMF's can reproduce correctly in my opinion.

Happy listening and back to musical bliss I go!

Thanks for sharing that story. I enjoyed reading it!

 

[Unterstuffz]

I want to pull the trigger on a Tube Amp for my VC and i am Torn between a Woo Audio Wa2 2nd Edition and a Feliks Audio Echo 2 they are the same price wise i am reading good things about both so i have no clue which to pick.

IT will Play on a Ares 2 R2R dac ... Can someone Recommend me one over the other ?

 

[oldmankensey]

I can’t speak to the Woo but I have Echo 2 with OG Auteur and it has been nothing short of spectacular. Stock tubes are very good if you don’t want to get sucked into the rolling rabbit hole.

 

[Unterstuffz]

I can’t speak to the Woo but I have Echo 2 with OG Auteur and it has been nothing short of spectacular. Stock tubes are very good if you don’t want to get sucked into the rolling rabbit hole.

Thanks sounds good ....indeed if possible i would want to skip that hole tube rolling thing for the moment.

 

[BRH0]

Has anyone tried the Schiit Freya+ with the atrium open? If so could that be well worth it vs spending double on the Feliks audio Elise mkii?
I understand the differences between the two products, but could I get comparable or better sound to the Elise mkii if I took the half I saved on the Freya+ and bought a bunch of extra tubes?
Or would it just be best to go all in with the Elise mkii and not mess with the Freya+?
Or would other Feliks OTL’s like the echo or euforia be better?

This might be a dumb question but im really interested to hear y’all’s feedback here!

 

[mchuckp]

I have Atrium Opens and recently sold my Elise and upgraded to a Euforia Anniversary Edition (basically a Evo without an XLR). I also have a Freya+ doing double duty feeding my speaker amp and a Burson Soloist 3XP for headphones. So I have 2 headphone set ups. I don't know what solid stamp amp you'd be using with the Freya if you got one. My experience with these set ups are that the Elise and the Euforia beats out the Freya+/Burson. I like having the extra set up as I do listen to cans sometimes in that room but my Euforia is my main headphone amp. Not sure where you are going to use your set up but keep in mind that the Freya is pretty big. It's a full size component so make sure you have room for it. Again, it is just a preamp so you still need an amp to go with it. What is nice about the Burson is that it has an option to disable volume control making it simply an amp. Most amps won't do this and you have to deal with two volume controls.

Here are my thoughts on each with the Atriums.

Elise: More tubey than the Euforia. Very nice warm sound. Not bloated. Love the sound. Great for tube rolling.
Euforia AE: For an OTL, it is very clean. I hear more subtle details and separation than the Elise. Not quite as warm but very musical. Certainly not solid state like which to me is on the cold side. Not sure why but tube rolling doesn't have as much effect as Elise.
Freya+/Burson: Burson alone is too cold for me. Adding the Freya+ with good tubes warms up the sound and gives it a better holographic sense but not at the level of the OTLs above. It's not in your face different but better. For tastes, some may prefer it over OTL. I have a sensitivity to treble and the Freya helped remove that.

In the end, if the Freya/Burson was the only thing I've heard, I'm sure I'd be floored by it. It is really good. But dollar for dollar and my personal tastes, I'd take the Elise or Euforia AE over it. Hard to go back once you hear something. I thought the Elise was going to be end game for me until I heard the Euforia. Still having that tube sound but adding in more detail and separation was a winning combo for me with the Atriums. If I never heard it, I'm sure I'd still be happy with my Elise.

I don't think you could go wrong with any of these combos. Comes down to the sound you are looking for, cost, etc. If you like rolling tubes, the Elise is the best choice. I think the Euforia is the best sound but I know some prefer the warmer sound and tube rolling of the Elise. It sounds like you are looking at buying new. Are you considering used? That changes the game a lot in terms of what you can afford. If buying new, the Euforia is only $200 more than the Elise if buying the standard one. I have not heard the one, just the AE. From reviews, I have read the AE is a step up from it but I can't speak to how much better it is. I would say if what I describe above sounds more your liking over the Elise, then the regular Euforia is going to sound nearly the same.

Hope this helps.

 

[BRH0]

This helped me quite a bit!! It sounds like we have pretty similar tastes, I’ve had the Freya+ before and I thought it sounded really good with an atrium I borrowed for a few days from a friend. I haven’t heard any OTL amps. But I think I would probably learn more towards the Elise from your description, at least for now right?
I have 2 diff solid states right now, I have the Ifi pro Ican sign amp and I have the new topping a70 pro which for the price and power, is unreal but it also makes my Diana v2 sound great, no eq nothing added. And my DAC I’m running right now is the Schiit Gumby multibit.
I’ll tell you the short little list I have for headphones right now as I just sold a handful recently. I have the 6xx, Stellias, argon’s mk3, lcd4 and the Diana v2 till my atrium gets delivered.

 

[BRH0]

this will all just be my main set up I use, so Freya size is fine with me. Have you heard anything about the Cayin ha-3a I think it is, their $1500 one?

 

[Pharmaboy]

Stock tubes are very good if you don’t want to get sucked into the rolling rabbit hole.

What about those of us (I'm sure there are one or two) who actually want to get sucked into the tube rolling rabbit hole?

 

[mchuckp]

This helped me quite a bit!! It sounds like we have pretty similar tastes, I’ve had the Freya+ before and I thought it sounded really good with an atrium I borrowed for a few days from a friend. I haven’t heard any OTL amps. But I think I would probably learn more towards the Elise from your description, at least for now right?
I have 2 diff solid states right now, I have the Ifi pro Ican sign amp and I have the new topping a70 pro which for the price and power, is unreal but it also makes my Diana v2 sound great, no eq nothing added. And my DAC I’m running right now is the Schiit Gumby multibit.
I’ll tell you the short little list I have for headphones right now as I just sold a handful recently. I have the 6xx, Stellias, argon’s mk3, lcd4 and the Diana v2 till my atrium gets delivered.

Just keep in mind that OTL amps don't always play nice with planars. Feliks is known to work pretty well with many but not all. I really enjoyed my HFM HE1000v2 on the Elise. I sold those and only have the Atriums and don't plan on buying any others for quite a while. They fit my preferences perfectly. Some of what you own may not but I have no experience to tell you which. You also mentioned the Cayin. Those will play nice with planars as it isn't an OTL but I haven't heard one. In considered getting that Cayin amp before I found my Elise on the used market.

Good luck!

 

[AudioPowerHead]

this will all just be my main set up I use, so Freya size is fine with me. Have you heard anything about the Cayin ha-3a I think it is, their $1500 one?

Do have transformer-coupled amps like Cayin HA-3A as part of consideration if you have plans to get planar headphones down the road. OTLs are great but more so for dynamic headphones.

 

[oldmankensey]

What about those of us (I'm sure there are one or two) who actually want to get sucked into the tube rolling rabbit hole?

I think it’s hard to resist, isn’t it? I didn’t want to myself, and now I have tubes from India on the way to me this week.

 

[Monsterzero]

What about those of us (I'm sure there are one or two) who actually want to get sucked into the tube rolling rabbit hole?

 

[omega1990]

Reposting my experience with the decware zmf otl amp:

Just got the decware otl amp and I'm glad I picked one up. While I really liked headphones like the Atrium and Atticus on 300b, I preferred my aeolus and verites on my otl amp the schitt folkvangr. After living with the folkvangr for a while I wondered if I could get more out of an otl design. From what I've read otl amps usually max out in capabilites around the price of the schitt folkvangr and getting any more improvements to the sound should probably be spent on other types of tube amps unless you go crazy on a maybe a diy build. It seems like it would be a challenge to improve the otl design.

My aeolus is my overall favorite headphone ever and I wanted to know if I could somehow get more than what the folkvangr offered and so I talked to Zach about this decware colab amp. After hearing it I can confirm it is an upgrade from my folkvangr. I'm surprised the otl design can be pushed even further.

The decware one is cleaner with less resonces than the folkvangr. The bass on the decware also hits hard like the schitt otl, but the decware has a more deeper fuller sounding bass (a strong punch with better extension at the bottom). I had no issues with the speed of the folkvangr but the decware one is noticeably faster.

Stage and imaging on the decware has a blacker background but still presents a super smooth and lush sound I expected from an otl amp. Sounds are more holographic than on the folkvangr. I don't have much experience with tube amps but if you do own alot of dynamic headphones like zmfs and sennheisers, this amp is very impressive, especially for the size as it is long but not wide. Its also not as heavy as my other amps, but its sound does compete with the best amps I have. I'm surprised an amp this compact is so capable that it competes with my agartha and king amp.

The lush sweet sound from tube amps like this decware one is where I prefer to be with my aeolus. Now I just gotta get an atrium closed and I'll have all the zmf dynamics released so far to enjoy on this amp.

Thanks zach915m

 

[omega1990]

Just in case anyone wanted to know more about other amps I have or previously owned. Another repost:

All 3 of my tube amps are very different from each other.

Schitt folkvangr: is the most intimate sounding of my tube amps, but still adds a sense of depth. Bass is on the punchy side and can hit the hardest out of the 3, but has less subbass rumble than the other 3. It can make my zmfs hit as hard as the abyss 1266. Mids are rich and fun. The treble adds resonance to my ears which helps create a sense of space but that is up to you if you like that effect. Treble also sounds a touch rolled off so it does well with bright headphones, but can make dark headphones sound too closed in and dark. You may need to tube roll if you are using darker headphones, lcd 4 was a no go, but lcd 24 is fantastic on it. Could be endgame for me when using my zmf aeolus and verite open.

Audeze king mk2: a rarely spoken about amp since so few have heard them. The original version was more tube sounding than the mk2 version I have. Mk1 was designed to sort of fix the lcd 4 in that it adds to the upper mid recessions and smooths out/increase treble presence which on a solid state can come off as dark. The mk1 had a somewhat boxed in soundstage but good depth, and a sense of I wanna say diffusion? The imaging sounded a little deliberately smeared. Now the mk2 version I have is more neutral with a big bass boost. Less tube sounding but still has some tube effect for smoothing the treble and adding depth. Soundstage on the mk2 verison is free of the boxed in effect of the mk1 version, so stage is overal wider and better defined (blacker background too). Instead of fixing the lcd 4, the mk2 version let's the lcd 4 rock out where it matters most, adding to its already great bass. Mk2 has a super physical, large bass impact, but it is a evenly presented bass vs the folkvangr that emphasizes midbass punch. If you have a headphone with rolled off bass, this amp will help with that while staying neutral, so it won't radically change the frequency response of your headphone for better or worse depending on the headphone you use. Mids on mk2 are less liquid than the mk1 version and sounds more like a solid state amp to me. This amp sounds fantastic with audeze headphones, but since zmfs have a similar sound they also sound great on this one. It's overall a reference sound with tube staging effects and a bass boost.

Ampsandsound agartha: I only put in a few hours in today. The most tubey sounding amp I've ever heard so mid range bloom effects. Agartha has a thick/phat bass. Yes rap and edm has a lot of rumble from this amp. Bass can be big on this but it is not forceful as folkvangr in punch, agartha is the most nuanced across the board and bass has a softer full weight vs audeze kings more super tight/physical even bass impact (solid sate bass but boosted). Agartha sounds uniquely ethereal and delicate. My Atticus on this amp reminds me of my estats and despite being so tubey, it does not sound slow at all (don't know how it does that). Infact, I'm surprised the Atticus sounds so well seperated without sounding muddy (must be 300b magic or something). Its tubey without a syrupy slowdown effect. Will need to try my other zmf with this one eventually. Agartha has the most spacious sound of the 3 tube amps I have, and vocals sound the most real on this one so far. This amp seems to be pulling me closer to all the details and is surprisingly transparent. The agartha is very even sounding despite having a somewhat phat bass, it does not overpower the rest of the sound to my ears so far anyway. So folkvangr adds richness to the music and intimacy, but agartha adds spaciousness and I wanna say realism? Sadly the agartha rarely ever comes up on the second hand market. I would put up a wanted amp incase anyone else wants to try and get an argatha themselves. Also, the agartha picks up noise like nobody's business. Even the schitt folvangr which measures likes schitt picks up less noise than agartha, but when music plays, no hum is heard on either of them.