[holden4th]

Interesting line-up. I think the HD580 Flatplate 2nd gen is slightly less forgiving and plainer than the silver screen HD600. The HD600 is also slightly more fatiguing. This line-up appears to be based on transparency/purity rather than 'fun'. I would place the raised nameplate 3rd/4th versions between the black screen HD600 and HD650 from what I remember of my 3rd version. Looking at this from a resolution/accuracy perspective old>new except the silver HD600 which is a little sad in a certain way. Markets don't have a soul. It wouldn't surprise me if the HD580 gen1 made in Germany slotted in after the Jubilee. Surprising your friend liked the Jubilee as much as the £5000 Susvara, perhaps with longer aquaintance that might change. Would be great if you could review the sublime Jubilees, there's virtually nothing on the internet about them.

Based on that comment I auditioned both my 3rd Gen HD580 and the 6XX which is about four months old. When I got the 6XX (which every says is a 650 in all but name) I was disappointed but wanted to hear these legendary cans. Well, they've grown on me and whether that's because they've begun to burn in I don't know but I think they sound much better than when I got them. Now I've never heard the 600s so can only go by descriptions from here. Based on my audition, using classical music only, I would have to agree with the underlined statement from Sefelt103

My findings (HD600 is speculative only) are in terms of perceived sound:

Bass Depth - HD600 < HD580 < HD650
Bass Slam - HD600 < HD580 < HD650
Mid Range depth and warmth - HD600 < HD580 < HD650
Mid Range clarity HD650 < HD580
Treble Clarity HD650 < HD580 < HD600
Soundstage: HD650/580 tied

From what I can gather the 600 would probably the best for monitoring purposes. For listening to classical and instrumental music the HD580 beats the HD650 hands down. Doing an A/B comparison the 650 sounds muffled and coarse compared to the 580. The 650 bass, while fuller, was indistinct compared to the clean presentation from the 580s.

This raises an old chestnut - the Sennheiser 'veil'. I can now see where this comes from. The 650 sounds veiled in comparison to its sibling. I drove both through my Burson DAC/Amp which has more the enough power to drive either of these so it's not a case of scaling up to get the best results for the 650.

So when I want to listen to rock/pop/EDM/etc and I can't be bothered using my iems then the 650s will be my go to. For all classical the HD580s are the go.

 

[Sefelt103]

The HD650 or (HD6xx) I think is the most 'fun' sounding of the line up. From what I've read the HD660S steps back a little. The early versions of the HD650 were very dark and bassy and then with the silver driver screen they reduced the bass a little. I've always thought of the Beyerdynamic DT 880 as an opposite (light thin bass and sharp treble). The HD650 in my experience takes a little while to adjust to as it is going quite far down the thick, euphonic, lush road. Directly compared to the HD580 (3rd version dark driver screen) it will seem thin/bass light and trebly initially. Going the other way the HD650 seems overly bassy with no treble. I don't listen to classical music although some say my DT 880 is ideal for this as lean bass and aggressive treble doesn't seem to affect the mostly mid-range of classical music. The HD650 will make classical music seem a little fuller compared to the HD580, its target is pop/rock music where is has a very smooth, relaxing, pleasing tonality. The HD600 is a bit less relaxing and more neutral but still contains some of the thickness and a little extra bass as well as less rolled off treble. As for soundstage this line of headphones doesn't have much because mid-range is fairly flat and doesn't roll off in the upper mid-range before a sharp treble peak which is often the technique to give the illusion of faraway sounds. The HD580 (2nd version) is a headphone with virtually no soundstage (unless the recording has a wide image). The HD600/650 are a little wider but not much.

 

[holden4th]

The HD650 or (HD6xx) I think is the most 'fun' sounding of the line up. From what I've read the HD660S steps back a little. The early versions of the HD650 were very dark and bassy and then with the silver driver screen they reduced the bass a little. I've always thought of the Beyerdynamic DT 880 as an opposite (light thin bass and sharp treble). The HD650 in my experience takes a little while to adjust to as it is going quite far down the thick, euphonic, lush road. Directly compared to the HD580 (3rd version dark driver screen) it will seem thin/bass light and trebly initially. Going the other way the HD650 seems overly bassy with no treble. I don't listen to classical music although some say my DT 880 is ideal for this as lean bass and aggressive treble doesn't seem to affect the mostly mid-range of classical music. The HD650 will make classical music seem a little fuller compared to the HD580, its target is pop/rock music where is has a very smooth, relaxing, pleasing tonality. The HD600 is a bit less relaxing and more neutral but still contains some of the thickness and a little extra bass as well as less rolled off treble. As for soundstage this line of headphones doesn't have much because mid-range is fairly flat and doesn't roll off in the upper mid-range before a sharp treble peak which is often the technique to give the illusion of faraway sounds. The HD580 (2nd version) is a headphone with virtually no soundstage (unless the recording has a wide image). The HD600/650 are a little wider but not much.

I agree with what you've said. For certain music the 650 is a very fun headphone and when you consider how some CDs were mastered in the 60s and 70s this is probably a good thing. But let's take DSOTM. A great master copy can bring out things that the 650 will might miss. This is when I reach for my Flare Gold iems. (even the Flare R2A is superior to the 650 in all aspects). So do I just want to relax with some music or have a really good listen. With the former I just throw on the 650s. I still reckon they might have quite a bit of burn in time left.

 

[dleblanc343]

Listening time. Will try and post in depth comparisons soon

 

[dleblanc343]

Tonight HD580J vs HD600 Black silk.

 

[Majestyk]

Based on that comment I auditioned both my 3rd Gen HD580 and the 6XX which is about four months old. When I got the 6XX (which every says is a 650 in all but name) I was disappointed but wanted to hear these legendary cans. Well, they've grown on me and whether that's because they've begun to burn in I don't know but I think they sound much better than when I got them. Now I've never heard the 600s so can only go by descriptions from here. Based on my audition, using classical music only, I would have to agree with the underlined statement from Sefelt103

My findings (HD600 is speculative only) are in terms of perceived sound:

Bass Depth - HD600 < HD580 < HD650
Bass Slam - HD600 < HD580 < HD650
Mid Range depth and warmth - HD600 < HD580 < HD650
Mid Range clarity HD650 < HD580
Treble Clarity HD650 < HD580 < HD600
Soundstage: HD650/580 tied

From what I can gather the 600 would probably the best for monitoring purposes. For listening to classical and instrumental music the HD580 beats the HD650 hands down. Doing an A/B comparison the 650 sounds muffled and coarse compared to the 580. The 650 bass, while fuller, was indistinct compared to the clean presentation from the 580s.

This raises an old chestnut - the Sennheiser 'veil'. I can now see where this comes from. The 650 sounds veiled in comparison to its sibling. I drove both through my Burson DAC/Amp which has more the enough power to drive either of these so it's not a case of scaling up to get the best results for the 650.

So when I want to listen to rock/pop/EDM/etc and I can't be bothered using my iems then the 650s will be my go to. For all classical the HD580s are the go.

I have a pair of black cloth 600's with new white cloth drivers/capsules. The soundstage is wider than my 650's (which I just sold) and my 6XX. Recently I bought a pair of new '2019' HD600's and the soundstage on my old 600's is wider as well.

On the old 600's I've noticed the cups and old capsules have a slightly more rugged feeling (and looking) material than my new white cloth capsules, the new 600's and my 6XX. From looking at various photos it would seem this material changed around 2014 when Sennheiser went from the outer box with the 'ridges' to the nicer looking black and blue box. (Or the inner box with the blue Sennheiser name vs the one with the Sennheiser logo).

My old 600's are also quite a bit brighter than the 2019 600's. Both had brand new Sennheiser pads, which were the same.

I'm beginning to wonder if this material (particularly on the cups since my new white capsules have the newer material) are responsible for this sound signature. According to Sennheiser, the cloth itself made no difference in sound.

 

[kman1211]

The HD650 or (HD6xx) I think is the most 'fun' sounding of the line up. From what I've read the HD660S steps back a little. The early versions of the HD650 were very dark and bassy and then with the silver driver screen they reduced the bass a little. I've always thought of the Beyerdynamic DT 880 as an opposite (light thin bass and sharp treble). The HD650 in my experience takes a little while to adjust to as it is going quite far down the thick, euphonic, lush road. Directly compared to the HD580 (3rd version dark driver screen) it will seem thin/bass light and trebly initially. Going the other way the HD650 seems overly bassy with no treble. I don't listen to classical music although some say my DT 880 is ideal for this as lean bass and aggressive treble doesn't seem to affect the mostly mid-range of classical music. The HD650 will make classical music seem a little fuller compared to the HD580, its target is pop/rock music where is has a very smooth, relaxing, pleasing tonality. The HD600 is a bit less relaxing and more neutral but still contains some of the thickness and a little extra bass as well as less rolled off treble. As for soundstage this line of headphones doesn't have much because mid-range is fairly flat and doesn't roll off in the upper mid-range before a sharp treble peak which is often the technique to give the illusion of faraway sounds. The HD580 (2nd version) is a headphone with virtually no soundstage (unless the recording has a wide image). The HD600/650 are a little wider but not much.

I would say the HD 660 S is the most fun while a bit less present in the upper mids than the HD 650/6XX it has a stronger leading edge than the other HD 6xx series headphones which imho makes it more engaging and fun. It’s presentation is fairly different and it’s not as soft and flowing sounding and it loses some of the romance the HD 650 has. It has sharper and more precise imaging than any of the other HD 6xx lineup. The different drivers and impedance does change things up a bit.

 

[Sefelt103]

There does seem to be a tendency for headphone manufacturers to go toward 'fun' sound signatures these days. Presumably it's the advantage of widening the audience available and the sales that result. Purist tyres of headphones are now rare and exceptionally expensive. Modern headphones seem to be targeted at people who want a certain amount of quality (but not excessive/accuracy), don't want a headphone amplifier and easy driveability. The target audience wants many 'amendments' to the sound like increased attack, euphonic distortion, elevated bass etc. and diversion from the recording is not a primary consideration. The target audience listens to compressed files on 'phones or some on dedicated media players. They also like the convenience of a headphone that subtly compresses the audio image and has a large soundstage. So modern headphones although they have the potential to actually have more objective sound quality than 25 years ago often have less objective sound quality but more general appeal to larger and perhaps more indifferent audiences as regards purity (and faithful accurate sound that makes poor recordings sound terrible.) So there's this funny reversal where older tech. becomes superior to the genuine audiophile than potentially superior headphones (with computer design aids) that doesn't deliver because the target audience is different. kman1211 you've certainly observed this phenomenon in Beyerdynamic's T1,T1.2 and T1.3. Each version has a different target audience with the 1.3 having the FR rotated clockwise giving a much warmer soothing sound than the original's neutral/bright sound. For me wanting the 'fun' in the recording (if any) rather than the headphone and disliking 'warm' headphones inverts the values and makes the older versions superior to the newer.

 

[Art Garfunkel]

Listening time. Will try and post in depth comparisons soon

So how do they compare soundwise?

 

[kman1211]

There does seem to be a tendency for headphone manufacturers to go toward 'fun' sound signatures these days. Presumably it's the advantage of widening the audience available and the sales that result. Purist tyres of headphones are now rare and exceptionally expensive. Modern headphones seem to be targeted at people who want a certain amount of quality (but not excessive/accuracy), don't want a headphone amplifier and easy driveability. The target audience wants many 'amendments' to the sound like increased attack, euphonic distortion, elevated bass etc. and diversion from the recording is not a primary consideration. The target audience listens to compressed files on 'phones or some on dedicated media players. They also like the convenience of a headphone that subtly compresses the audio image and has a large soundstage. So modern headphones although they have the potential to actually have more objective sound quality than 25 years ago often have less objective sound quality but more general appeal to larger and perhaps more indifferent audiences as regards purity (and faithful accurate sound that makes poor recordings sound terrible.) So there's this funny reversal where older tech. becomes superior to the genuine audiophile than potentially superior headphones (with computer design aids) that doesn't deliver because the target audience is different. kman1211 you've certainly observed this phenomenon in Beyerdynamic's T1,T1.2 and T1.3. Each version has a different target audience with the 1.3 having the FR rotated clockwise giving a much warmer soothing sound than the original's neutral/bright sound. For me wanting the 'fun' in the recording (if any) rather than the headphone and disliking 'warm' headphones inverts the values and makes the older versions superior to the newer.

There has definitely been a change and in regards to the T1.2 vs T1.3, it’s obvious the T1.3 is superior technically to the T1.2 to me but they took a very different approach on the tuning and it alienated many Beyer fans. The T1.3 is a strange and controversial headphone, never heard anything like it. I feel the T1.3 was more Beyer doing something completely different with tuning not just cranking up the warmth or making the headphone fun, still not quite sure what they were trying to achieve with it, but it’s audio image is less compressed than the gen 2’s. I’m not a huge fan of a compressed audio image and headphones that artificially make their soundstage seem bigger than they are by making the audio image smaller. I don’t have a HD 6xx series headphone right now, but I do have the HD 560 S I’m trying out of curiosity, it’s a bit too bright but a bigger complaint I do have about it is that it compresses the audio image some, especially compared to the HD 600, 650, and HD 660 S, this becomes more notable on higher end systems and good recordings.

I’ve never really thought newer headphones were necessarily better, some of the older stuff does have better technicalities even, a lot is simply a change in tuning and I don’t think enough people quite realize that. I feel the HD 6xx lineup is a series a headphones that adhere to a more traditional and old-school tuning and that’s a good thing as not many newer headphones have that type of tuning.

 

[dleblanc343]

So how do they compare soundwise?

Jubilee sounds more similar to the HD600 Black Silk than the HD580 does.

Jubilee:
- Most diffuse field of all HD6xx series ever made.
- Best treble detail, and notably sharper than 580 FP Ireland, but slightly less metallic than HD600 Blk Silk
- Bass had more prat and fast decay. A bit dry
- Sounds the most holographic
- Most detailed and transparent

HD580 Flat Plate (Ireland)
- Hint of the famous "veil" but very tasteful analog timbre
- Bass has more fuzziness and more natural timbre
- High are sweeter, more forgiving
- Sounds very, very natural
- More musical, but nice blend of technicalities, especially for the era.

My top 3 are very close to each other but it would go like this:
1. HD580 Jubilee
2. HD600 Black Silk
3. HD580 Flat Plate

The variance between them is notable, but you can hear they're all similar by nature.

 

[Majestyk]

That pretty much describes my black cloth HD600's, even though they now have white cloth capsules. The cups (not sure about the grills) are not the same material as the later 600's.

 

[Art Garfunkel]

Jubilee sounds more similar to the HD600 Black Silk than the HD580 does.

Jubilee:
- Most diffuse field of all HD6xx series ever made.
- Best treble detail, and notably sharper than 580 FP Ireland, but slightly less metallic than HD600 Blk Silk
- Bass had more prat and fast decay. A bit dry
- Sounds the most holographic
- Most detailed and transparent

HD580 Flat Plate (Ireland)
- Hint of the famous "veil" but very tasteful analog timbre
- Bass has more fuzziness and more natural timbre
- High are sweeter, more forgiving
- Sounds very, very natural
- More musical, but nice blend of technicalities, especially for the era.

My top 3 are very close to each other but it would go like this:
1. HD580 Jubilee
2. HD600 Black Silk
3. HD580 Flat Plate

The variance between them is notable, but you can hear they're all similar by nature.

Thanks so much for your detailed observations and comparison. Those HD580 Jubilee are quite rare and your picture is the first I have ever seen of them. They were the prototype of the original HD600, with the carbon fibre.

 

[bifcake]

They used the same drivers as the HD600

 

[thekenta]

Got lucky and picked up these bad boys (Irish version) for just 40€.
The pads need to be replaced (Any recommendations? Was planning on getting the replacement earpads from Thomann), but overall this was better than any Black Friday deal could have been.