[Dsnuts]

I got my velours today which was a surprise on a Saturday. .. I can confirm these do change the sounds in a good way. The bass impact is decreased ever so slightly. Which can be a good thing. But minimal at best. I noticed on the same bass heavy tracks that previously would vibrate my outer ear would not vibrate my ear as much if at all, however I think this is due to less pressure in the cups which makes sense.. Bass extension and presence in the same tune has barely any differences. I think the biggest change for me is the highs. The highs noticeably has more presence in the same tune giving the tune a bit more detail and clarity. So I will 2nd what Malveaux wrote on his impressions with the Velours..These do balance out the sounds a bit more which improves the sound while adding comfort for hours of listening. Worth the $20 they ask online easy.
 
For the guys that are impressed and like the HTF600 and plan on adding these to your stable of phones. The velours are an easy recommend maybe for a later purchase... For the guys that deem these phones just another budget can, I think your $20 is best spent on something else that will suit your taste a bit more..
 

 

[lossfizzle]

Malveaux, interesting comparison. I've spent most of my big bucks in my life on speakers / amps and am just getting around to >$100 phones, so have never heard any of the higher-end Senns. I guess where the Panasonics disappoint me a bit is in fact *totally* in terms of their energy, sparkle, and impact-- it's very surprising to hear that the $500 Senns have less of this, even as a monitor-styled high-end phone.
 
I wonder if you can clarify what you mean by "bass reverb", a term I keep hearing you use in your assessments in this thread. Is it added harmonics? Mid-bass push? I don't really get the sense of being "slapped around" by the HTFs in the bass either, but I would think that smearing time-domain transients in the bass, as reverb in the conventional sense normally does, would be a generally negative thing (I don't hear the HTFs doing this, though).

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

I wonder if you can clarify what you mean by "bass reverb", a term I keep hearing you use in your assessments in this thread. Is it added harmonics? Mid-bass push? I don't really get the sense of being "slapped around" by the HTFs in the bass either, but I would think that smearing time-domain transients in the bass, as reverb in the conventional sense normally does, would be a generally negative thing (I don't hear the HTFs doing this, though).

Heya,
 
Sure, consider:
Quote:

Reverberation - is the persistence of sound in a particular space after the original sound is removed. A reverberation, or reverb, is created when a sound is produced in an enclosed space causing a large number of echoes to build up and then slowly decay as the sound is absorbed by the walls and air.

Now think of bass. Bass that doesn't reverb rolls off quickly and you don't get that lasting impression of a deep impact or low tone that hums it self away as it just disappears so quickly that you don't feel it happened perhaps. Bass that impacts, then hangs around a tiny bit more, has that yummy warm bassy feel to it that feels like it just keeps on going and just fills you up and you don't feel like it's lost right after impact. Some don't want this effect, they want accuracy. Some of us, especially bassheads, want this effect, when we want a fun warm bassy sound that is really full bodied feeling/sounding.
 
Slapped around is only in comparison to another headphone that does not have energy. You'd have to compare it to something that is so laid back that you end up checking your EQ or connections to make sure it's even plugged in or turned on right... For me, it was that big of a deal, so I used that language. Perhaps exaggerated, but the meaning should be a little more understandable with that explanation.
 
Very best,

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

Heya,
 
So... here's something interesting. I mentioned it before, and so did someone else. So I got out the HD650's to actually just A-B them. Now, I'll just warn a few of you now, hold onto your pants, remain calm, this is merely my opinion and not anything more. If you can handle comparing the HD650 to a $50 headphone setup (HTF600 + Velour Pads), in a clam manner, then by all means continue below. Otherwise, I suggest clicking away immediately at risk of elevating blood pressure or the uncontrollable need to quote war. Hah, I kid, I kid...
 

Panasonic RP-HTF600 vs. Sennheiser HD650
 
So I compared these two, just like in my review, simply because it's a sound signature that I thought was similar. But after re-comparing them with the pad update, that changed quite a bit. Even before, they were only kind of similar, but still not that similar. And I figured out what made them so not similar, it was the treble. The HTF600 simply has brighter treble. It's a more sparkly headphone compared to the HD650, but hey, what headphone isn't? Right? The HD650 is just dark. That term really does describe it because even when I crank the volume up on the HD650 on my Lyr, it's still a very subdued sleeping giant which is always confusing to me (and one of the reasons it's not a headphone that I prefer really, I like energy, the HD650 lacks it for me). The HD650 is more refined, for sure. But guess what, they're both comfortable, pretty much equally. The Panasonic actually clamped less hard than the HD650 (odd, but true). The bass was pretty similar. The HD650 isn't actually that bassy, it's just bassy for a Sennheiser. But even then, it's still not all that bassy because it doesn't have a massive reverb. It just hits the note, is accurate, and then it rolls off and it's done. It doesn't punch you that hard, and it doesn't reverb. So depending on what kind of bass you're after, even though they're similar, the Panasonic just reverbs more and slaps you around a bit more. It will give you the impression of more quantity. That doesn't mean it's higher quality though, the HD650 likely has better quality, more controlled, but when I listened back and forth, regardless of what I know should be true, I ended up enjoying the RP-HTF600 for bass and for it's more sparkly (by comparison) and musical presentation. The HD650 is actually an incredibly boring headphone (for me) to listen to. It's not bright at all, it sounds like it's all being played through a tissue paper to soften it in all regards. So it becomes a very smooth listen, but I feel the energy is lost and it's just not as fun (again, for me). So funny enough, I'd rather listen to the HTF600 with velour pads than the HD650. I just ran them through my slew of musics that I generally test. And it just held true on each track. Makes no sense. Now, to put a balance on this massively charged statement, I prefer my HE-500 over both these headphones, as it absolutely smashes the Panasonics in sound, and eats the HD650's lunch. So it's not that I'm just being a fanboy for the Panasonic. But I am saying, I enjoy the energy and sound of the Panasonic over the HD650 which sounds sleepy to me and really doesn't have the same bassy reverb that I crave from a "bassy" headphone. Plus, again, I like to have some musical mids & highs, brigtness, and energy. Simply my preference. But hey, free information for you, right? Right.
 
Oh, and I just tested versus some Vmoda Crossfade LP's that I got for cheap. I'm not even going to get into it, but man, the Crossfades are a joke of a headphone for the cost when referring to sound quality. It's one of the only times I've ever held a headphone and listened to it, and said, "All the price went into the packaging and construction of the headphone, they left a few pennies for the sound and... it definitely sounds like pennies." In other words, the Panasonic eats the lunch of the Crossfade's sound quality and abilities with sound. The construction of the Crossfade is absoulutely great and solid (love the metal, the cords that are detachable, volume controls, sheathed cables, nice padding, chrome metal backing, etc, they're nice heavy solid metal headphones with a nice carry case and stuff). But the construction is the only thing it has going for it. They sound unimpressive to say the least, especially when I compare the cost and look at value from that ratio. They are low value in my book due to that.
 
Now, let's see if I get cabbages thrown at me...
 
Very best,

Wow. Thats a bold statement indeedy . You do state that it is a matter of your sound preference.. I know many won't see it this way but I am in the same boat. I have many a higher end headphone that don't match up to the sheer bliss in the bass or the over all energy in the sounds. My hiphop collection is taking on a whole new meaning with my panasonics..Now even better with the velours..I knew these would appeal to you Malveaux but not to this extent.. That is just awesome.! I suppose if any throw some cabbage I will gladly take some too..Cabbage soup? Throw it.
 
 

 

[nick n]

So just to clarify, the velour pads are what size roughly or for what particular model listings equivalents?  Oh ok found it Beyerdynamic 200 etc/ Sony MDR7506 or similar
pads thanks for the PM.

 

[lossfizzle]

Quote:

Heya,
 
Sure, consider:
Now think of bass. Bass that doesn't reverb rolls off quickly and you don't get that lasting impression of a deep impact or low tone that hums it self away as it just disappears so quickly that you don't feel it happened perhaps. Bass that impacts, then hangs around a tiny bit more, has that yummy warm bassy feel to it that feels like it just keeps on going and just fills you up and you don't feel like it's lost right after impact. Some don't want this effect, they want accuracy. Some of us, especially bassheads, want this effect, when we want a fun warm bassy sound that is really full bodied feeling/sounding.
 
Slapped around is only in comparison to another headphone that does not have energy. You'd have to compare it to something that is so laid back that you end up checking your EQ or connections to make sure it's even plugged in or turned on right... For me, it was that big of a deal, so I used that language. Perhaps exaggerated, but the meaning should be a little more understandable with that explanation.
 
Very best,

Interesting - thanks for the clarification. I honestly haven't heard any phones that do that, or maybe we're hearing it differently... now, I have definitely heard rooms that do that
 
With all the specific preferences and bass connoisseurs out there, there's gotta be a market for good music for bassheads. There used to be the DJ Magic Mike type thing when I was growing up... that wasn't good music, unfortunately. Off to buy a few 15s and get to work...

 

[JCH-19]

What are the hardest hitting bass songs for these?

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

What are the hardest hitting bass songs for these?

Heya,
 
Hardest hitting? A recording of a snare drum at like 6 inches at full volume maybe. But most people don't like hard hitting sound, it hurts you ears. Now, if you were referring to lowest drop, ie, lowest sudden tone played at a low frequency like 30~50hz (sub bass), then basically any dubstep track at 0:55 seconds. Or look up some stuff by Bassnectar. One of my favorite tracks is "Everyday" by Rusko. Most of the YouTube rips of it are awful recordings with the volumes altered for some reason, I have an untouched track and it's got a great sound, good drop, and when I test it on the home theater and compare to a headphone, it does have a nice drop that occurs that on a good pair of bassy headphones gives you a pretty good representation of what it sounds like on a real sub (minus of course the chest wall impact and bowel rumbling, hah). And you can also just go on youtube and search "subwhoofer test" or "megabass" or "super bass" and  you'll get tons of videos of prerecorded bass tones. Another good method is to use software like audacity and just set up your own tones, choose the Hertz for the tone and make your own test tracks of tones to check bass. Just do frequency sweeps.
 
Very best,

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

What are the hardest hitting bass songs for these?

Listen to a few of these that are on this thread.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/544388/electronic-music-exchange-house-dnb-dubstep-etc

 

[BBlord]

I have to say that with some more burn in not only did the bass fill out (and actually start vibrating my ear), but I sort of hear more detail in the mids and highs as well.  The clarity is just superior to the MEP/Kickers that only a week ago or so blew me away for the cost.  

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

I have to say that with some more burn in not only did the bass fill out (and actually start vibrating my ear), but I sort of hear more detail in the mids and highs as well.  The clarity is just superior to the MEP/Kickers that only a week ago or so blew me away for the cost.  

To be fair the mono/kickers was and still is a good buy but you can tell just how much these are superior in every way. I am glad you like these. I think the sounds and functions of both headphones are different enough to have both... I like that the mono/kickers are fully closed, can be used for portable use and isolate well while these Panasonics are more for home use.
 
On an interesting note. A guy that works for Kicker just today chimed in on one of the older kicker reviews and he says the kickers were reverse engineered from a famous GERMAN make. hmmm with added bass.. I wonder what phone he was talking about.. They do sound superior to your average budget can.  Welcome aboard the HTF600- Stepping thread BBlord..
 

 

[jm78]

Just tried out my 600 on counterstrike source.  Was using dolby headphone and the 600 sounded much better than my koss ksc-75.  All sounds including footsteps are more detailed and positioning is much better.  Gunshots have more weight to them.  I especially noticed the change in shotgun blasts, making it more satisfying to shoot.  The awp sniper rifle has a more visceral feel as well.  I think these will be excellent headphones for battlefield 3.

 

[gelocks]

Quote:

Heya,
 
So... here's something interesting. I mentioned it before, and so did someone else. So I got out the HD650's to actually just A-B them. Now, I'll just warn a few of you now, hold onto your pants, remain calm, this is merely my opinion and not anything more. If you can handle comparing the HD650 to a $50 headphone setup (HTF600 + Velour Pads), in a clam manner, then by all means continue below. Otherwise, I suggest clicking away immediately at risk of elevating blood pressure or the uncontrollable need to quote war. Hah, I kid, I kid...
 

Panasonic RP-HTF600 vs. Sennheiser HD650
 
So I compared these two, just like in my review, simply because it's a sound signature that I thought was similar. But after re-comparing them with the pad update, that changed quite a bit. Even before, they were only kind of similar, but still not that similar. And I figured out what made them so not similar, it was the treble. The HTF600 simply has brighter treble. It's a more sparkly headphone compared to the HD650, but hey, what headphone isn't? Right? The HD650 is just dark. That term really does describe it because even when I crank the volume up on the HD650 on my Lyr, it's still a very subdued sleeping giant which is always confusing to me (and one of the reasons it's not a headphone that I prefer really, I like energy, the HD650 lacks it for me). The HD650 is more refined, for sure. But guess what, they're both comfortable, pretty much equally. The Panasonic actually clamped less hard than the HD650 (odd, but true). The bass was pretty similar. The HD650 isn't actually that bassy, it's just bassy for a Sennheiser. But even then, it's still not all that bassy because it doesn't have a massive reverb. It just hits the note, is accurate, and then it rolls off and it's done. It doesn't punch you that hard, and it doesn't reverb. So depending on what kind of bass you're after, even though they're similar, the Panasonic just reverbs more and slaps you around a bit more. It will give you the impression of more quantity. That doesn't mean it's higher quality though, the HD650 likely has better quality, more controlled, but when I listened back and forth, regardless of what I know should be true, I ended up enjoying the RP-HTF600 for bass and for it's more sparkly (by comparison) and musical presentation. The HD650 is actually an incredibly boring headphone (for me) to listen to. It's not bright at all, it sounds like it's all being played through a tissue paper to soften it in all regards. So it becomes a very smooth listen, but I feel the energy is lost and it's just not as fun (again, for me). So funny enough, I'd rather listen to the HTF600 with velour pads than the HD650. I just ran them through my slew of musics that I generally test. And it just held true on each track. Makes no sense. Now, to put a balance on this massively charged statement, I prefer my HE-500 over both these headphones, as it absolutely smashes the Panasonics in sound, and eats the HD650's lunch. So it's not that I'm just being a fanboy for the Panasonic. But I am saying, I enjoy the energy and sound of the Panasonic over the HD650 which sounds sleepy to me and really doesn't have the same bassy reverb that I crave from a "bassy" headphone. Plus, again, I like to have some musical mids & highs, brigtness, and energy. Simply my preference. But hey, free information for you, right? Right.
 
Oh, and I just tested versus some Vmoda Crossfade LP's that I got for cheap. I'm not even going to get into it, but man, the Crossfades are a joke of a headphone for the cost when referring to sound quality. It's one of the only times I've ever held a headphone and listened to it, and said, "All the price went into the packaging and construction of the headphone, they left a few pennies for the sound and... it definitely sounds like pennies." In other words, the Panasonic eats the lunch of the Crossfade's sound quality and abilities with sound. The construction of the Crossfade is absoulutely great and solid (love the metal, the cords that are detachable, volume controls, sheathed cables, nice padding, chrome metal backing, etc, they're nice heavy solid metal headphones with a nice carry case and stuff). But the construction is the only thing it has going for it. They sound unimpressive to say the least, especially when I compare the cost and look at value from that ratio. They are low value in my book due to that.
 
Now, let's see if I get cabbages thrown at me...
 
Very best,

 
Interesting.
I've heard that the HD650s were not as energetic with some genres but my HD600s actually do a great job with everything I
have thrown at it. Comparing directly to the pannys, I prefer the Senns from comfort to sound reproduction.!
 
 

 

[Assimilator702]

 
Quote:

Malveaux, interesting comparison. I've spent most of my big bucks in my life on speakers / amps and am just getting around to >$100 phones, so have never heard any of the higher-end Senns. I guess where the Panasonics disappoint me a bit is in fact *totally* in terms of their energy, sparkle, and impact-- it's very surprising to hear that the $500 Senns have less of this, even as a monitor-styled high-end phone.
 
I wonder if you can clarify what you mean by "bass reverb", a term I keep hearing you use in your assessments in this thread. Is it added harmonics? Mid-bass push? I don't really get the sense of being "slapped around" by the HTFs in the bass either, but I would think that smearing time-domain transients in the bass, as reverb in the conventional sense normally does, would be a generally negative thing (I don't hear the HTFs doing this, though).

First my disclaimer....I just had all my coffee for the day and I can think/type very fast. Sorry if I get off-topic but I'm being spontaneous.....
 
Being a car audio and home audio guy myself and fairly new to the headphone game heres my take on the subject of bass reverb.....and yes I might go off on several tangents but I don't want to censor my  initial thoughts.
 
In a given space whether it's a 20' X 12' room or a smaller space like a vehicle you have a boundary effect on the bass frequencies which excite certain low frequencies and boost them.
 
In a vehicle we call that the resonant frequency and it can be used to your advantage when designing a subwoofer system.  SPL guys exploit this resonant frequency to a cartoonish fanaticism and tune their enclosures to be loudest at this given frequency which will give them maximum SPL which is the name of the game.....these are not in any way music systems....as you can tell I'm more of an audio fanatic that likes my tunes accurate....but  bass is not a bad thing. If it's in the recording I want my systems to reproduce it......or my headphones.
 
In an actual subwoofer driver we have something called overhang which is when the driver keeps moving after the signal is fed into it.
 
A driver with a very accurate controlled amount of overhang would be a high Q driver.....and a low Q driver would have less control. I'm simplifying this greatly but this post would be much longer if I went into much more detail.
 
A small amount can be ok but anything more will just make things sounds sloppy and inaccurate. The subwoofer will add or keep moving while the new signal is fed into it and a blurry mess follows.  Any deviation to the signal is of course not accurate and an exageration of the original signal. The motor structure of the driver which is the voice coil/which takes the electrical signal and lies within a gap is controlled by a magnet....this is the basic principal any electrical motor operates in. A speaker just goes back and forth as opposed to round and round like a fan motor operates.
 
In a Home theater a bit of overhang with of course the exploitation of the boundary effect can give action movies with loud effects more excitement.....but only a bit since any more will bring forth a sloppy mess.
 
In a purist audio system this is avoided since we only want what the audio engineers intended.....nothing more.....nothing less. This of course is why it's very difficult to seamlessly blend a subwoofer into a high end audio system.
 
 

 
 

 

[Assimilator702]

Headphones......if we have a quick and accurate bass with no overhang/boundry effect this would be a headphone that doesn't add that bit of reverb as some call it......a headphone that adds TONS of reverb like the Sony XBR500 is at the other end of the spectrum.....but the designers can't just turn the knob all the way up to 10= or else we have that forementioned sloppy mess....it has to be done with reservation just as in a home theater.
 
Everyones tastes fall somewhere between those 2 bookends which that is why different headphones are designed. A person that listens to Rap will appreciate the extra bass added to a headphone.....a person that listens to Metal and very well recorded Jazz ....such as myself wants a headphone that reproduce all the low frequency content on the recording but wants a more accurate portrait of that recording. IN this light a headphone has to be capable....but not exagerate the signal....this I believe is what takes engineers the most effort and drives the price up.
 
But from a cost perspective theres less in a headphone to add cost like say a pair of floor standing speakers with exotic drivers that cost $300 each and enclosures designed to survive a nuclear bomb.
 
In a headphone we essentially have a small 2" full range driver for each ear and a small plastic.....sometimes wood enclosure with a band that connects the 2 so it stays on our head..... the area that is available to work with a very small. A budget headphone will use....theoretically.....less expensive drivers with weaker motor structures....which can lead to a bit of overhang....this will work in the small space between the driver and the ear canal....the room.....
 
Hopefully my coffee fueled ramblings shed some light on what we perceive as bass reverb.