[RPGWiZaRD]

It's not about getting them sound like XB500 but how I optimally prefer it to sound like. I don't want "different" signatures, I want as close as possible to the sound signature I know I enjoy the most that I've found out by trial & error / comparing different headphones, settings, EQing etc. I didn't need more than a few mins listening with XB500 as it sounded "instantly" very close to what I personally enjoy (needed some EQing though to balance the frequency response a little but rest was nice), I don't need to adjust, by adjusting to me it means you're just trying to forget what you really enjoy as that's how it works with headphones, listen to headphones for a while and they'll start sounding more and more acceptable as you forget about how the other headphones sound like but then if you put on your "favorite" headphone you'll realize what you were missing out on again, all that "build-up" for a new sound signature goes wasted just like that in a blink. Listen to a basshy headphone for a week and towards the end of the week it'll satisfy your bass cravings a little more but then put back on a bassheavy headphone and you're like ZOMG where does all this bass come from, didn't remember it sounding this bassy? People's taste/prefers may change with time or they could stay the same for a very long time, I know my prefers haven't changed one bit for a few years at least, I've had this XB500 since June or something last year and I still very much enjoy the sound. In the past for example DT770 pro, M50, D1100, K518 DJs, M5X didn't get more than 1 - 2 weeks or so head-time, I can pretty much instantly decide whether this headphone is close to what I'm looking for or not, burn-in might only have a little impact if any.
 
Following part might be rather boring read to some but those interested in knowing how I got to where I am now could read on
***************
Sennheiser HD 212 pro was my first "decent" headphone that I had used like 2-3 years and had spent lots of time with finding those optimal EQ settings for it and back then it sounded pretty good to me (I suppose it was a fairly good starting step when looking from my own prefer's point of view) as I didn't like neither DT770 Pro and M50... I liked M50 better than DT770 Pro though (I dislike V-shaped response curves which DT770 very much all about, thin, bright but also thought there could be a bit more midbass, the subbass was more than enough), only missed a little bass quantity from M50 (at that time bass quantity had even bigger importance to me coming from 5.1 speaker sets) and could enjoy a bit better soundstage . Then tried AKG K518 DJs due to the price but missed some deep bass and soundstage was very poor (claustrophobic), otherwise they were very close except for the awful comfort. Then I finally decided to try XB700 and FINALLY I instantly got something I enjoyed more in pretty much all possible ways than the HD212 pro and was like praising them and what not for 2 weeks until I decided to give XB500 a try and then it was like instantly the first few secs I heard them were enough to tell, this is very close to what I've been looking for (I start EQing almost instantly just shortly after I've given the "out-of-box" sound a listen to various songs) and knew this was a headphone very much to my liking. After a few mins I was already certain about it.
 
***************
 
Now these Panasonics are nowhere bad headphones, amazing for the price really, I've just been talking from a subjective point of view in this thread. I mean from my subjective point of view with all EQ settings and everything (my custom dolby headphone config etc) applied to XB500 is worth like $200 to me, at least that's what I'd without question pay for a headphone that would have this sound out of box without any tweaking needed, possibly a bit more. Now the Panasonics are at least worth $150 to me but I may not have found the optimal settings or it might still improve from burn-in etc so who knows if it might yet reach XB500 in terms of satisfaction or slightly surpass it. Then if you compare price/performance, in US price (in europe it's a little different though) the Panasonics would be worth like 5x the price while XB500 "only" 4x. So yea that indeed gives a better indication of their value and thought about them.
 
So yea I work like that I'm on a quest to find that "holy grail" to me. When I've found the optimal headphone I'll just live with that until my taste/prefers change. I can't get "bored" of what I "want to hear", that's like stopping liking a band you're the biggest fan of... doesn't sound logical to me. Again you can force yourself to "like" another sound signature but to me that's like fooling yourself... I believe we all have own taste/prefers and to some it might not be very clear what that is, especially in sound but to me it's crystal clear at this point. I also concider myself lucky to have the taste I have, I have no desire at this point to try all those expensive headphones such as Beyer T1, HD800 etc as I know it's not the kind of sound I'm looking for so I get satisfied for a lot smaller amount spent. I think I'm probably equally satisfied right now as some people who use their $1000+ setups and again I believe it's due to the taste I have and happened to find something corresponding very close to that. A person that wants a very balanced, neutral, analytical, detailed, accurate etc probably has to spend a lot more than me to get equally satisfied. Absurd comparing some $50 headphone to $1000? Well that's my view on this hobby, never underestimate people's taste/prefers, they are the key to the holy grail.
 
Oh and lastly, it says "RP-HTF600E-S" on my box, the 'E' probably stands for europe/EU and 'S' for silver though. But yea I wouldn't be suprised if they came out of different factories for example with possibly some differences. The packaging is the EXACT same as Denon D1100 btw. ^^ Really poor packaging for a headphone IMO.

 

[Dsnuts]

Oh so you did get the E version. For Europe that makes sense.. Hmm I do wonder if there is a difference in the US version and the one you got. Does the box/ spec  look the same?
 
I am glad you at least like them..If this is the type of signature you prefer than I suppose I am in line with the same. I love these headphones and the sounds they produce..Your point about how these cheaper HPs are more in line with what you like does make sense. I am kinda in the same boat.. I am so very satisfied with my Panasonics It is astonishing as I haven't had this much fun listening to any of my phones that cost so much more. It is hard to put a monetary value on something like this.
 
It just goes to show you not every HP that cost more means you will get more pleasure out of listening to them.. That being said I will continue to hear and buy phones but have yet to find one so cheap that does so much.. I think perhaps that is where it is mind blowing for me. I mean the next bang per buck HP in my collection would be the Koss Porta pros and the JVC HARX700... Do they hold the same value and sound as the Panasonics? Not even remotely close...That is why these are special...
 
Analytical is so overrated. Blast that Bass and enjoy your tunes is what I say.. These let you do that and throw a smile on your face in the process..

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
I seriously there's a real difference between USA/EU versions of the headphone. Those are just representative of stock so that shipments can be differentiated and traced in case a production block of headphones in that line were defective so that they could figure out which facility may have produced the error. There's minor sonic differences between every single headphone, but I doubt there's any more difference between the EU version and the USA version, than there is between two USA versions for example.
 
===============================================================================
 
Pad Modification:
 
By the way, the Beyer velour pads came in today. They're a perfect fit.
 
I have two sets of Panasonics RP-HTF600 Step Monitors. I just fitted these pads which work on several headphones in terms of size on a pair of the Panasonics. It's a perfect match. Fits like it was made for it. So no worries about it slipping or being loose or having to mod or do anything. They just slide right into place no problem at all without any extra modification. Simple swap.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Comfort: Absolutely comfortable. Beyer Velour is just wonderful. I loved all Beyer headphones I've worn. I'm also a big "velour" fan, as I actually dislike pleather. I only stoop down to pleather when I am forced. And even then, it's only indoors for me because I do not like sweaty ears/head when wearing pleather headphones outside (my portables are always velour due to that, or at least, most of the time). These feel great. They fit just like the stock pads, but they're a nicer material, comfortable, soft and feel even better on my glasses frames.
 
Sound: Ok, they do have an impact on sound. All pad changes should because it changes how sound is absorbed and reflected, so it changes the end dynamic in your ear folds and reflects differently there too. So no matter what, it will sound different. The question is, do you lose good qualities, or do you get a neutral change, or do you get a positive change in qualities of sound. Bass changes: Insignificant. Seriously. The bass is still impactful, low, and reverbing. That is awesome. So changing to velour does not effect the warm bass of this headphone in an appreciable way. I tested bass with some dubstep drops and some Cello over and over at the same perceived volume level to test it. Mids changes: I swear that the bass bleed falls out of the mids, so the mids sound a little less warm and instead have an edge of detail on them. This can be a pro or con depending on what you're looking for. For me, this is an excellent change in the positive direction as this headphone now sounds more balanced actually and the clarity sound comes from the detail shift. I tested this with female vocals and piano (Tori Amos specifically). Treble changes: Again, the bass is still tremendous and warm, but the highs feel like they lost some weight and became more tight and detailed, instead of being warm and smooth. Now, they're edged. It's not bright or fatiguing though. It's still a smooth listen. But it's not overly smooth to the point of sounding damp. I tested this with some guitar, cymbals, and some really high pitch female vocal with a lot of consonants (some French stuff that I listen to). Verdict: I think the mid-bass hump gets tamed by the velour pads, therefor you keep the big sub bass hits that we love, but the mid-bass stops bleeding as much into the mids & highs, which results in a more balanced sound. I would call this an improvement. Even though I love the stock sound, it's so warm and musical, I also like a more detailed and clear sounding image. The velour I think takes the mid-bass hump down a notch. I just played with an equalizer to confirm this suspicion and felt like I found the same effective sound by dropping 220hz, 440hz and 622hz 2~3 dB. There's the hump by guestimation from previous thoughts on the matter of frequency response (as this headphone has an obvious mid-bass hump).
 
Velour pads are an excellent change. Reduced mid-bass bleed. Increase in clarity and detail by a notch. Retains sub bass slam and reverb. Still warm and musical. With the velour pads, the headphone's sound, as a combined package (costing new $50 total shipped) sounds much like $200 headphones I've sampled and have/had and feels like them too. This headphone is reminding me heavily of a mix between a DT770 and an HD650, but $50, and no amp needed, and inbetween fully open and fully closed so sound stage difference. I still feel this headphone has a great sound stage for it's closed nature and considering it's cost (when I compare to closed headphones that are fully sealed and do not have angled drivers, which have next to no sound stage I find, these things have quite a bit better sound stage).
 
Recommendation: Get the velour pads folks.

Very best,

 

[Dsnuts]

Nice.. I have mine on the way.. That is an awesome find.. How to improve the sounds of an already impressive phone.. Replace the pads. haha great find. Can't wait to get mine.. Will chime in once I get mine..They look more expensive too. I like that. Well technically they are but $50 for a $200 sounding phone sounds like a deal to me. Oh man I am excited to try this. You think those pads add to the sound stage a bit?

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
Quote:

You think those pads add to the sound stage a bit?

I wouldn't say that. But with a more balanced sound and less bleed, I think it just helps the overall sound a tad.
 
I'm just amazed the low end bass is kept so well when making the switch. Usually that drops off. I think the bass on these things is possibly due to the vents all over it (around the parameter and the center vents). Probably should get some tape and experiment with blocking some of the vents.
 
Very best,

 

[lossfizzle]

My HTF600s got here this morning. I gave them a quick listen, let them play by themselves in another room for an hour or so, and just finished an extended listening session with them using one of my Rockboxed Clip+s in addition to FB2K + my laptop phones output.Test bed material included a range of things in the "recordings I know purty darned well" category, mostly rock-ish - Steely Dan, NIN, Deerhoof, Igorrr, Microdisney, The European, my own music, a bunch of other stuff you don't care about.
 
Also maybe helpful info to thread-ites: I am a flat-EQ hardliner and also have zero use (tolerance?) for insert effects like BBE / spatial enhancement as applied post-master / in the living room. I got this way because I'm a musician, and dude, if I'd meant you to hear that song with 6dB more in the 30Hz and 15kHz registers, believe me, I would have put said boost there to begin with. Say no more. Thusly, my listening was also done completely flat, and thus it shall ever be. I choose my gear for its abilities when running flat.
 
First off, the difference between these phones at one minute of use and 60 minutes of use was striking. Out of the box, I thought the "basshead" associations here were nuts. After an hour of burning in and re-playing a few tracks that I started with, I sort of see where this is coming from.
 
...*Sort of*... I mean, to a point. I will say that I have not heard the XB series phones or whatever. I'm NOT a basshead and I don't own notorious-basshead phones.
 
What I hear from the HTF600s right now, after the one-hour breakin, is a pretty strong boost in the lower midbass region, about 80-150Hz. The phones extend down to what sounds like about 30-35 pretty cleanly, but the boost an octave or so up tends to obscure the low-bass performance. A few tracks I pulled out with known strong / ridiculous content in the 30Hz range-- things which rattle the room when played on a home system with actual subs-- were surprisingly weak down there.
 
Mids and treble are also (mostly) proportionately recessed. They are not muffled, bled-through, or weirdly shaped. The HTF600 sounds a lot to me like listening to a sub-sat system where the crossover point is set just a little too high, and both sub and sat are of good quality, but someone's left the sub turned up maybe 3-6dB too high compared to the sats. There is a distinct separation point at about 150-200Hz and it sounds almost like listening to two separate drivers in the same can.
 
This may be why another poster is complaining that female vocals are "distant." These phones just don't have much air as a result of their bass prioritization, at least at this point in their life cycle. Vocals are audible and usually clear, but don't occupy their usual unquestionably central place in the mix. Snares and toms lack nearly enough punch and snap for my taste; kick drums have a strong foundation, but are not punchy, explosive or head-rattling, as they are lacking the needed mid-spectrum air to pull this off. Soundstaging and so-called "detail retrieval" (a pretentious phrase that I detest, but I'm not in a place to do better just this second) is modest at best. These aren't phones that will enable you to experience musical revelations and details you've never heard before. The highs also seem rolled off above 12-14k-- satisfactory for music, but no sparkle.
 
This isn't to say the HTF600 sounds bad at all. It has a nice, laid-back sound to it, certainly sounds better and more full-spectrum than most anything else closed-ear you can find in the (current) price range from my experience. In some ways, most notably its "unsynthetic" quality, it definitely bests phones like the MDR-V6 (at least for end-users), and I imagine it probably DOES destroy the XB series in terms of actual music reproduction. It *might* sound as good or better than most of the more expensive circumaural cans it's been compared to in this thread - I haven't heard, say, a set of M50s, so I can't say. And given how much the phone changed in its first hour, it might still have more character to develop and some FR humps to even out-- although I'm a pretty huge skeptic of break-in in general.
 
The thread has also addressed the leakage issue but maybe not to the needed degree. These things might as well be open-back. When I let them break in at moderately high volume (I'd guess about 100dB on-ear?), I rubber-banded the cups together, put them in another room 25 feet away, and closed the door. It sounded almost like someone was listening to a clock radio in there. These would be HORRIBLE choices for close-quarters public transportation use. I honestly can't see anyone using them as the labeled "monitors" either-- between the bass boost and the crazy degree of leakage, they'd be totally useless in a studio.
 
Would I recommend this over most CA phones I've heard in the $30-50 bracket? Yes, quite possibly. Over any / all sub-$100 contenders? Hrm, I don't know about that. Over my KSCs / Portapros? No- absolutely not. Take that for whatever it's worth.
 
edit: Before I lose all credibility with that last statement, I prioritize detail, soundstage, and air. I think the KSCs / PPros have the edge over the HTF600s in that regard-- and also up against an awful lot of other closed-ear CAs. The HTF600 definitely has deeper bass, but I find the integration of the whole spectrum is cleaner with the Kosses.
 
I will give these a little more time to break in but I will probably be letting them go if anyone's interested.
 

 

[Dsnuts]

I think you would have liked the other Panasonic  phone I mentioned in this thread a bit better. I know these aren't for everyone so it is inevitable to find someone that don't like the sound signature of them. Thanks for your impressions it will give some good insight to others that have similar tastes as you do in sound..So I suppose these aren't for people that want more balance and neutrality in their sounds vs a warm bassy sound signature..Good perspective, sorry to hear you aren't a fan of the sound.. At least you didn't spend a lot to find out.. I do agree that they leak a lot of sound but there is some real science to all the air holes on the back of the cups.. I think Malvaux is correct in that they are there to help the stage and bass of the phones.. I do appreciate you being interested enough to try them..If you got them through Amazon I would just return them. Who knows they might grow a bit on you enough to keep...I will tell you though that the bass will change for the better over some time.
 
I think Malveaux is the same way in that he doesn't believe in burn in much either as he told me this. These phones do need burn in.. In my new pair the bass was nowhere near as full sounding as my now broken in pair.. I would give them a good days worth of burn in and try those same low end tunes you have and you will see what I mean.. I remember when I first heard these out of box I wasn't a fan of the mids nor was I impressed with the bass.. It was after a good 24 hours when things started to gel and fill out.. The mids smoothed out for me and the bass was unbelievable after proper loosening of the drivers..Since you have them give them a good work out and see if anything changes for you. If not I don't think you will have any issues getting rid of them.

 

[lossfizzle]

Yeah, I'm gonna give further break-in a shot just for giggles. I'll probably set them down in the closet and let one of my Sansas have at it for 3-4 days straight.
 
Again, it's not that I dislike the signature as it currently is. It just doesn't fit my usual needs or listening priorities. My description of the sound probably makes things sound worse than they are-- I think these are pretty great bargains for the money. My SR850s are still on the UPS truck today and it will be interesting to see how those compare.
 
Also, the 600s *did* do pretty well on the following torture test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWca1X7nFGo
Youtube compression ruins lives, but yeah. Most speakers and phones have a hard time making sense of this insane track, especially the death-metal parts; the HTF600 gave a better sense of pitch than average in those sections. What they *didn't* do is bring enough snap to the lute sample and/or draw attention to the ugly distortion on the toms.
 
This brings up another point - the HTFs are quite forgiving for a "full-spectrum" phone. They didn't draw much attention to inexcusably-crappy MP3 encoding (I have a few particularly nasty samples I keep around) or loudness-wars consequences. That's good or bad depending on your perspective, I suppose.

 

[gelocks]

Hmmmm velour... just like my comfy SRH940s... ... ...
 
LOL.
Will indeed think about it!

 

[Dsnuts]

I think maybe perhaps with Malveaux's insight into the improvement with the velour pads those might sell out much like these Panasonics. I am seeing more and more vendors sell out now and new vendors selling them until they sell out..Amazon it seems wont have any new ones for a month or two.
 
Get your HTF-600-S before they sell out or raise the price.. It will happen. 
 
@lossfizzle That track is inanity. hahaha

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
I'm a few more hours into the velour pads. I periodically change from the velour headphone to my non-velour headphone as they're both playing back simultaneously the same stream so it's a non-stop playback on both headphones (single circuit chain with multiple amps). I'm really liking the feel of the velour over the other, which is my preference to begin with, so I'm really happy with the velour in that sense. As for the sound change, I'm really enjoying the sound of the velour. I keep swapping back and forth, and the edged detail feeling just really comes out and I totally dig how the headphone actually starts to sound more like a nice Denon (not the D1100, that's not a nice Denon).
 
I'm seriously putting this panasonic with velour next to some of my nicer headphones, and it's not superior or equal to them, but it's so close that it's just striking. At $50 for this headphone + velour pads, I put it a whole tier ahead of things in the $50 range, direct competition for the $150~200 range.
 
It makes no sense that I'm wearing this headphone, instead of my HE-500 right now. Sure, my HE-500 sounds better. But, I'm totally tickled that I'm wearing a $50 headphone that sounds this good, and enjoying it pretty much as well as a $900 headphone.
 
Very best,

 

[Assimilator702]

 
Quote:

Heya,

I wouldn't say that. But with a more balanced sound and less bleed, I think it just helps the overall sound a tad.
 
I'm just amazed the low end bass is kept so well when making the switch. Usually that drops off. I think the bass on these things is possibly due to the vents all over it (around the parameter and the center vents). Probably should get some tape and experiment with blocking some of the vents.
 
Very best,

I would say the outer vents do have a influence on the low frequency of the HP. I just played the test tone video on page 1 and my HARX900 played cleanly down to 30 Hz and was slightly down at 20 HZ.
 
Of course my JXC HAFX34 played clean down to 20 Hz and made voicecoil noises at 10 HZ......I LOVE those buds.

 
Someone tell me I'm nuts for being in love with those ear buds....to me they're giant killers....if I'm ignorant.....I'm in bliss.

 

 

[Dsnuts]

Quote:

 

I would say the outer vents do have a influence on the low frequency of the HP. I just played the test tone video on page 1 and my HARX900 played cleanly down to 30 Hz and was slightly down at 20 HZ.
 
Of course my JXC HAFX34 played clean down to 20 Hz and made voicecoil noises at 10 HZ......I LOVE those buds.

 
Someone tell me I'm nuts for being in love with those ear buds....to me they're giant killers....if I'm ignorant.....I'm in bliss.

 

No man you are on the right thread. I own 3 JVC buds myself. If you like those. You need to try the JVC HAFXC51 after 100 hour burn they are astounding... I also own the HAFX67 and my favorite at the moment. The Xtreme Xplode HAFX1X.  BassyX10 hahaha. Gotta love cheaper great sounding stuff.
 

@Malveaux. I am all about the velours.  Can't wait!!

 

[lossfizzle]

The SR850s got here. Just spent the last hour A/Bing them against the HTFs on a whole slew of excerpts. ds, your statement about the soundstage being more vast on the SuperSamsons is right on. I would say the 850s have a soundstage about twice as big-sounding and open as the HTF600s in the stereo field. They make the HTFs sound kind of boxy by comparison.
 
Bass is not as big or deep on the 850s as the 600 but it seems to have more impact with many (not all) recordings.
 
HF extension and air is MUCH better on the 850s. They are not trebly phones to my ears at all; they simply go farther and have crisper, more balanced mids and highs. They handle snares and cymbals with more aplomb. They also bring out sibilant vocal recordings and thoughtless brickwalled-mastering grit a great deal more. (The last Flying Lotus record = barely listenable on the 850s, there's so much distortion from the mastering stage... the 600s made it much more tolerable.)
 
On one Deerhoof track, I listened on the HTFs first and thought it worked OK save for the snare. I switched to the 850s at the playback-start spot and said "Oh yeah, I forgot she plays a Rickenbacker." It just sounded like a generic P-bass on the 600s.
 
I can see the HTFs being better phones for some people as I imagine they would be easy to wear with a long time without sonic fatigue (but I also found the 850s more comfortable just as phones, personally, not that I think that would be the case for everyone-- the HTF cups kinda bump the back of my big ears). The mids do seem to be coming out more on the 600s now, but the sparkly highs and missing "openness" of the 850s are something I do not think will emerge on the 600s with breakin.
 
Both the cynic and the empiricist in me want to know definitively if breakin does anything for anyone, so I've got the HTFs wired up for a straight unattended ~90-hour breakin session; reporting back Monday.
 
 

 

[jm78]

Quote:

Well the Panasonic RP-HTF890E-S arrived this morning from Amazon. I literally only got 5 minutes to try them out before leaving for work so I won't comment on the sound other than the fact that even these had more bass out of the box than I was expecting (in a good way). I've left them playing my Underworld collection for the day so will have a good listen with 10 hours on them later tonight. First impressions are good though and these are seriously comfy headphones.
 
Dom

Give us some thoughts if you can.  I'm thinking about picking up the 890 as well.