[sakujou]

Hey everyone,

I am having a really hard time configuring foobar to play DSD files through my AVR. Read tons of stuff online, foobar for dummies, installed plagins, etc.

So my setup is as follows;
Windows 10 PC -> foobar-> - HDMI -> Denon X3300 AVR (in Pure Direct)

The AVR is suppose to support DSD through HDMI, even though info on that topic is scarce.

My foobar SACD settings look like this:
https://ibb.co/fiZ9ap

When I try this output setting:
https://ibb.co/bHY2vp

Or any of the other wasapi or dsd : wasapi settings with the Denon flacs &other files play fine. My AVR info says the sample rate is 192kHz as it should.
But when I try to play dsd 64/128 I get these errors and there is no playback and sound:
https://ibb.co/cRDP89

When I setup the output setting like this (the highlighted option), dsd files are playing:
https://ibb.co/hKfhvp

But I get this error at the beginning of every track.
https://ibb.co/nEBBo9

And also on this setting even lower bitrate FLACs (192kHz) are still being played in 48kHz according to the info on my AVR menus), so something is definitely not right and I should be using some other setting, probably WASAPI).

Basically only with the last setting dsd files are playing, but even if I decide I can live with the error message pop up on every track - am I playing the dsd files properly? Is there no downsampling happening? As mentioned above in my receiver setup - general - information - audio - it says the stereo, PCM, 48 kHz, so that can not be fine.
Should I aim for direct DSD playback from my AVR? Is it OK for the output to be converted to PCM by foobar? If yes - shouldn't it at least have a higher sample rate, probably the same as the source DSD?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT:
OK, I manged to get rid of the annoying FIR error message with the last setting by changing the DSD2PCM to Direct (64fp...). But other than that I still believe DSD file playback is not proper and there is some downsampling happening.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I think foobar should be set not to convert anything if the device is supposed to support DSD. Can you get it to work first with USB? why are you using custom FIR? I think you can take defaults for everything.

And you have multiple drivers in the list for WSAPI for that device.. try them all. I don't know why so many are listed.. usually I see one for ASIO, one for WASAPI etc.

 

[514077]

Hey everyone,

I am having a really hard time configuring foobar to play DSD files through my AVR. Read tons of stuff online, foobar for dummies, installed plagins, etc.

So my setup is as follows;
Windows 10 PC -> foobar-> - HDMI -> Denon X3300 AVR (in Pure Direct)

The AVR is suppose to support DSD through HDMI, even though info on that topic is scarce.

My foobar SACD settings look like this:
https://ibb.co/fiZ9ap

When I try this output setting:
https://ibb.co/bHY2vp

Or any of the other wasapi or dsd : wasapi settings with the Denon flacs &other files play fine. My AVR info says the sample rate is 192kHz as it should.
But when I try to play dsd 64/128 I get these errors and there is no playback and sound:
https://ibb.co/cRDP89

When I setup the output setting like this (the highlighted option), dsd files are playing:
https://ibb.co/hKfhvp

But I get this error at the beginning of every track.
https://ibb.co/nEBBo9

And also on this setting even lower bitrate FLACs (192kHz) are still being played in 48kHz according to the info on my AVR menus), so something is definitely not right and I should be using some other setting, probably WASAPI).

Basically only with the last setting dsd files are playing, but even if I decide I can live with the error message pop up on every track - am I playing the dsd files properly? Is there no downsampling happening? As mentioned above in my receiver setup - general - information - audio - it says the stereo, PCM, 48 kHz, so that can not be fine.
Should I aim for direct DSD playback from my AVR? Is it OK for the output to be converted to PCM by foobar? If yes - shouldn't it at least have a higher sample rate, probably the same as the source DSD?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT:
OK, I manged to get rid of the annoying FIR error message with the last setting by changing the DSD2PCM to Direct (64fp...). But other than that I still believe DSD file playback is not proper and there is some downsampling happening.

Since you chose to post images instead of describing what your settings are, I'm OUT!

 

[MelonHead]

Hey everyone,

I am having a really hard time configuring foobar to play DSD files through my AVR. Read tons of stuff online, foobar for dummies, installed plagins, etc.

So my setup is as follows;
Windows 10 PC -> foobar-> - HDMI -> Denon X3300 AVR (in Pure Direct)

The AVR is suppose to support DSD through HDMI, even though info on that topic is scarce.

My foobar SACD settings look like this:
https://ibb.co/fiZ9ap

When I try this output setting:
https://ibb.co/bHY2vp

Or any of the other wasapi or dsd : wasapi settings with the Denon flacs &other files play fine. My AVR info says the sample rate is 192kHz as it should.
But when I try to play dsd 64/128 I get these errors and there is no playback and sound:
https://ibb.co/cRDP89

When I setup the output setting like this (the highlighted option), dsd files are playing:
https://ibb.co/hKfhvp

But I get this error at the beginning of every track.
https://ibb.co/nEBBo9

And also on this setting even lower bitrate FLACs (192kHz) are still being played in 48kHz according to the info on my AVR menus), so something is definitely not right and I should be using some other setting, probably WASAPI).

Basically only with the last setting dsd files are playing, but even if I decide I can live with the error message pop up on every track - am I playing the dsd files properly? Is there no downsampling happening? As mentioned above in my receiver setup - general - information - audio - it says the stereo, PCM, 48 kHz, so that can not be fine.
Should I aim for direct DSD playback from my AVR? Is it OK for the output to be converted to PCM by foobar? If yes - shouldn't it at least have a higher sample rate, probably the same as the source DSD?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT:
OK, I manged to get rid of the annoying FIR error message with the last setting by changing the DSD2PCM to Direct (64fp...). But other than that I still believe DSD file playback is not proper and there is some downsampling happening.

I'm not an expert by any means, but my FB 2000 plays DSD flawlessly with my Audio GD R2R-11
The first thing which caught my eyes is the HDMI connection. I'm not sure whether your AV receiver can accept DSD or your PC can stream DSD over HDMI .
If you send me a PM, I can share my full setup with you. My installation is portable.

Edit: Yepp, the problem seems to be here. The PC can't output DSD over HDMI.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96197.0

 

[sakujou]

Yeah it turns out the PC GPU and Nvidia are the culprit - currently no video cards can output DSD through HDMI.
Thanks a ton for the help! Saved me countless hours of digging online and messing around with settings.

I posted these questions on another forum, but I hope someone here can help also. So here it goes...

So are there any workarounds besides buying a dedicated DAC with a USB input and RCA output?

I understand that the Denon X3300 can accept DSD through USB as well, but there are some mentions a PC can't be connected directly, it has to be a USB stick or hardrive. Maybe with a LAN cable? I will dig online about some info, but wouldn't mind some help if someone is aware how it can be done.


Also - can foobar or Jriver convert those DSDs to PCM and downsample them to 192kHz (which is my AVR limit)?
I tried setting up foobar to output PCM only and use the Sox (mod2) DSP resampler to resample everything to 192kHz, but it doesn't seem to do anything.
When I try these settings:

Output data format: 24-bit
SACD - Output Mode - PCM
PCM Samplerate - 44100
DCD2PCM Mode - any of Multistage or Direct options

Foobar plays the DSD files, I guess they are converted to PCM 44100. But when I try to setup a higher samplerate of 88200 or 176400 I get this error:
"Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 176400 Hz / 24-bit / 2 channels"

I guess the bit-rate and samplerate do not work together.
But basically how can I at least get the max out of the PCMs? Like 176400 or something similar?
Again I would really appreciate help on this.


And another general question - even though my AVR says it reads DSD (I believe DSD128), it also has a limit of 192kHz I think. How would this be possible, when DSD 128 is way higher with 5,6mHz? Same goes for some USB DACs I guess, as I have seen a lot of them that say they support DSD 64, 128, even 256 or 512, but yet they have a max limit of either 192kHz or 384kHz. I guess I am missing something, but just wanna make sure if I invest in a separate DAC it would at least do the job.

Huge thanks to everyone again. I really appreciate it.

EDIT:
OK, managed to solve one of the problems - when trying to resample the PCM files, I hadn't specified a sample rate for Sox mod2 to resample to 192kHz.
So first in the SACD settings I set the output to 352800 and then I put the same value in the Sox mod2 "Resample ONLY frequencies" field. And it works - my AVR is now receiver is now playing 192kHz PCM! A small win.

But the other questions stand, I guess. Even though I wonder is all the trouble worth it. And would I even be able to tell the difference between a bit-perfect DSD and the resample 192kHz PCM I am playing...

 

[PleasantSounds]

[..]
And another general question - even though my AVR says it reads DSD (I believe DSD128), it also has a limit of 192kHz I think. How would this be possible, when DSD 128 is way higher with 5,6mHz? Same goes for some USB DACs I guess, as I have seen a lot of them that say they support DSD 64, 128, even 256 or 512, but yet they have a max limit of either 192kHz or 384kHz. I guess I am missing something, but just wanna make sure if I invest in a separate DAC it would at least do the job.
[..]

The difference is that PCM typically uses 16 or 24-bit samples, while DSD is 1-bit. So if you multiply 24*192k you get pretty close to the DSD 64 bit rate (both about 5Mbps).

In my setup I have archived the original DSD files and most of the time use their versions converted to PCM 24/96 or even 24/48. If there is a quality difference, my ageing ears are not able to detect it. But in practice I prefer to be able to use replay gain, or if I feel like it turn on some DSP - something that if it is possible to do with DSD at all, so far I haven't fugured out how to.

 

[sakujou]

I see. Thank you for the information and help.

I actually had everything setup correctly, I was using WASAPI (event) with my AVR, converting to PCM than downsampling using sox Mod2 resampler to 192kHz. My receiver was recognizing the signal as 192kHz PCM and sound was awesome.
Then my Windows 10 updated, or I do not what happened and now everything is messed up again. :/
When using the previous settings which worked for 3 days flawlessly, now I get this error message when trying to playback a song.

"Unrecoverable playback error: Device invalidated"

In the windows setting I have allowed apps to take exclusive control for sound, I read a lot online, I was resetting some audio stuff through command prop, reinstalled foobar, tried every possible advice I found online with no luck.
Basically I can no longer play files through foobar using WASAPI output.
When I switch to DS output it works, files play without issues, but I guess this is not the way to go if I want good quality and/or bit-perfect conversion to PCM.

Again - advice and help would be most welcome and greatly appreciated!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I can't unravel everything you have said but it seems like you did some stuff that doesn't make sense to me. I am far, far from an expert in Windows so I could be totally wrong.

Anyway maybe it's a good idea to uninstall the driver and install it again. With Windows the technique seems to be to just keep uninstalling and reinstalling anything that doesn't work (including Windows itself.) I hate Windows but there's no other choice for home audio.

I hate Linux also, don't get me wrong. But I'm smart enough not to keep trying to hurt myself using Linux for audio

 

[514077]

I see. Thank you for the information and help.

I actually had everything setup correctly, I was using WASAPI (event) with my AVR, converting to PCM than downsampling using sox Mod2 resampler to 192kHz. My receiver was recognizing the signal as 192kHz PCM and sound was awesome.
Then my Windows 10 updated, or I do not what happened and now everything is messed up again. :/
When using the previous settings which worked for 3 days flawlessly, now I get this error message when trying to playback a song.

"Unrecoverable playback error: Device invalidated"

In the windows setting I have allowed apps to take exclusive control for sound, I read a lot online, I was resetting some audio stuff through command prop, reinstalled foobar, tried every possible advice I found online with no luck.
Basically I can no longer play files through foobar using WASAPI output.
When I switch to DS output it works, files play without issues, but I guess this is not the way to go if I want good quality and/or bit-perfect conversion to PCM.

Again - advice and help would be most welcome and greatly appreciated!

Are you using V1.4 for FB? I'm beginning to wonder if it's unstable for DSD period. I've noticed that DSD will work for a short time, then disfunction. I've tried both the 1.0.11 and 1.1.0 plugins alternatively and neither of them work for long with the new release of FB.
Thoughts?

 

[Meelis]

In 1.4 the DSF file will not display album art. The mp3tag shows the album art and it's id3v2.4
Foobar2000 can read other tag info, but not album art. When inserting album art in Foobar2000, it gives error
"Attached picture operations not supported for this file format"

 

[Michgelsen]

In 1.4 the DSF file will not display album art. The mp3tag shows the album art and it's id3v2.4
Foobar2000 can read other tag info, but not album art. When inserting album art in Foobar2000, it gives error
"Attached picture operations not supported for this file format"

Maybe you can convert the DSF file to Wavpack. Wavpack also supports DSD nowadays, and the conversion is lossless. Foobar will probably be able to read the album art from the Wavpack file.

 

[514077]

Maybe you can convert the DSF file to Wavpack. Wavpack also supports DSD nowadays, and the conversion is lossless. Foobar will probably be able to read the album art from the Wavpack file.

Do you know how to compress DSF to Wavpack? I tried it without success. I use W7-64 bit.

 

[Michgelsen]

Yes, I compressed my whole DSF library not too long ago. It works really well, and saves a lot of space. The easiest is to use the command line. Here is the wavpack manual: http://www.wavpack.com/wavpack_doc.html As you can see, the wavpack encoder supports dsf files as input.

If you have the latest wavpack software, the easiest is to copy wavpack.exe (the encoder) to the same folder as the files you want to compress. Then, in Windows Explorer, shift+rightclick in that folder in empty space, and choose 'open powershell window here' or 'open command prompt here'. Then type: wavpack.exe -h yoursong.dsf
The -h activates the high compression mode for DSD. If you have any spaces in the filename of your song, you should put its filename between " ". For example: wavpack.exe -h "your song.dsf"
Then it will compress it, and foobar will play it just like any other DSD file.

In case you use Powershell instead of the old skool command prompt, use ./wavpack.exe -h "your song.dsf"
Powershell needs the ./ in front of a .exe to work properly.

 

[514077]

Yes, I compressed my whole DSF library not too long ago. It works really well, and saves a lot of space. The easiest is to use the command line. Here is the wavpack manual: http://www.wavpack.com/wavpack_doc.html As you can see, the wavpack encoder supports dsf files as input.

If you have the latest wavpack software, the easiest is to copy wavpack.exe (the encoder) to the same folder as the files you want to compress. Then, in Windows Explorer, shift+rightclick in that folder in empty space, and choose 'open powershell window here' or 'open command prompt here'. Then type: wavpack.exe -h yoursong.dsf
The -h activates the high compression mode for DSD. If you have any spaces in the filename of your song, you should put its filename between " ". For example: wavpack.exe -h "your song.dsf"
Then it will compress it, and foobar will play it just like any other DSD file.

In case you use Powershell instead of the old skool command prompt, use ./wavpack.exe -h "your song.dsf"
Powershell needs the ./ in front of a .exe to work properly.

Thanks. I didn't have detailed instructions like that before. I'll give it a go, and hope for the best.

 

[Meelis]

The wavpack looks interesting, thanks for suggestion.