[MuppetFace]

Oh dear. I keep coming across more and more customs that are really appealing to me. I suppose I should add the Hidition to my list of potential auditions (along with Final Audio's universals and upcoming cranial torture device).

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Now... I find it ironic music_4321 has paid $1,300 for the K3003 and is saying this
 
"You are well aware of my stance on custom IEMs which, on the whole, I consider downright overrated, ie I strongly believe there's too much hype and exaggeration just as there is, in my view, too much hype and exaggeration when it comes to bitrate differences and the seeming mandatory use of lossless files, or at the very least the need, according to some, to listen to 320 kbps files when it comes to using higher-end phones. Same [or (much) worse] goes for aftermarket cables and, to a lesser extent, portable amps."
 
 
He is right about bitrate and cables I think, but I don't see why he puts custom IEM's in this giant box and then calls them all overrated.
 
For all he knows the custom IEM TS842 sounds better than the K3003, and that's $540 versus $1,300, maybe I should start a thread "are universal IEM's overrated?"

First of all, I paid $1,550 (£1,000) for my K3003, not $1,300 if that makes you feel any better and think, perhaps, that that might make your post/argument more valid.

Now, FYI, I have actually said that high-end universals are overrated too and, in fact, for instance, in the case of the EX1000, I have recommended (most) people should get the much cheaper EX600. I've said something similar about getting the UM2 instead of the pricier UM3X. The fact I've spend $850 on my customs (plus added expenses), $500 on my EX1000s, $450 on my W4s and $1,550 on the K3003s has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that most of these products (and similarly priced products) may be, in my view, indeed overrated.

Overrated, to me, is when you find ridiculous claims made over and over again, both by some customs and/or high-end IEM owners and worse, even, by those who haven't even heard any of these phones!

These exaggerated claims are VERY misleading, specially, in my view, in the case of (high-end) customs, which is why, I think, there seems to be an unstoppable customs craze that started about 2.5 years ago. And all the more when some of these claims come from (inexperienced) people with high post counts who have a tendency to use plenty of audio jargon - yes, sadly they often sound as if they really knew what they were talking about.

Unsuspecting (and often) young(er) HF'ers and/or visitors to this site easily fall for many of these ludicrous claims being made and some of them eventually help perpetuate the hype once they get some of these products. There's more, but I'll just leave it at that.

Funny how SO many people round here dismiss the iPod's stock earbuds as being absolute rubbish. I actually think they offer very decent sound, or definitely (much) better than how they are often regarded on HF.
 

 

[kiteki]

 
Tomcy2000, when you said you heard the entire Final Audio series, do you mean the Piano Forte XVIII CVIX LMMM as well?
 
If yes, the FI-BA-SS is still you're favorite?
 

 

[tomscy2000]

Oh, I've heard much worse than iBuds before! They made me glad I happily kept my own pair of iBuds, instead of ridiculously throwing them away "immediately" like many members here claim to do. I agree with all these statements, and that's why so many high-end audio companies sponsor Head-Fi... in hopes of perpetuating hype around their products! In many ways, music_4321 you're too responsible... it's up to the individual to decide whether an earphone is over-hyped or not, or will meet their expectations. We can't babysit everyone. I can get excited about a product as much as anyone here, but at the end of the day, I show my restraint and use my better judgement to determine what's reasonable and what's not.
 
Quote:

These exaggerated claims are VERY misleading, specially, in my view, in the case of (high-end) customs, which is why, I think, there seems to be an unstoppable customs craze that started about 2.5 years ago. And all the more when some of these claims come from (inexperienced) people with high post counts who have a tendency to use plenty of audio jargon - yes, sadly they often sound as if they really knew what they were talking about.

Unsuspecting (and often) young(er) HF'ers and/or visitors to this site easily fall for many of these ludicrous claims being made and some of them eventually help perpetuate the hype once they get some of these products. There's more, but I'll just leave it at that.

Funny how SO many people round here dismiss the iPod's stock earbuds as being absolute rubbish. I actually think they offer very decent sound, or definitely (much) better than how they are often regarded on HF.

 
You mean the ones that the pasty white man wears on their website, right? Yes, all of them. I didn't much like any of them, because they didn't fit my ears correctly, so I don't think I got the best possible sound out of them. I think the IX were my favorite, but I don't really remember. If you're talking about the discontinued 1601, then no. I saw it today, when the store owner pulled his own out, but didn't get a listen. So, yes, the FI-BA-SS is the best FAD, to me.
 
EDIT: Oh, and the Adagio II/II/V... heard them too. If you look at the pictures, who's the only one smiling? Yes, the healthy black lady with the SS! All the others are pasty and frowning.... that gives you a clue as to what is good and what isn't!!!

 
Quote:

Tomcy2000, when you said you heard the entire Final Audio series, do you mean the Piano Forte XVIII CVIX LMMM as well?
 
If yes, the FI-BA-SS is still you're favorite?

 

 

[lee730]

I think people dismiss them as rubbish because they are use to a whole new level of quality. Then again generally ipod products are way over-hyped to begin with IMO which leads to the same phenomena you speak of... But on a much worse level as its not just headfiers but most of the public...
Quote:

First of all, I paid $1,550 (£1,000) for my K3003, not $1,300 if that makes you feel any better and think, perhaps, that that might make your post/argument more valid.

Now, FYI, I have actually said that high-end universals are overrated too and, in fact, for instance, in the case of the EX1000, I have recommended (most) people should get the much cheaper EX600. I've said something similar about getting the UM2 instead of the pricier UM3X. The fact I've spend $850 on my customs (plus added expenses), $500 on my EX1000s, $450 on my W4s and $1,550 on the K3003s has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that most of these products (and similarly priced products) may be, in my view, indeed overrated.

Overrated, to me, is when you find ridiculous claims made over and over again, both by some customs and/or high-end IEM owners and worse, even, by those who haven't even heard any of these phones!

These exaggerated claims are VERY misleading, specially, in my view, in the case of (high-end) customs, which is why, I think, there seems to be an unstoppable customs craze that started about 2.5 years ago. And all the more when some of these claims come from (inexperienced) people with high post counts who have a tendency to use plenty of audio jargon - yes, sadly they often sound as if they really knew what they were talking about.

Unsuspecting (and often) young(er) HF'ers and/or visitors to this site easily fall for many of these ludicrous claims being made and some of them eventually help perpetuate the hype once they get some of these products. There's more, but I'll just leave it at that.

Funny how SO many people round here dismiss the iPod's stock earbuds as being absolute rubbish. I actually think they offer very decent sound, or definitely (much) better than how they are often regarded on HF.
 

 

 

[uelover]

Hmm A2000X and Sony NWZ A867 (White). Which one to go for first?
 
Getting the A867 (White) is tricky because Japan Post doesn't ship them and neither does Ebay sells them. Not sure how much it will cost altogether as well as the methods to obtain them.

 

[lee730]

Quote:

Hmm A2000X and Sony NWZ A867 (White). Which one to go for first?
 
Getting the A867 (White) is tricky because Japan Post doesn't ship them and neither does EBay sells them. Not sure how much it will cost altogether as well as the methods to obtain them.

Are these headpones? or DAPs? Speaking of that, have you had time to settle in with your Studio V to come up with some impressions or not yet? Sadly I had to return my IE80s due to the turd lying in his add about warranty support. So I'll be departed with my favorite IEMs for some time...

 

[mutabor]

Quote:

Coming from DSLRs, I think the entire NEX line is terrible... in fact, all Sony cameras have been really lackluster over the years. The NEX-7 is the least offensive to me, but I'd rather take a u4/3 like a Panny GX1. 
 


 

I think that the entire line of Panasonic's micro 4/3 is terrible and ugly. The Panny GX1 is the least offensive to me though. 

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

First of all, I paid $1,550 (£1,000) for my K3003, not $1,300 if that makes you feel any better and think, perhaps, that that might make your post/argument more valid.

Now, FYI, I have actually said that high-end universals are overrated too and, in fact, for instance, in the case of the EX1000, I have recommended (most) people should get the much cheaper EX600. I've said something similar about getting the UM2 instead of the pricier UM3X. The fact I've spend $850 on my customs (plus added expenses), $500 on my EX1000s, $450 on my W4s and $1,550 on the K3003s has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that most of these products (and similarly priced products) may be, in my view, indeed overrated.

Overrated, to me, is when you find ridiculous claims made over and over again, both by some customs and/or high-end IEM owners and worse, even, by those who haven't even heard any of these phones!

These exaggerated claims are VERY misleading, specially, in my view, in the case of (high-end) customs, which is why, I think, there seems to be an unstoppable customs craze that started about 2.5 years ago. And all the more when some of these claims come from (inexperienced) people with high post counts who have a tendency to use plenty of audio jargon - yes, sadly they often sound as if they really knew what they were talking about.

Unsuspecting (and often) young(er) HF'ers and/or visitors to this site easily fall for many of these ludicrous claims being made and some of them eventually help perpetuate the hype once they get some of these products. There's more, but I'll just leave it at that.

Funny how SO many people round here dismiss the iPod's stock earbuds as being absolute rubbish. I actually think they offer very decent sound, or definitely (much) better than how they are often regarded on HF.
 

OK Thanks for clarifying your view.
 
Initially it came across like you think all custom IEM's are overrated and the K3003 isn't.
 
 
The stock iPod earbuds (that come with the Nano, not the Shuffle) are some of the best earbuds I've heard.
 
My views are price does not equal performance in audio, all products are different so it's just a hunt to find what is good and not good and that should take place within custom IEM's as well.
 
It can also take place in assessing the sum of all components of a product, marketing and company track records.
 
You are correct that there is some custom IEM craze which is partially due to colours, laser etched artwork and marketing, but when compared to headphones, universal IEM's, DAP, DAC, amplifiers, cables and CD players it seems to me custom IEM's have the most justified departure in price next to any other audio components.
 
Each category is controversial, such as SRH-940 versus HD800, objective2 versus $1000 Amp, PC audio versus $1000 CD player, and so on... but there is no $200 universal IEM that is being compared to $1000 custom's, at least not yet!
 
I highly doubt the "exotica" category can compete against them either.
 
 

 

[lee730]

Ok guys I caved in and am giving the stock iphone4 buds a try. I must admit they are "ok". Can't say anything special but if I was in a ghetto pinch I could live with them
Quote:

OK Thanks for clarifying your view.
 
Initially it came across like you think all custom IEM's are overrated and the K3003 isn't.
 
 
The stock iPod earbuds (that come with the Nano, not the Shuffle) are some of the best earbuds I've heard.
 
My views are price does not equal performance in audio, all products are different so it's just a hunt to find what is good and not good and that should take place within custom IEM's as well.
 
It can also take place in assessing the sum of all components of a product, marketing and company track records.
 
You are correct that there is some custom IEM craze which is partially due to colours, laser etched artwork and marketing, but when compared to headphones, universal IEM's, DAP, DAC, amplifiers, cables and CD players it seems to me custom IEM's have the most justified departure in price next to any other audio components.
 
Each category is controversial, such as SRH-940 versus HD800, objective2 versus $1000 Amp, PC audio versus $1000 CD player, and so on... but there is no $200 universal IEM that is being compared to $1000 custom's, at least not yet!
 
I highly doubt the "exotica" category can compete against them either.
 
 

 

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Music_4321 is putting custom IEM's in a box and as quoted above "on the whole, I consider downright overrated", when he has only heard one (1) custom IEM, the ES3X, if I understand it correctly.
 
I don't see any reason to sub-divide UIEM and CIEM.
 
The perfect example is the Sensaphonics 2-XS, now known as the J-phonic K2 SP, that is a custom IEM (one of the first) which has now become a universal IEM [as well] and they both sound similiar according to review and Sensaphonics intention, and logic.
 
With that said, I didn't like the K2 SP and I imagine I wouldn't like the 2-XS either, if I had the 2-XS custom IEM I think I'd definitely prefer several universals to it, such was the case with RE272 and K2 SP.
 
I also demoed the ACS T1 at Jaben in Singapore and I didn't like that one either, there wasn't much seperation and the bass was quite syrupy, I just couldn't get much out of it, that was my first CIEM demo and I was actually leaning towards music_4321's analysis a bit for a short time.
 
Thankfully I still had faith in CIEM's and when I heard the UM Mage and UM Miracle I finally heard what they are capable of!
 
At the same time if the UM Mage was a universal IEM and the SE535 was reshelled into a custom, then I would say still say the [universal] Mage is a lot better than the [custom] SE535.
 
 
I find it incorrect that Music_4321 has bought a $1,300 stainless steel IEM, and is calling every acrylic shell IEM downright overrated, even though all of them cost less! (except for one, UE18Pro).
 
I don't think custom IEM's have the stigma or myth of cables, portable amps and lossless or high-res content, if some people think acrylic shell IEM's are untouchable, and plastic OEM IEM's can't get close then I have overlooked that.
 
My suscpicion is the ES3X isn't very good (which he calls very good), actually I haven't heard anyone mention it in a long time, last I heard mention of it was from Music himself I think, what was that, half a year ago?  It really doesn't seem very popular =)... the UM Miracle is popular for a reason, I'd suspect, he should demo that one or something.
 
I have seen someone say they felt disappointed and the Miracle sounded quite similiar to their TF10, well I don't know what they were expecting maybe floorstanding speakers or something, or taking figurative examples too literally, such as "10 times better" or "Row D concert hall", in literal terms that means "1.5 times better" and "10 cm from my ear"...
 

One reason why the triple-BA driver ES3X is not mentioned anymore is that it costs $850. The much more talked about 5-BA driver ES5 costs only $100 more. The fact these days you can get a few customs with more drivers than the ES3X for (a lot) less than $850, and if you also consider that most people will invariably think and sinsist that the more drivers you get, the better SQ you get…
 
Having tried only one expensive custom IEM (and the high praise it got at the time), which was soon being (favourably) compared to the then recently launched and (much hyped) JH13 by a couple of people (the JH13 having twice as many drivers and being $250 more expensive), plus reports/reviews by some people whose views I've come to trust, and who have tried (many) other high-end universals or several customs, my views have not changed one bit.
 
Quote:

Oh, I've heard much worse than iBuds before! They made me glad I happily kept my own pair of iBuds, instead of ridiculously throwing them away "immediately" like many members here claim to do. I agree with all these statements, and that's why so many high-end audio companies sponsor Head-Fi... in hopes of perpetuating hype around their products! In many ways, music_4321 you're too responsible... it's up to the individual to decide whether an earphone is over-hyped or not, or will meet their expectations. We can't babysit everyone. I can get excited about a product as much as anyone here, but at the end of the day, I show my restraint and use my better judgement to determine what's reasonable and what's not.

Unfortunately, I'm sure I have inadvertently contributed to the 'hype'. However, the KEY difference is that I don't go round telling people that if they want to get great sound, they have to get a top-tier universal or custom IEM, or that the difference between these and (much) cheaper options are night and day. I still use my £50 EX500 quite a bit, and sometimes (for a variety of reasons) I listen to some music with them, and I always think, after coming from my much more expensive IEMs: These EX500s are pretty good phones.

One thing I didn't mention in my previous post, because I don't want to rehash things I've said a number of times already (mostly on the Customs Overrated thread), but perhaps worth mentioning once again, is: resale value and the often extra costs you have to add when getting customs. I've been able to sell quite a few (expensive) universals I've owned, many of which have retained very good resale value. The same can't be said of practically all customs. Like I said, there's more to it but I won't go into greater detail.
 
 

 

[tomscy2000]

Well, technically only the original GF1 and the new GX1 were/are worth buying. The others GF2/3, are watered down crap. The GH line has been tailored for video, and with something like the driftwood 50 mbps hack, can produce really great, near pro-quality 1080p video. Olympus has had a better selection of u4/3. With that said, I'm still waiting for an EVIL camera from Canon to come out. Canon has long had the best menu interfaces in the industry, and they almost always produce great quality sensors with good noise control.
 
Oh, and ugly? Well, if looks matter, then sure, whatever. Fuji's new X line probably has the best looks then. But for me, a camera's looks matter less to me than even in audio. I'd want my DAC to match my drapes, but I don't care if a 5D with an 85/1.2 looks silly or not.
 
Quote:

I think that the entire line of Panasonic's micro 4/3 is terrible and ugly. The Panny GX1 is the least offensive to me though.

 

 

[tomscy2000]

I'm thinking about trying the Comply Whoomp with some of those Hisound samples I was sent. The Hisound Living is a bit overly bright and skimps a little on bass, so maybe those silly little covers will help change that...
 
Quote:

Ok guys I caved in and am giving the stock iphone4 buds a try. I must admit they are "ok". Can't say anything special but if I was in a ghetto pinch I could live with them

 

 

[kiteki]

 
The JH16 and UERM don't receive reports of flying colours in average_joe's reviews of them really.
 
I don't suspect the ES3X can compete with it's acrylic contemporaries from other parts of the world, especially now, it seems the TDK BA200 and Sony XBA-4 are now completely fading out the UM3X and W4 as well.
 
 
It comes down to peoples value scaling systems of different aspects of sound too.
 
I have said high-end customs can do things no headphone can including Ultrasone Edition 10, but likewise a floorstanding speaker and full-size headphone can do things no IEM can ever do and they all deserve respect in their own rights.
 
The same rule applies to Sony EX1000 or JVC FX700 versus 5, 6, 7 or 8 driver CIEM's imho.
 
Logically the former will have the best linearity and uniformity of soundspace and signature, and the latter may have a slightly different character in the bass, mids or highs but the question I ask is how important is this really.
 
The slight non-linearity, whether it's intentional or a mistake, could be worth the sonic masterpiece of the rest of the signature.
 
 
 

 

[tomscy2000]

Now, now, don't misrepresent me here! haha... I don't think the BA200 is superior to the UM3x and W4... but it brings the same feel and taste in a dual driver package, but the BA200 definitely doesn't outstrip the W4. The SM3v2 I just heard today is also invariably a superior IEM.
 
Quote:

 
I don't suspect the ES3X can compete with it's acrylic contemporaries from other parts of the world, it seems the TDK BA200 and Sony XBA-4 are now completely fading out the UM3X and W4 as well.