[kman1211]

There's lots of adherents to valve (tube) amplifiers for bright neutral headphones like the DT 880, T1, HD800. I find that unusual and wonder if it's better to have a tube-like headphone with a solid state amplifier (like a HD650 or something else) which is the only option I have. I'll try that Unknown Pleasures song and observe the effect of high gain although it will be a few days until I get off my HD580 which I've only just 'tuned in' to.

With the T1 the neutral bright only really applies to the gen 1. The gen 2 and especially gen 3 are very differently tuned headphones. And none of the T1’s nor the DT 880’s need tubes as much as the HD 6xx series imho. I’m not that familiar with the HD 800 as I only heard it a few times. Honestly with the HD 600 and HD 650 the only time I truly liked them was on tubes.

 

[TrollDragon]

I really enjoy the DT880 on tubes, much more than I do on solid state.

 

[Sefelt103]

…except that the HD650 is one of the cans that benefits the most from a tube amp!

And none of the T1’s nor the DT 880’s need tubes as much as the HD 6xx series imho.

I thought a warm tube amplifier might be too much of a good thing with headphones like the HD650 or to a lesser extent the earlier HD580. I've heard but never heard certain types of tube amplifiers can be very neutral, is it the enhanced soundstage that the HD6xx line needs or some other trait(s) ? They sound so good with my current setup already it's hard to imagine a worthwhile improvement.

 

[kman1211]

I thought a warm tube amplifier might be too much of a good thing with headphones like the HD650 or to a lesser extent the earlier HD580. I've heard but never heard certain types of tube amplifiers can be very neutral, is it the enhanced soundstage that the HD6xx line needs or some other trait(s) ? They sound so good with my current setup already it's hard to imagine a worthwhile improvement.

You would think but it's not necessarily the case, I find the HD 6xx series becomes more 3D and much larger in terms of the soundstage, it did a lot of subtle things that just made them sound much better on tubes to my ears, also nicer tube amps address the main issue I have with the HD 600/650 that is the somewhat rough upper mids they can have on many systems at least to my ears, I went with the R70X for the HD 600/650 type tuning as it was easier for me to get them how I liked them. The DT 880 was a little different, while they sounded great on tubes, some of the best systems I heard the DT 880 600 Ohm were solid state not just tubes, whereas on the HD 600 and HD 650 the absolute best I heard them were all nice OTL amps. Of course this varies from person to person, it was just my own experience with the headphones.

 

[Skylah]

I can’t even put it into layman’s terms because, like math back in my school days, I’m tech info/ learning challenged. So I’m a subjective audiophile. Everything I evaluate I do by ear/ listening. Also, I listen to CDs and I use EQ [horror of horrors the purists will hate me.] The only DAC I have is the internal one in my CD player. The other thing about a good vintage amplifier/ receiver is, the headphone input has internal resistors to protect your headphones, but you get the whole amp itself, same as what goes out to the speakers. There’s no separate little inner HP amp compartment. This applies to vintage amps/ receivers up to 1978/79. My amp came out in 1974 [I was with my older brother when he bought it].

Another thing that I always try to remember is that all music is recorded/ produced differently. As an example, some recordings will bring out sibilance in an headphone like the DT880/ 600 ohm which is why I EQ my music. A small adjustment is all that’s needed.

Here’s a YouTube video about listening to headphone using vintage amps. The video was made by an Head-fi member. He mentions a couple of things I wrote.

You've convinced me on vintage receivers I think, although the actual logistics of one fitting in my setup & scouting for one will be a different ordeal

 

[Sefelt103]

You would think but it's not necessarily the case, I find the HD 6xx series becomes more 3D and much larger in terms of the soundstage, it did a lot of subtle things that just made them sound much better on tubes to my ears, also nicer tube amps address the main issue I have with the HD 600/650 that is the somewhat rough upper mids they can have on many systems at least to my ears, I went with the R70X for the HD 600/650 type tuning as it was easier for me to get them how I liked them. The DT 880 was a little different, while they sounded great on tubes, some of the best systems I heard the DT 880 600 Ohm were solid state not just tubes, whereas on the HD 600 and HD 650 the absolute best I heard them were all nice OTL amps. Of course this varies from person to person, it was just my own experience with the headphones.

What you're describing in relation to the HD6xx line ie. more 3D and larger soundstage with tubes are not goals I would look for. I've also never perceived the midrange to be 'rough' in this line of headphones. None of this means of course that others may not want or perceive these sonic attributes. My difficulty is that my curiosity exceeds my ability to access or purchase headphones or amplifiers. It's a bit like some large jigsaw puzzle that will never be completed. As for the DT 880 it has so many variants that while many versions are quite similar sounding it further complicates system choices.

 

[kman1211]

What you're describing in relation to the HD6xx line ie. more 3D and larger soundstage with tubes are not goals I would look for. I've also never perceived the midrange to be 'rough' in this line of headphones. None of this means of course that others may not want or perceive these sonic attributes. My difficulty is that my curiosity exceeds my ability to access or purchase headphones or amplifiers. It's a bit like some large jigsaw puzzle that will never be completed. As for the DT 880 it has so many variants that while many versions are quite similar sounding it further complicates system choices.

How the Hd 6xx images is a bit different than on solid state, they’re not any less intimate, it ultimately just sounds more natural to my ears. Yeah some reason I’ve always found the HD 6xx series kinda rough sounding sadly in the upper mids and lower treble causing them to be fatiguing to me, I think it has to do with ear canal shape, I know some people that have the same issue with roughness and others seem confused I mentioned it. But all headphones are polarizing due to the personal nature of this hobby. Sadly it can be difficult to get access to higher quality gear, I was lucky to be able to audition a lot of stuff that is beyond what I could afford. The real challenge is trying to find gear that offers the best value and suits ones personal taste.

There are numerous DT 880 variants, haven’t really heard the older ones so not sure how they differ from the modern ones. Heck even the special black editions measure differently than the normal DT 880’s, the pro and premium have a slight difference from each other but not as large as the Black editions difference. I have been wanting to hear the older/vintage variants of the DT 880 and hear how the DT 880 changed over time. But I’ll have to try and find a pair in good condition and I don’t see those often. I need to start searching for a pair sometime.

 

[Sefelt103]

Audio is interesting in that you can read opinions about headphones you own or have heard and compare these with one's own experience. I've often been surprised or disagreed or come across some confusing contradiction with things said that there is an explanation for but the knowledge or data or some other unknown isn't there. Often people describe the HD6xx line as smooth where your perception is it's rough which is why you're into the Beyerdynamic camp with their models. There's a lot of effort in trying to evaluate audio equipment and I find comparing headphones and amplifiers quite fatiguing. My way of evaluating is to simply spend a long time with the equipment and try to get a general impression which I have done with the DT 880. The thing that irritates me with this one is I know the day I get rid I'll want to come back to compare it against some other headphone. Those older DT 880's from the 1980s are available now and then.

 

[Skylah]

You've convinced me on vintage receivers I think, although the actual logistics of one fitting in my setup & scouting for one will be a different ordeal

UPDATE: Just bought a recently serviced Sansui AU-101. This was more of me dipping my feet into the world of vintage receivers due to this purchase being on the cheaper side + being weaker than the more lauded receivers of the time but it should still have more than enough power to drive my cans + it being previously serviced makes the quality more guaranteed. If I love what I hear, I wouldn't mind jumping into something more stronger down the track for an possible end-game amplification source (at least for high impedance headphones & planars, for lower impedance headphones I'm thinking of just using the headphone out on the RME ADI-2 DAC that I plan on buying eventually as an end-game DAC)

 

[Skylah]

Also I don't know if anyone listens to John Fahey in this thread, but my favourite artist of all time sounds incredible on these cans

 

[jonathan c]

I really enjoy the DT880 on tubes, much more than I do on solid state.

So do I - especially on an OTL tube headphone amplifier for the 600 ohm DT-880! (From looking at the specifications for the LD-IV, I assume that it is OTL…). DT-880 chez moi:

 

[TrollDragon]

So do I - especially on an OTL tube headphone amplifier for the 600 ohm DT-880! (From looking at the specifications for the LD-IV, I assume that it is OTL…). DT-880 chez moi:

Yes the Little Dot MK IV is an OTL just like your WA3. OTL and beyers have a perfect synergy.

 

[Sefelt103]

It depends on the recording to be perfectly honest. I find that a lot of pop & hip-hop seems loud enough that increasing gain leads to distortion, especially in the bass regions. That could be a result of lazy mastering in mainstream music today but it sounds fine on regular gain settings (I have the 2.5x & 6.5x O2s for reference)

Something else entirely, like Stevie Wonder's Love's In Need of Love Today (1976) or Blind Willie Johnson's Dark Was The Night, Cold Was The Ground (1928), really come alive with the higher gain setting turned on, although I can't quite comment on the full album experience just yet.

Update: Include Joy Division - Disorder (1979) with that statement above.

I tried listening at excessive volumes with my O2/ODAC and DT 880 Premium Edition 600Ω. I didn't really notice much difference between the low gain and high gain (my O2 was modified to reduce the high gain multiplier to less than 6.5x). I could only hear bass distortion at max. volume on high gain on the Disorder track on Unknown Pleasures and even then it wasn't very much. The Undertones Beautiful Friend however I did notice a lot more bass distortion. I forgot to mention I have also modified my DT 880 with 1 ply of toilet paper to reduce the treble. I can only imagine the pain that those tracks would have delivered through increased treble as well. So really bass distortion on these headphones as far as I can tell will only be an issue to people listening at hearing damaging levels or people who are boosting the bass through EQ. The latter is likely to be more of an issue but the DT 880 is in with a whole variety of dynamic driver headphones and it is not something really to be considered as a defect. After listening only to the DT 880 for several hours I still find it too bright and prefer listening at lower levels. Whether the ply of toilet paper affects the bass distortion I don't know and that's not an experiment I'm in any hurry to try. I also wonder whether this modification has taken the edge off finer detail. This is why I dislike modifying headphones. So I can't really figure out why it still seems detailed but also a little 'blunt' compared to my Sennheisers.

 

[CJG888]

Have you tried the R70x?

 

[Sefelt103]

No, I was quite interested in them a little while ago. However their availability is not good here and they are quite expensive.