[r010159]

I do not understand why some describe the treble the way they do, using exaggerated terms, like "spikes in the ear". I am very sensitive to the very high frequencies. The treble is boosted a bit, but by not that much, maybe a few decibles. My sensitive ears have no problems with it in several hours of listening. Listening all day and night may be a different situation. The pros that mix and master albums use them, so overall, they cannot be that far off. Looking at the FR graph presented by @legopart, tells a different story. I see the upper middle frequencies being a bit recessed. However, the FR curve returns back to neutral for the high frequencies, except for perhaps a few decible boost, which looks like to be about 3 decibles, for the most part. This explains what I am hearing. I do not think a three decible boost of the high frequencies would be like driving spikes into ones ears. LOL

Assuming that comment actually describes their experience, I would look elsewhere for the source of that problem. With me, it turned out to be the software audio player running on my Mac. At first, I thought it was the headphones too. I had to massively EQ the HF to make the FR close to neutral. One song in the greatest hits album of Enya had a couple notes sung by her sound sibilant to me. This really bothered my ears after listening to it several times. The EQ I used took about all of this away. I then switched to a second player, The sound came across much more neutral, and natural, without any EQing. No more sibilance. No more music being bothersome to my ears. The difference to my sensitive ears was like night and day. I expected this player to sound the same as the first, but it did not. So my problem went away. Like magic, eh? So much for bit perfect playback. BTW at one point in time, I was using an amp that also had boosted HF. This together with the player, which did the same, and the headphones, did tire my ears out.

PS I think each audio player is set up to sound its best, tricks and all. It then has to be reconfigured for bit perfect playback. Sometime figuring out how to do this is no easy task. Seeking help from the author does not necessarily help that much.

FWIW

 

[ToTo Man]

I do not understand why some describe the treble the way they do, using exaggerated terms, like "spikes in the ear". I am very sensitive to the very high frequencies. The treble is boosted a bit, but by not that much, maybe a few decibles. My sensitive ears have no problems with it in several hours of listening. Listening all day and night may be a different situation. The pros that mix and master albums use them, so overall, they cannot be that far off. Looking at the FR graph presented by @legopart, tells a different story. I see the upper middle frequencies being a bit recessed. However, the FR curve returns back to neutral for the high frequencies, except for perhaps a few decible boost, which looks like to be about 3 decibles, for the most part. This explains what I am hearing. I do not think a three decible boost of the high frequencies would be like driving spikes into ones ears. LOL

Assuming that comment actually describes their experience, I would look elsewhere for the source of that problem. With me, it turned out to be the software audio player running on my Mac. At first, I thought it was the headphones too. I had to massively EQ the HF to make the FR close to neutral. One song in the greatest hits album of Enya had a couple notes sung by her sound sibilant to me. This really bothered my ears after listening to it several times. The EQ I used took about all of this away. I then switched to a second player, The sound came across much more neutral, and natural, without any EQing. No more sibilance. No more music being bothersome to my ears. The difference to my sensitive ears was like night and day. I expected this player to sound the same as the first, but it did not. So my problem went away. Like magic, eh? So much for bit perfect playback. BTW at one point in time, I was using an amp that also had boosted HF. This together with the player, which did the same, and the headphones, did tire my ears out.

PS I think each audio player is set up to sound its best, tricks and all. It then has to be reconfigured for bit perfect playback. Sometime figuring out how to do this is no easy task. Seeking help from the author does not necessarily help that much.

FWIW

Headphones are notoriously difficult to measure, especially in the HF, so different headphone measurement gear can produce different FR graphs. Also, smoothing can be applied to FR graphs to make them look flatter than they really are. Some believe the human ear acts as a natural smoothing filter and doesn't hear a peak or dip that has a very narrow Q. Perhaps some ears are naturally better at smoothing than others?!

For me personally, I find the DT880's treble unnaturally steely and for this reason I cannot listen to it as loudly as my HD600, HD800S or Utopia without experiencing discomfort. Applying a -4dB or -5dB EQ cut at 8kHz-12kHz removes this steeliness and makes the DT880 a much smoother listen for me.

The source and amplification of course also matters, but I have not found an amp for the DT880 that completely eliminates the need for EQ'ing the DT880. If it did then this amp would probably pair badly with many other headphones!

It's also important to remember that everyone's hearing is different, they have different shapes of pinnae and the sensitivity of their auditory hair cells to different frequencies will also vary. Some listeners, for example, may find a peak at 6kHz more objectionable than a peak at 9kHz, and vice versa.

Hearing sensitivity usually decreases with age, and it is often the highest frequencies that roll off first. So while a 30 year old might hear 10kHz as loudly as 5kHz, a 60 year old might be -10dB down at 10kHz and therefore probably won't be bothered by a headphone that has a peak at 10kHz.

Finally, the possibility of intersample variations between the same model of headphone should not be overlooked. I know this from personal experience. I ordered three brand new pairs of HD600 at the same time, and found that each pair had a different size of peak at 3.5kHz. I've also noticed audible differences in the sound of two pairs of HD800S, two pairs of Utopia and two pairs of ADX5000. It may therefore be possible that the DT880 you bought does not have as much HF energy as the pair I bought.

 

[Sefelt103]

@To To Man, agree with you. There are so many different variables that shape people's experience. I find the DT 880 too bright and metallic. Changing over from other headphones is even worse until your ears/mind gets used to the piercing treble. Brightly mastered albums become unplayable and even albums that aren't brightly mastered sometimes have tracks with an instrument that lands in the 9kHz region. Many prefer the more balanced HD600 even though it is perhaps not so accurate/neutral (apart from the DT 880's treble) as the DT 880.

 

[CADCAM]

I have the DT880 & DT990 both 600ohm, love them both... bought the HD600 twice and sold them twice. Different cans for different ears and head shapes. Program material, source, manufacturing tolerances, pad age and material, associated equipment etc. all factor in on the sound of your particular system. All we can do is get educated by sites like this one and work within our budget. I have three separate headphone setups right now and depending on what I looking for I listen to one or another.
Great hobby!

 

[legopart]

My dt880 almost perfec, not going to fix this peak on 8kHz
I think only because of it I reccomend the 600ohm one.

Comparing to T1, This peak on 8kHz is unsufferble !!!

I think to send this issue on T1 thread.
yes... T1 having bigger stage from Dt880

*my measurment its not 100% as the proffesional ones, and I done lots of experiments on my pairs.

 

[ToTo Man]

My dt880 almost perfec, not going to fix this peak on 8kHz
I think only because of it I reccomend the 600ohm one.

Comparing to T1, This peak on 8kHz is unsufferble !!!

I think to send this issue on T1 thread.
yes... T1 having bigger stage from Dt880

*my measurment its not 100% as the proffesional ones, and I done lots of experiments on my pairs.

Is there really no smoothing applied to your measurements? The lines looks suspiciously smooth to me!

 

[r010159]

@ToTo Man

Thank you for your detailed response to my confusion. Everything you have said makes sense to me. This is also why some listeners can hear a DAC/Amp differently from other listeners. Perhaps the ear can even magnify or deemphasize certain frequency ranges compared to other persons ears, possibly due to having more or less hairs in the ear for that frequency region? There are so many variables here, just with differences in ears alone, My ears are funny. I am 61 years old with some degree of hearing impairment. I played around with an online tone generator that is provided by an university for this purpose. I can see the loss in decibles for a given frequency using 1K as a reference, essentially mapping out the response curve of my ears. There is a drop off with my ears around 9K, in one ear more than the other. Then it picks back up all the way close to 13K. This is nothing scientific, but it gave me an idea of the response curve of my ears, using these headphones. Mapping out tones as to when they start to become apparent to me also gave me very interesting results. BTW there are some similar websites that do attempt to help you calibrate the volume setting. However, my only concern is what I can hear at what is to me normal listening levels.

PS Here is an interesting thought. Maybe it is the earphones that are artificially extending my range of hearing, up to near 13K? Makes me feel like a younger man. LOL

 

[legopart]

Is there really no smoothing applied to your measurements? The lines looks suspiciously smooth to me!

headphones not required any smoothing,
the graph of all headphones that I know even the cheap one looks fine without smoothing
speakers I smooth a little bit.
*Yes its not smoothed

 

[kman1211]

My dt880 almost perfec, not going to fix this peak on 8kHz
I think only because of it I reccomend the 600ohm one.

Comparing to T1, This peak on 8kHz is unsufferble !!!

I think to send this issue on T1 thread.
yes... T1 having bigger stage from Dt880

*my measurment its not 100% as the proffesional ones, and I done lots of experiments on my pairs.

Which version of the T1 is measured? I have zero issues with the 8khz region on my T1.2 and it’s basically HD 650 warm.

 

[ToTo Man]

headphones not required any smoothing,
the graph of all headphones that I know even the cheap one looks fine without smoothing
speakers I smooth a little bit.
*Yes its not smoothed

Tyll Hertsens measurements often show a jagged response above 10kHz.

 

[legopart]

Which version of the T1 is measured? I have zero issues with the 8khz region on my T1.2 and it’s basically HD 650 warm.

T1.2 Some new version.

 

[kman1211]

T1.2 Some new version.

Ah okay, it could also be how the treble texture is on the Tesla’s is why I perceive the treble as I do which is quite different than the DT 880. I have noticed varying opinions on both the DT 880’s treble as well as the T1’s treble. I personally always found the DT 880 and kin a bit sharp in its treble and a tad steely (it’s not something that bothers me, especially the 600 ohm variant which I found the least sharp and least steely sounding) but never the case on the T1.2.

 

[ToTo Man]

headphones not required any smoothing, the graph of all headphones that I know even the cheap one looks fine without smoothing
speakers I smooth a little bit.
*Yes its not smoothed

Have you made measurements of any other headphones? I'm interested to see comparison of DT880 to headphones such as HD600, HD650, HD800/S, ADX5000, Utopia, etc.

 

[legopart]

Have you made measurements of any other headphones? I'm interested to see comparison of DT880 to headphones such as HD600, HD650, HD800/S, ADX5000, Utopia, etc.

Sorry not have enough headphones for comparing.

for me, this headphones are the best fot the avarage price.

*again, this measurements from my equipment (not proffesional)

 

[r010159]

@legopart

You hav very interesting FR graphs. I can see that the T1 is not for me, The Senn HD6XX goes wonky after 3K. I wonder what that is about? Mark that one off my list. The Grados have a low end shelf of up to 5 Db. Not good for sub-bass. I see the DT880s have an actual boost of 5 Db at 8K, not 3 Db. Yes, that would definitely bother some ears. It would not and does not not bother me due to my hearing peculiarities mentioned earlier. I think older people do need the HF boosted anyway. I wonder if it is possible to map the FR when the headphones are being used with a particular amp?

As a note, the FR graph of the DT880s is different from the one published by Inner Fidelity. For instance, the graph from Inner Fidelity shows much more recessed mids, also where the highs actually show up with less of a boost, I think yours is more accurate. What are you doing differently?

I wonder what the Amiron Home headset FR would be? This is my next purchase as a goal of mine.