[MrEleventy]

Man that's a purty tube amp. Too rich for me. lol I'm sticking with my DV336.

 

[TrollDragon]

And am I with the Little Dot MK IV... I'd just like to hear the Woo and maybe get a litle drool on it... 

 

[Chris J]

Don't be surprised if you want to keep them both H20 - quite a few of us have both.  In fact I've had both twice (sold and repurchased both cans).

I admit to having a hankering for a pair of HD600s!
I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts WRT a comparison of the two???
please?
Neutral headphone vs. neutral headphone, hmmm, could be interesting.

 

[FiJAAS]

Would a Fiio E07K Andes be enough to drive DT 880 Pro 250 ohm version?

How would you guys stack that version against the DT 990?

 

[Brooko]

I admit to having a hankering for a pair of HD600s!
I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts WRT a comparison of the two???
please?
Neutral headphone vs. neutral headphone, hmmm, could be interesting.

 
Hi Chris - I wrote this a few months ago on the HD600 thread when I was posed a similar question.  It still mirrors my thoughts today.  Funny thing was that one of the Admins here obviously thought it was worth highlighting, and it actually made the front page for a while.  Anyway - here's the post .....
 

 
I have both - they're a nice complement to each other.
 
Build and fit
I'd give the Beyers the nod on the build - less plastic, more metal, more durable.  But the Senns are no slouch either.  Completely modular (unlike the Beyers) and parts are easy enough for the user to replace.  As far as comfort goes - the HD600 are a bit clampy at first - but both really comfortable.  Beyer by a nod.
 
Driveability
Assuming you get 250 ohm Beyers - the Senns are still easier to drive.  But pretty comparable.
 
My impressions (subjective).  
Both quite neutral.  I'd actually say the Beyer is the flatter of the two.  It has slightly better extension (both ends), but has some treble peaks which make it slightly brighter than what I would call 'realistic'.  Still a lovely can to listen to though - and that's why I still have it.  All-rounder really.
 
HD600 also very neutral - but (and this is a difference) - it is the more natural of the two.  HD600 has better presentation of timbre and tone.  A violin really sounds like a violin.  Nothing is spotlit.  It has a little bump in the mid-bass that the Beyer doesn't have - and this gives a little impact - but again sounds quite natural (to me anyway).
 
Stage / Imaging
Staging is similar on both, as is imaging.  Beyer (because of its slightly brighter top end) can give the illusion of bigger stage, more space, better separation - but to me this is just an illusion.  Apply some EQ to the HD600 and it can do exactly the same.  The HD600 is still quite open - but the stage is very natural (not over-emphasised), and imaging is really good.  It's not expansive like the AKG K7xx series - but it is completely believable.
 
Realism
Touched on this earlier - but thought I would explain something about the HD600.  I have quite a few really good live recordings.  Among them is Bonamassa's live concert from the Vienna Opera House and also Loreena McKennitt's live concert from Toronto & Paris.  Both are fantastic recordings - and I have to admit that with Joe's concert from Vienna - I do love what the Beyers do with Joe's guitar work (stunning).  But in both recordings (for me anyway), there are passages where I can close my eyes, and the HD600 can actually put me in the audience.  It is utterly believable.  That's something the Beyer (for me) doesn't quite achieve.
 
Both have their strengths.  Both are fantastic phones.  That's why - although I have sold both before - I also repurchased them, and they remain with me now.  Both are keepers.
 

 

[ccash]

HEY, KNOCK IT OFF!
 
I've spent over $800 since finding this damn forum last month! Last year I told my buddy he was nuts for spending $400 on a pair of headphones. "Really, FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS on a pair of HEADPHONES?!?!" (well, they were Beats, so he was crazy...)
 
On top of that, I almost just bought Sen HD 650s bundled with a Darkvoice 336 (it's probably still in the classifieds right now). I really liked the 650s -- they were one of the few headphone I actually got to audition when I was searching. I passed, and just bought a new DV 336. And tubes.
 
But I would have gone from, oh, just looking for a pair of $200-ish headphones, to buying the 880s, a new DAC, a tube amp, and ANOTHER pair of expensive phones!! 

 
AND NOW you have the nerve to wave the HD600s in front of me, with nice reviews and comparisons and all... 
 
evil... this place is evil...

 

[pp312]

   

 
I have both - they're a nice complement to each other.
 
Build and fit
I'd give the Beyers the nod on the build - less plastic, more metal, more durable.  But the Senns are no slouch either.  Completely modular (unlike the Beyers) and parts are easy enough for the user to replace.  As far as comfort goes - the HD600 are a bit clampy at first - but both really comfortable.  Beyer by a nod.
 
Driveability
Assuming you get 250 ohm Beyers - the Senns are still easier to drive.  But pretty comparable.
 
My impressions (subjective).  
Both quite neutral.  I'd actually say the Beyer is the flatter of the two.  It has slightly better extension (both ends), but has some treble peaks which make it slightly brighter than what I would call 'realistic'.  Still a lovely can to listen to though - and that's why I still have it.  All-rounder really.
 
HD600 also very neutral - but (and this is a difference) - it is the more natural of the two.  HD600 has better presentation of timbre and tone.  A violin really sounds like a violin.  Nothing is spotlit.  It has a little bump in the mid-bass that the Beyer doesn't have - and this gives a little impact - but again sounds quite natural (to me anyway).
 
Stage / Imaging
Staging is similar on both, as is imaging.  Beyer (because of its slightly brighter top end) can give the illusion of bigger stage, more space, better separation - but to me this is just an illusion.  Apply some EQ to the HD600 and it can do exactly the same.  The HD600 is still quite open - but the stage is very natural (not over-emphasised), and imaging is really good.  It's not expansive like the AKG K7xx series - but it is completely believable.
 
Realism
Touched on this earlier - but thought I would explain something about the HD600.  I have quite a few really good live recordings.  Among them is Bonamassa's live concert from the Vienna Opera House and also Loreena McKennitt's live concert from Toronto & Paris.  Both are fantastic recordings - and I have to admit that with Joe's concert from Vienna - I do love what the Beyers do with Joe's guitar work (stunning).  But in both recordings (for me anyway), there are passages where I can close my eyes, and the HD600 can actually put me in the audience.  It is utterly believable.  That's something the Beyer (for me) doesn't quite achieve.
 
Both have their strengths.  Both are fantastic phones.  That's why - although I have sold both before - I also repurchased them, and they remain with me now.  Both are keepers.
 

 
Those are interesting impressions, Brooko. I'm one who's owned the HD600 (and the 650 for about three years) and remained dissatisfied with it for classical. I find there's too much energy in the 1--5khz area, and this gives mass violins a rather screechy quality. If you compare FRs of HD600 and DT880 you see what I mean. I prefer a slightly laid back effect in that area. Yes, the 600 will provide more general punch and detail because of its forwardness here, but at the cost of listening fatigue. I just could never come to terms with that.
 

DT880
 

HD600

 

[Brooko]

Preference I guess - but I'd stand behind my assertion that the DT880 is too bright to be completely natural - but is still more neutral than the HD600. To me - the HD600 has always been far more natural though - and it's timbre to me is far more life-like - especially for strings.  YMMV.
 
I know you prefer the DT880.
 
I like them both.

 

[pp312]

  Preference I guess - but I'd stand behind my assertion that the DT880 is too bright to be completely natural
 
 

 
 
I agree, and I should have added that I sometimes use it with -2db treble. Initially I always used this setting, but then found some recordings sounding distinctly dull. It seemed burn-in was raising its ugly head. Now there are only a very few recordings that sound a touch sharp and need roll-off; surprisingly few going strictly by the FR. Of course, all his needs to be viewed in light of the fact that I'm 67. What seems right to me may well have 22 year olds running screaming from the room.    

 

[Brooko]

I'm hearing you.  I'm 47- but find the DT880's a delight un-eq'd.  Mind you - I also really liked the SR325i 

 

[BbOO]

I am not blown away by these headphones performance with classical and jazz. I always expected these genres to sound much "larger" and lusher (is that a word?) with quality headphones.

 

[music4cities]

Hi everyone. New to the forum as I just bought at dt880 at 600ohm premium. Why hold back ? Seriously found a decent price and as they are used In one place the power demands are not an issue for me and I wanted the best sound most comfortable set I could get (after suffering with grado outer ear pain, iem middle ear pain, etc) and i understand the clamping force is lighter on the premiums. I don't intend to use these on the go. y decision was informed in part on the info on these pages so thanks! These sound wonderful out of the box and I could wear them all day. Some thoughts...

Sound quality:
The dt880 is just as they say wonderful airy clarity that's not overly clinical. treble extension is stunning but does not seem unbalanced. perhaps a tad too shimmery on some recordings. But not sibilant; cymbal crashes sound tight, not smeared. The dt880 seem great at classical, rock, acoustic and classical. Some have said that the dt 880s are not ideal for electronic,but I find them great for this genera, with tight bass that allows a full presentation as soundstage of the rest. The recordings / rips have to be good to begin with though. If the bass is sloppy as recorded then the dt800 reveals it. On a couple recordings, At first I thought the phone was not handling the bass well at alll as it sounded muddy and warmly, like a woofer being overwhelmed San distorted. But on a different track with similar bass it was tight, deep and clear. Or going back to the cd cleared up all the bass issues with some lossy files. Having said that most AAC files ripped at 320 sound great; the dt 800 are revealing but do not require lossless or WAV to sounds great. Indeed the soundstage and midrange helps less than ideal recordings/rips. Things are not smoothed out so much as spaced out.

For the first time I can turn off all software eq (and that is regardless of weather I am using and external dac or amp). I'd always have to fiddle within before depending on the phones, dialing up the mid range on some, lowering the bass on others to keep the mids from being overwhelmed, or taming sibilance with treble attenuation. The dt880s sound right out of the box and without any eq or manipulation.

I will take the dt880 presence and soundstage any day over over my experiences with senn phones. I've tried several models and find them very odd, like they are simulating music played in a cathedral lined with felt padding. Very odd. I get the principle behind the senn dark sound and have owned a few over the years. I will admit it makes the smaller senn models like the px-100 seam like "bigger" circumaural phones, and on actual circumaural senns the sound does appear less in your head. In fact like a speaker set up on the other end of my aforementioned felt lined cathedral. But it always seams manipulative. In fact too close to the sort of trickery used by Bose to make "big sound" in small boxes. That's fine for what's it's intended but I find it tiresome over long periods as well as super compromised in sound. I mean who wants to live in a felt lined cathedral? I gather there are senn models with a different sound signature. But the philosophy of the dt880s suit my preferences for an open, modern, accurate presentation.

But then big electrostatic speakers are my equipment nirvana. They don't fit in my office however. I looked into stax and other electrostatic headphones. The dt880 get much of the acoustic quality at a price I can more easily manage and less complication. Even at 600 ohm, I can in a pinch use the the dt 880s without an external amp on an iPod.They are not loud and not at their best but they work and sound ok. Or I can use them with a portable amp (the fiio e12 works great, see below).

Case:
Speaking of mobility, the included deluxe but gigantic case is almost laughable from a portability point of view. Don't get me wrong. I think it's 100% class and makes tremendous sense to turn the shipping padding that one throws away, landfills or at best recycles into something integral to the product itself that you could use for its lifetime! Really really smart on a number of levels. But it's a case you use for storing not for travel (it would take up half a carry on-- but then the dt880s don't want to go tourist I suppose)

On the Premium version features:
As I said I wanted max comfort for all day wear. Plus those metal tabs that stick up on the sides of the premium variants look awesome! Seriously I read some wonder what those are for. From my preliminary examination I think they serve at least two purposes in addition to Germanic satin polished metal bling: 1) they counteract over torquing when the band is stretched, ie too much force acting on the joint between the band and the phone bracket by pushing back on the band itself. This may relieve some strain and help durability from daily wear.on the I haven't taken it apart but I also suspect they reinforce the connection of the cup brackets to the band as well: ie more metal at that junction. Second, they may help with the comfort factor in use, acting a a sort of opposing spring force to the band itself that allows less clamping force to still seal the phone to the head. I think they are functional in that regard.


Amp wanderlust :
of course I have fallen prey to wanting to try a tube amp for the first time. Can't afford much at the moment however after the phone outlay. I wonder is it worth trying a schiit vali out? I am currently using a fiio e12 that came with the phones as part of a package deal and a schiit modi.

I like the fiio e12 a lot actually. They seem to drive the dt880 without any strain, distortion or clipping and with noise floor below my middle age ears range at either of the gain settings. Either gain setting of which seem the same in in sq; the normal 0db gain will drive the phones fine for most recordings. The vol. pot is turned almost all the way up of course though at its loudest it a bit too loud for extended listening. I usually use the higher gain setting and the vol pot never goes past a half turn and is usually more at a third. The bass boost is usually off but it proves useful on some recordings (especially lossy files). The bass boost is not grotesque and seems to extend into the lower midrange which either smooths out sound in non-optimal lossy codecs and/or harsh thin mastering jobs (I'm looking at you 1980s rock cd pressings), work well on on classical orchestral where the quiet bass strings etc are brought out more, or it makes a mess of the good tight bass extension of the dt 880s with well ripped already bass heavy recordings (eg massive attack becomes mud attack).

 

[music4cities]

BbOO,
Sounds like its time to upgrade to the 600ohm or start rolling tubes . Kidding. I've never have a tube amp and you seem like an expert.

I'm pretty happy with my dt 880 performance with classical, especially orchestral. Don't know if it has anything do with the 600ohm vs 250ohm, dac and or amp, or just taste. It's not lush -- the senn phones I have tried are more lush perhaps but at a cost of clarity. But the dt880 seem very expansive and clear. Very smooth, little grain. Like an orchestral in a fairly live concert hall (ie more wood and less upholstery). The recording itself is crucial and the dt 880 does not seem too forgiving in classical; i have tried the same pieces with different recordings and one can sound harsh and thin and the other full and smooth. As I mentioned in my other post, the bass boost on my fiio e12 does come in handy with classical recordings, giving the low-mid and bass instruments more presence. You might try a bit of eq. I compared software eq to the fiio bass boost and the amp seemed a bit better, a bit more power where needed without passing the whole signal through an additional software process before the dac. It's the one eq I am using with the dt880

 

[MrEleventy]

I have the Vali and I have the DT880/600s but the two have not met paths yet. The Vali is in a different location of the house and I've only used my DT770/250 Prems on them. With that said... I don't know how well the Vali and 880/600s would get along. I say that because with the 770/250s, I'm pretty close to maxing out the pot. Just a few degrees away. With quiet tracks, I have to max it. I don't know if it's due to the source (Galaxy S3) or not but if it's struggling with 250ohms, I can't imagine it doing better with a 600 ohm load. Just my two cents. Perhaps I'll arrange a meeting one day in the near future and report back.

 

[genclaymore]

Never know it might do a good job with the DT880 premium 600's but you wont find out til you receive the vali, I thought about the vali alot for my T90 but i have my doubts on how the combo would sound to me with my NFB15.32.