[CBonUK]

If the extra £250-300 is an obstacle for you then the DT880 is still a very good headphone, and amazing value for the money.

I have both the DT880 Pro and the DT1990 Pro, and my preference lies with the DT1990 - it's an all round improvement to my ears, but that in no way diminishes what I think about the DT880, which punches well above it's price point.

​What would you say the competitors are for the DT880, and what are they for the DT1990 ?  Its hard to know where they are placed.  Also, on a percentage improvement (IE how much better), how would you quantify the all round improvement the DT1990 represents over the DT880 ?  Is there any way to score them perhaps ?

 

[mysticstryk]

​What would you say the competitors are for the DT880, and what are they for the DT1990 ?  Its hard to know where they are placed.  Also, on a percentage improvement (IE how much better), how would you quantify the all round improvement the DT1990 represents over the DT880 ?  Is there any way to score them perhaps ?

I would take the dt880/600 over any of Beyers higher offerings. Competitors? Akg k702/7xx and hd6x0 line. The hd6x0 will take you further as you upgrade gear, a little more so than dt880.

If you want a direct upgrade path from the dt880, your looking at an hd800, but will need to build a system around it.

 

[xinghui0711]

I would take the dt880/600 over any of Beyers higher offerings. Competitors? Akg k702/7xx and hd6x0 line. The hd6x0 will take you further as you upgrade gear, a little more so than dt880.

If you want a direct upgrade path from the dt880, your looking at an hd800, but will need to build a system around it.

I have both but often grabbing DT880 instead of HD800 dispite The price difference being 10x times. Both are relatively easy to reach certain SPL but HD800 needs some harmonic distortions from tube amps to sound musical.

 

[SHAMuuu]

I have both but often grabbing DT880 instead of HD800 dispite The price difference being 10x times. Both are relatively easy to reach certain SPL but HD800 needs some harmonic distortions from tube amps to sound musical.

I've read this in a few places, which makes me wonder why they're compared to some real low end cans out there. This is due to pricing i guess since the 880s are relatively cheap. There are many credible folks who have stated the 600ohm anyway with a decent amp/dac combo can have a punchout with the hd800, and like you, taking the 880.
 
But i have never heard a hd800 to compare. Hope to once!

 

[bladefd]

Hey guys, thinking of getting something different from DT880. Any suggestions? Someone here might have some ideas so I thought I would ask here too - I will link to the thread I made earlier today for more details on what I'm looking for

http://www.head-fi.org/t/837075/direct-upgrade-from-dt880

Unfortunately, the usual suspects HD650/800 are out of my budget =[

 

[xinghui0711]

I've read this in a few places, which makes me wonder why they're compared to some real low end cans out there. This is due to pricing i guess since the 880s are relatively cheap. There are many credible folks who have stated the 600ohm anyway with a decent amp/dac combo can have a punchout with the hd800, and like you, taking the 880.

But i have never heard a hd800 to compare. Hope to once!

DT880 was Beyer's flagship headphones for a long time IIRC for a reason. The FR of both headphones are also share similarities:
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID%5B0%5D=2321&graphID%5B1%5D=963&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

What really separate these two headphones are probably the technical aspects. HD800 has a ridiculous large soundstage that expands wide and far unlike traditional headphones. It was the best headphones I could buy under reasonable price back then( SR-009 setups were outrageously expensive).

 

[LaCuffia]

​What would you say the competitors are for the DT880, and what are they for the DT1990 ?  Its hard to know where they are placed.  Also, on a percentage improvement (IE how much better), how would you quantify the all round improvement the DT1990 represents over the DT880 ?  Is there any way to score them perhaps ?

Just my opinion- if you didn't like the Amiron you probably won't like the DT880. The Amiron is better in every way but I like the DT880 a lot too. It's also $400 cheaper and a great value.

To get the best out of the DT880, you need a dedicated headphone amp though. It has less sensitivity than the DT1990 and harder to drive.

 

[CBonUK]

Just my opinion- if you didn't like the Amiron you probably won't like the DT880. The Amiron is better in every way but I like the DT880 a lot too. It's also $400 cheaper and a great value.

To get the best out of the DT880, you need a dedicated headphone amp though. It has less sensitivity than the DT1990 and harder to drive.

 
 
I would hope the media unit's amp I have (MCR610) is sufficient.  Beyerdynamic have told me "when driving 250 ohms headphones properly, a power of 30 mW or a voltage of 2.7 V or higher is recommended".  Marantz informs me that my unit has "5,5 volts at 210 ohms internal measured at no load (without the signal being distorted). This gives 144 mW maximum output power" which is significantly more at 210 ohms than is required at 250 (I would not buy the 600ohms set which I realise would need a headphone amp, as that would defeat the purpose of buying cheaper headphones, when I could get the DT1990s instead, or even the Amirons come to that, assuming any replacement did not have the build fault mine had).  I believe the mathematical relationship here is linear so I would expect my unit can drive the DT880s more than adequately.  Certainly beyerdynamic and Marantz both seem to think so.

​Is it the norm that people buy these expensive headphones to use in conjunction with portable devices like mobile phones and tablets, or do most people on here run them on decent quality home systems ?  I'm asking that partly because of your caveat (thank you for pointing that out just in case), and partly because I see a lot of reference to headphones amps, and oftentimes where the equipment used should (mathematically at least) not require amplification.  I am lucky enough to own a Dell XPS15 top spec laptop, (its nothing special, but nothing like a cheap £300 laptop Id hope) and even that powered both the Amiron's and DT1990's very well.  (Although I did do my testing on the Marantz media unit of course).

 

[i luvmusic 2]

 If i only discovered the Vintage receiver speaker taps for my DT880 600R earlier i would never bought most of my headphone amps and other headphones that i have,that could have save me $$$$ of my hard earned $.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

It has been a long time since I demoed the HD 800 and I am far removed from anywhere that has them or the T1 out for demoing. If I like the sound of Beyerdynamic DT 880-600s, would the T1 or the HD 800 be a decent jump in performance for things like details and soundstage? I am looking at the headphone I would use as a reference model for a review site I am launching and I am trying to figure out if either would be worth the jump. I like the DT 880-600's more than anything else I have owned thus far in those two areas especially as well as overall. However, my memory is somewhat hazy about the HD 800 though I did like what I heard when I demoed them two summers ago--very difficult. In addition, I have looked everywhere when I have been on vacation or driving around and I have yet to find a place with the T1 on display for demoing. A few people state the T1 is a downgrade from the DT 880 in that it is a bit bright and scratchy up top compared to its predecessor.  Still, I personally liked the DT 990-600's which many have said are more bright than the T1. So perhaps if the T1 were a fusing of the DT 880 and DT 990 while erring more towards the DT 880 in sound profile while being more refined than either, I might really like it.  @Skylab said some good things about it, calling the T1 "undoubtedly, a phenomenal headphone, and an enormous step forward from the DT880." He also raved about the Denons which I thoroughly enjoyed and were no bum steer in any sense, so I am thinking T1's might be nice upgrade and a perfect fit as a reference pair. Thoughts?

 

[Me x3]

  It has been a long time since I demoed the HD 800 and I am far removed from anywhere that has them or the T1 out for demoing. If I like the sound of Beyerdynamic DT 880-600s, would the T1 or the HD 800 be a decent jump in performance for things like details and soundstage? I am looking at the headphone I would use as a reference model for a review site I am launching and I am trying to figure out if either would be worth the jump. I like the DT 880-600's more than anything else I have owned thus far in those two areas especially as well as overall. However, my memory is somewhat hazy about the HD 800 though I did like what I heard when I demoed them two summers ago--very difficult. In addition, I have looked everywhere when I have been on vacation or driving around and I have yet to find a place with the T1 on display for demoing. A few people state the T1 is a downgrade from the DT 880 in that it is a bit bright and scratchy up top compared to its predecessor.  Still, I personally liked the DT 990-600's which many have said are more bright than the T1. So perhaps if the T1 were a fusing of the DT 880 and DT 990 while erring more towards the DT 880 in sound profile while being more refined than either, I might really like it.  @Skylab said some good things about it, calling the T1 "undoubtedly, a phenomenal headphone, and an enormous step forward from the DT880." He also raved about the Denons which I thoroughly enjoyed and were no bum steer in any sense, so I am thinking T1's might be nice upgrade and a perfect fit as a reference pair. Thoughts?

Well, Tesla T1.1 is DT880-like in terms of soundstage although significantly improved in terms of layering and focus. The soundstage is rounded, not very intimate like HD600 and not distant like HD800. Tesla T1 is slightly warmer than DT880 and some pairs are tuned similar to AKG K7-series in the upper midrange, giving vocals a more upfront presentation without sounding nasal (like some of the K7-series). Overall the Tesla T1.1 is more organic sounding than the DT880 and technically superior across the board. An important difference to keep in mind is that the T1 is a little bit more laid back than DT880 which appears as more energetic especially around the 6kHz region.
 
HD800 is similar to DT880 Pro in terms of sound signature, it's quite dry and clinical with slightly recessed upper midrange and great extension at both ends of the spectrum. Soundstage is very different from DT880, HD800's soundstage is very wide and the ring radiators project bigger and more distant objects. Transparency and precision across the spectrum is top notch.
HD800 is a technical monster but you have to trade the warmer and more organic sound of the T1.
 
Both are a step above the DT880, but your preferences and desired use play a big role when deciding which one to pick. Tesla T1 is a more powerful tool than DT880, but it's also tuned towards musicality and that's why is so highly regarded as an all rounder among reference headphones. HD800 on the other hand is more of a dedicated precision tool (less bass, drier mids, more treble, wider stage) but it won't convey musicality with a wide range of recordings.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

 
Well, Tesla T1.1 is DT880-like in terms of soundstage although significantly improved in terms of layering and focus. The soundstage is rounded, not very intimate like HD600 and not distant like HD800. Tesla T1 is slightly warmer than DT880 and some pairs are tuned similar to AKG K7-series in the upper midrange, giving vocals a more upfront presentation without sounding nasal (like some of the K7-series). Overall the Tesla T1.1 is more organic sounding than the DT880 and technically superior across the board. An important difference to keep in mind is that the T1 is a little bit more laid back than DT880 which appears as more energetic especially around the 6kHz region.
 
HD800 is similar to DT880 Pro in terms of sound signature, it's quite dry and clinical with slightly recessed upper midrange and great extension at both ends of the spectrum. Soundstage is very different from DT880, HD800's soundstage is very wide and the ring radiators project bigger and more distant objects. Transparency and precision across the spectrum is top notch.
HD800 is a technical monster but you have to trade the warmer and more organic sound of the T1.
 
Both are a step above the DT880, but your preferences and desired use play a big role when deciding which one to pick. Tesla T1 is a more powerful tool than DT880, but it's also tuned towards musicality and that's why is so highly regarded as an all rounder among reference headphones. HD800 on the other hand is more of a dedicated precision tool (less bass, drier mids, more treble, wider stage) but it won't convey musicality with a wide range of recordings.

Thank you. Here are some follow-up questions. My reviews will be directed more towards the general population and not necessarily enthusiasts. If I were to present both of these two headphones, the T1 1st Gen and HD 800, to an average person, which one would they typically prefer over the other and why? The musicality, naturalness and versatility of the T1 or the wider soundstage, frequency extension and detail retrieval of the HD 800? In your experience, have you ever had the chance to share these headphones with non-enthusiasts and which one did they most often ultimately prefer?

 

[Me x3]

  Thank you. Here are some follow-up questions. My reviews will be directed more towards the general population and not necessarily enthusiasts. If I were to present both of these two headphones, the T1 1st Gen and HD 800, to an average person, which one would they typically prefer over the other and why? The musicality, naturalness and versatility of the T1 or the wider soundstage, frequency extension and detail retrieval of the HD 800? In your experience, have you ever had the chance to share these headphones with non-enthusiasts and which one did they most often ultimately prefer?

In my experience the general population tend to prefer darker and warmer headphones like the Sennheiser HD650 or the Focal Elear.
For many reasons:
 
- They don't know what soundstage is so they don't pay much (or any) attention to positioning cues/space/air and those audiophilist stuff we are very used to.
- They prefer soft treble because they often listen to less than ideal recordings + less than ideal file formats + less than ideal transcodes and,
- Because they normally listen to music at slightly louder levels than most experienced audiophiles that know extended loud levels ruin the hobby in the long run.
- They also enjoy some boost in the bass, probably to compensate for the lack of energy hitting their bodies (vs standing in front of big speakers or a live venue)
 
Between HD800 and T1 it's kind of a mixed bag, mainly because (despite them being clearly different for us audiophiles/critical listeners) both are very similar to the general public. Both very detailed and open, both a tad light in the bass and both a tad bright/sharp.

 

[CBonUK]

 
In my experience the general population tend to prefer darker and warmer headphones like the Sennheiser HD650 or the Focal Elear.
For many reasons:
 
- They don't know what soundstage is so they don't pay much (or any) attention to positioning cues/space/air and those audiophilist stuff we are very used to.
- They prefer soft treble because they often listen to less than ideal recordings + less than ideal file formats + less than ideal transcodes and,
- Because they normally listen to music at slightly louder levels than most experienced audiophiles that know extended loud levels ruin the hobby in the long run.
- They also enjoy some boost in the bass, probably to compensate for the lack of energy hitting their bodies (vs standing in front of big speakers or a live venue)
 
Between HD800 and T1 it's kind of a mixed bag, mainly because (despite them being clearly different for us audiophiles/critical listeners) both are very similar to the general public. Both very detailed and open, both a tad light in the bass and both a tad bright/sharp.

 
I'm amazed to read this.  I would have considered myself part of the "general population" until I started researching headphones.  Surely most people who are interested enough to spend more than £50-100 on a bog standard pair of headphones from somewhere like Argos (UK) or Walmart (USA), will also do a certain amount of research ?  Would that new found knowledge not upgrade them to enthusiast at least, if not audiophile ?  Thus making them aware of the phenomenon mentioned above and making their choice more informed ?

​If they listen to less than ideal recordings and poor quality file formats, surely they would not even consider headphones such as the HD800 or T1's as these would just make poor recordings sound worse ?

​Why do non audiophiles listen to music louder ?  DO they ?  Where does this come from; is it assumption ?  And your bass boost comment... where on earth does that come from ?  Do you mean to say that most of the general population all stand in front of their living room loudspeakers or go to live gigs all the time with the stereo blasting at them full on ?  That's a little odd to be honest.

 

[funkisound]

Well some of his points are true, but it's all personal in the end. I tihnk everyone likes to listen to their favorite music at louder listening levels once in a while at least, but yeah I wouldn't do that all the time. But there's "audiophiles" who like some extra bass too, or smoother treble, there's not like a general rule for that I think, everyone has different tastes.