The Beyerdynamic DT48 Arrives...

[Uncle Erik]

KBI, don't sweat it.  If you had really stepped out of line, you would have gotten a PM.
 
As for the LCD2, I think it is a very good headphone.  I listened to one at CanJam and think that it deserves some hype, and not just from fanboys.  It also got terrific results in Tyll's headphone measuring room.
 
I'm sure I'd enjoy one if I had it, but I don't think it betters the headphones I already have.  I don't know if it would get more headtime than the HD-800, so I don't think it's worth buying for me.  That isn't a knock against the LCD2, though, it just means that I have too much stuff already and don't need another headphone to sit around in a box.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Thank you Erik.. I'm still deciding between the HD800 & LCD2.. The extra 400.00 is killing me though.. I really want the 010, but things would have to happen first.. Then my 'career' on headfi is over..
 
Does this include the DT48? Cause I want a headphone that is technically superior to the DT48.. That's why I have a huge interest in the HD800, 010, 4070...
 
Quote:

KBI, don't sweat it.  If you had really stepped out of line, you would have gotten a PM.
 
As for the LCD2, I think it is a very good headphone.  I listened to one at CanJam and think that it deserves some hype, and not just from fanboys.  It also got terrific results in Tyll's headphone measuring room.
 
I'm sure I'd enjoy one if I had it, but I don't think it betters the headphones I already have.  I don't know if it would get more headtime than the HD-800, so I don't think it's worth buying for me.  That isn't a knock against the LCD2, though, it just means that I have too much stuff already and don't need another headphone to sit around in a box.

 

[lejaz]

FWIR the special edition model (SE) has upgraded circuitry. I haven't found any for sale on ebay though. Does yours have the white lettering or the green? I was under the impression the one with the white lettering is the newer model. But whether it is the SE model or not, I don't know. It's probably worth trying since they go for under $100 second hand. I'll have to search for the specs. The EC/SS and the Schiit Asgard are both designed to handle low impedance headphones, but they are over my budget unfortunately
 
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I don't know of a SE version of the OBH11... Only for the OBH21, and it is beyond your budget. The OBH11 got a new look though in the last years (I have the latest model), but I believe the circuitry has not changed. Not sure though...
 
Mixed reviews probably, because I can't imagine this little amplifier powering high impedance cans (power supply has only 10V swing I believe), but if you only use if with your DT48, it could be a very good option. I like it pretty much with my DT48A. And it is transparent enough to allow you to listen to your source. The result is much better connected to the Lavry than to my M-Audio 192.
 

 

 

[Uncle Erik]

KBI, I chose to stick with the HD-800 even though the LCD2 is a fine headphone. The soundstage, comfort and transparency are excellent. I like the 010 as well, but not as much as the HD-800. Unless AKG releases another earspeaker model, I think I'm done buying headphones, save for a JH13 that I'm planning to buy. I might also go for a new Sennheiser 'stat, since I've heard a few whispers about one. My beef with the 010 is that it's discontinued. If something happens to it, you've lost your investment. This is why the HD-800 gets a lot of use and my OOP headphones only come out for special occasions.

As for wrapping up audio purchases, I'm getting close. I'm waiting for a call back on a four channel amp on Craigslist here. I need another one for my Linkwitz Orion project - it uses eight amplification channels. After that, I'll wrap up my other projects and might start selling off a few things. Might start a small company building tube gear, though, so I can keep building (always fun) and give people access to gear that's only available to DIY'ers at present.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Yeahs.. There's always that problem of buying a discontinued headphone... So, I guess the HD800 are still the ultra hi end headphones to get on my list... I would consider the k1000 but too amp dependant & out of production... With some luck I'll be be coming into some money.. I could live with my V9 plus HD800, but the 822 would be optimal.. I guess a HD800/B22/NUFORCE 83SE would do it for me.. That would be my optimal set up.. & would make me leave this place.. s I feel it's more of a chore then anything else.. Hobby or not.. I know what I want, & not being able to get it right away isn't fun..

 

[shamu144]

Excellent points Roger. My reflections got inspired indeed from the LCD2 thread, but rather regarding the accurate treble response or what should be considered accurate.
 
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And since bass is felt and heard, and subbass actually is more felt than heard, if the hp's don't compensate for those factors you end up with an antinatural experience that is headphone hearing, in which the DT48 might be the best example since it compensates little compared to the rest of the modern industry. 
 

 
You are probably right when you say that the bass experience on the Dt48 requires a serious shift in our mind, which is probably why many people just can't deal with them. It is perfectly justified to require low bass impact from a headphone, but then it is porbably not accurate - in the strict sense of this term - anymore.
 
Quote:

 
I been saying this forever.. The reason for the 'lack of bass, no emphasize in the bass notes.. You have headfiers who think they are so smart & know what to listen to in sound & what sound is suppose to sound like, but the DT48 has them fooled & running in circles.. The Check mate moment came when Drosera pointed out that there is more treble in the DT48 then live non amped instruments.. So people who claim they have no treble, is wrong again..

 
I have been said that the FR response of a headphone do not change with the volume, so we should assume this FR response is valid at 70dB as well... Please correct me if this was wrong. What is different at lower volume is the sensitivity of our ears to different frequency response (Fletcher Munson). This is why I always recommend to listen to the DT48 at realistic levels, where our ears are more sensitive to bass response...
 
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I haven't. There is only the 110 db graph (which doesn't say how it sounds at lower volumes) and a freefield response graph at some unspecified volume.

 

[shamu144]

My model is that one, and I don't think it is a SE edition, just a relook of the old OBH11.
 


 
Quote:

FWIR the special edition model (SE) has upgraded circuitry. I haven't found any for sale on ebay though. Does yours have the white lettering or the green? I was under the impression the one with the white lettering is the newer model. But whether it is the SE model or not, I don't know. It's probably worth trying since they go for under $100 second hand. I'll have to search for the specs. The EC/SS and the Schiit Asgard are both designed to handle low impedance headphones, but they are over my budget unfortunately
 

 

[ElephantTLK]

I have question. Would be DT48e 25ohm good with Zoom H4? For recording outside... What i am not sure is specs for H4 headphone out. Headphones Output: 1/8" stereo phone jack (Output level: 50mW into 32Ω load)... Would be still good enough for DT48e?

 

[lejaz]

@Shamu144 - thanks for clarifying this for me. That's the one that goes for under $100 on ebay. Would be worth a try if it would give me better low end than the mkV. Do you find any significant roll off in the bass with that amp...or only when it goes below 60hz, like others are reporting? Thanks again.

 

[kool bubba ice]

More info on the DT48 from a Beyer Project Manager, a Mr Peter Grooffs.. Projecxt manager for the headzone/headphones/headsets.
 
The driver is actually the same. Aluminum (no foil like most headphones) diaphragm embossed with compressed air instead of a stamp. The magnet is even also a ring (just like the Tesla drivers), no neodymium though. Peter Grooff, Beyer
 
He also states there is no marketing for the DT48 AT ALL. NONE. Professionals already know about the DT48 through various sources, & having a track record of 73 yrs of excellence also helps...
 
Good news.. Due to the increasing popularity of the DT48, Beyer might start to market them in the future.. Please thank MR Grooff if you get the chance..

 

[lejaz]

sources, & having a track record of 73 yrs of excellence also helps...

 
Good news.. Due to the increasing popularity of the DT48, Beyer might start to market them in the future.. Please thank MR Grooff if you get the chance..

I only wish they were LESS popular. Then I wouldn't keep getting outbid on ebay for the vintage ones!

 

[leeperry]

 

 
no neodymium though. [..]
Please thank MR Grooff if you get the chance..

 
Yes, Peter is a endless source of information! Sony are also quite good if you send emails to their Japanese helpdesk(that speaks perfect english).
 
I've got a CD999, that's one of their first shot at 50mm consumer hifi drivers: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://dp.tosp.co.jp/index.php%3Faction%3Dblog_view_entry%26ocd%3Duser%26oid%3D182073%26eno%3D22&ei=qY57TMOJMNKA4Aap6LjHBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCwQ7gEwBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMDR-Cd999%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_ja%26safe%3Doff%26as_qdr%3Dall
 
I've got the oldest version, that has cobalt drivers...nice to see that they quickly went for neoydymium and simply used CD950 drivers, that have Biocellulose diaphrams(like the cd1k/cd3k). The DT48 is ferrite from what Peter told me.
 
BTW, I've modded a T50RP...I'm quite blown away by the SQ! It's truly horrid stock, but modding it pays in cash
 
Its drivers are slow but ortho drivers provide very natural sounding mids, just like their commercial fluff says(page is 404 atm): http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/music_products/rp_head_pop.htm
 
I can fully understand why ppl get nuts about modding it, I feel that the cd3k drivers provide more infos that the human brain can analyze(especially using fast opamps such as LT1363)....this phone doesn't try to impress by being fast, it impresses by sounding natural and non-fatiguing.

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

I have been said that the FR response of a headphone do not change with the volume, so we should assume this FR response is valid at 70dB as well... Please correct me if this was wrong. What is different at lower volume is the sensitivity of our ears to different frequency response (Fletcher Munson). This is why I always recommend to listen to the DT48 at realistic levels, where our ears are more sensitive to bass response...

I don't know, from what I've talked with some people that is not necessarily given, and I have yet to see some measurements to see what is the case. Let me paste a post by kwkarth in the LCD thread: 
 
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
Quote:

A question that has been on my mind lately, if we measured the LCD-2 at other SPL (say 80db or less), would the frequency response curve look, for practical matters, the same or there would be some slight but notable differences? 

 

Actually that question applies to every headphone, I haven't seen measurements of the exact same can at different SPL.

 

 
This is a great question Roger!  What we're talking about here is amplitude linearity.  So, if we plotted the response of a headphone at multiple volume/output levels, would the FR curve at each level look the same?  The best way to know for sure is to make a sweep measurement at say, 10 dB intervals...  One at 50dB, 60dB, 70dB, 80dB, and 90dB.  On a perfect can, the curves should parallel one another with 10dB separation from each other.  You could automate these multiple sweeps, and plot deviation from -10dB at each of multiple frequency points, say, an octave apart, 1/3 octave apart, etc.  At lower volume levels we would begin to pick up noise in the lab, etc.
 
We can get one picture of how it might sound by looking at the waterfall plot.  You should see the decay be even across all frequencies, and rapidly fall off.  That gives you an idea of what "self" noise, or "resonance" the headphone has and how rapidly it decays after the initial impulse.

 
Hopefully when Tyll returns that can be performed... I am hopeful about that.
 
 
BTW shamu, I´ve been curious about something, are you enos in a spanish headphones forum?

 

[kool bubba ice]

I'd give my let nut for that CD900 or that diamond material model used for profesional monitoring.. To me gear gear made strictly for professional use is the best.. CD900ST/4070/DT48/HP1/2/4070. No compromises.. This includes video as well.. You know I'm a DT48 fanboy nut I love Sony headphones as well.. The SA5000 is my 2nd favorite SE open headphone I heard.. K1000 would be tops.. The T50 seems to have very untapped potentional. Should T1 owners be upset that they are paying 1,200 for a headphone wit the same ring design as a headphone made in 1937? Crying or laughing? Ortho's sound very natural to me.. But the only area wher it clearly best Dynamic cans is the effortless way it reproduceds music & the smoothness. I still don't believe otho's are simply better just because they are ortho's.. That's like saying any entry level Ortho can better the R10 or 02..
Quote:

 
 
Yes, Peter is a endless source of information! Sony are also quite good if you send emails to their Japanese helpdesk(that speaks perfect english).
 
I've got a CD999, that's one of their first shot at 50mm consumer hifi drivers: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://dp.tosp.co.jp/index.php%3Faction%3Dblog_view_entry%26ocd%3Duser%26oid%3D182073%26eno%3D22&ei=qY57TMOJMNKA4Aap6LjHBg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCwQ7gEwBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMDR-Cd999%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_ja%26safe%3Doff%26as_qdr%3Dall
 
I've got the oldest version, that has cobalt drivers...nice to see that they quickly went for neoydymium and simply used CD950 drivers, that have Biocellulose diaphrams(like the cd1k/cd3k). The DT48 is ferrite from what Peter told me.
 
BTW, I've modded a T50RP...I'm quite blown away by the SQ! It's truly horrid stock, but modding it pays in cash
 
Its drivers are slow but ortho drivers provide very natural sounding mids, just like their commercial fluff says(page is 404 atm): http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/music_products/rp_head_pop.htm
 
I can fully understand why ppl get nuts about modding it, I feel that the cd3k drivers provide more infos that the human brain can analyze(especially using fast opamps such as LT1363)....this phone doesn't try to impress by being fast, it impresses by sounding natural and non-fatiguing.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Tyll needs to measure the DT48 & start selling them again..
 
Quote:

I don't know, from what I've talked with some people that is not necessarily given, and I have yet to see some measurements to see what is the case. Let me paste a post by kwkarth in the LCD thread: 
 
 
 
Hopefully when Tyll returns that can be performed... I am hopeful about that.
 
 
BTW shamu, I´ve been curious about something, are you enos in a spanish headphones forum?