The Beyerdynamic DT48 Arrives...

[leeperry]

Yes, I'm really hot for the sa3k + sa5k earpads...that'll be my next purchase. All I care for is very clear trebles and tight/fast/non-bloated bass. I could also use a less colored SS than on the cd3k. The sa3k is single-ended and uses the same drivers as the sa5k, and I've dome some googling its diaphragms seem to be made of an improved Biocellulose...sounds promising
 
There's a guy who says that comfort on the sa3k is even higher than on the F1...tbh I'm quite sure I couldn't stand the DT48 comfort-wise. And the cd900st heastage is amazing because SONY boast about using all their technology in it, but I'm rather dubious about a +70 yo design having such a punctual and natural-sounding headstage.

 

[kool bubba ice]

I was a disbeliever in the DT48 once.. I made assumptions.. This was when I was first into headphones & thought newer meant better like in the computer/TV world.. When I heard of the first headphones ever I thought UGH... They must sound like sxit.. Then I seen one one sale & the seller said it was more detailed then the SA5000 which perked my interest. This was the DT48A, not the E model.
 
Got them.. First listen was What, I spent 278.00 on these cans.. But the general tone reminded me of the K1000.. But they just sounded odd// The rest is history.. Thre DT48a/NAGRA 50's Offer the most accurate & coherent sound stage I ever heard.. For a small SS, the separation of the instruments is truly remarkable & Everything falls into place.. One member went so far as to say the separation best the 701, which dwarfs the DT48 SS. When it comes to the music nothing sticks out.. To me they are the most like like headphones I ever heard, especially the vocals.. But many find life like borining, since it's the norn & they want a better or sureal sound.. Music through these headphones sound like the EQ is turned off.. They sound more flat then the K1000 IMO.
 
These would be a bad fot for you, & would not recommend them them for you.. In general The fit isn't too bad IMO.. But They burned in my ears after two weeks of pain & discomfort with the DT48A & the rubber pads.. They are meant to be more worn for no loger them 15 minutes.. try 2-4 hrs.. My ears were on fire.. But I have a high pain tolerance, & just ignored the pain.. Hell, I had 12 teeth removed in a single setting, & could have went straight to work after.. You have people giving up on the K1000 due to minor discomfort.. Sorry, but that sounds like a wussy to me.. Your ears will adapt, TRUST ME.. Just deal with the discomfort for a while. The K1000 are legendary headphones that better then DT48 as a whole.. Something I don't like to admit, but it's true..
 
I'd just get a used SA5000.. Bass goes very low, is quick, full, nicely textured, which has good (not great impact). Many consider the SA5000 bass to be lean.. I don't see it.. They are the most realistic in terms of drums & the kick drum impact.. Yes, even better then my beloved DT48.. I did a review on them... The F1 are still more comfortable.. They literally feel like a feather is on your head. If you want extremely clear treble, tight/fast bass & less colored SS.. The SA5000 will give you those in spades..
 
PS: Off topic. This site is BS.. My posted was deleted in the LCD2 appreciation thread. I just asked if they are as good as people say they are or just put on a pedestal due to planar fan boys.. I really wanted to know cause I'm interested i getting one.. Seriously, this site is becoming Stalin like where you can't even ask a question where someone might see it as criticism. I been here since 06, spent a large part of time on this site, & this is how I get treated.. Not even a PM as to why.. My post was valid.. I never seen a headphone so hyped on this site, & if you question it, you get flamed, banned, or post deleted.. I'm very upset at Headfi right now.. This was the the place I used to love, where freedom of speech was valued.. Odd.. No one deletes threads of people 'criticizing' other headphones, or mods that trolled two of my threads & got them closed.. I might just leave this &&&&&& place.. Members who become mods for suspicious reasons etc.. Imagine if someone called the LCD2 the worst headphone ever.. The sky would fall..
 
Quote:

Yes, I'm really hot for the sa3k + sa5k earpads...that'll be my next purchase. All I care for is very clear trebles and tight/fast/non-bloated bass. I could also use a less colored SS than on the cd3k. The sa3k is single-ended and uses the same drivers as the sa5k, and I've dome some googling its diaphragms seem to be made of an improved Biocellulose...sounds promising
 
There's a guy who says that comfort on the sa3k is even higher than on the F1...tbh I'm quite sure I couldn't stand the DT48 comfort-wise. And the cd900st heastage is amazing because SONY boast about using all their technology in it, but I'm rather dubious about a +70 yo design having such a punctual and natural-sounding headstage.

 

[Anaxilus]

Well, your post could be interpreted as an attempt to incite the 'planar fanboys'.  I think it was done to prevent turning it into a flame thread.  I'm sure if you rephrase the question it will be fine.  There has been a lot of flaming and trolling on Head-Fi lately so I think the tolerance of the Mods is really really low atm.  I don't think you should be taking it personally.

 

[lejaz]

KBI, that's crazy about your post getting deleted. Very odd. I guess I better be careful when I criticize the k702...at least in a 70X appreciation thread. I'm honestly a little perplexed about all the love they get, in spite of the fact I find the mids really flawed on my set up. But I will have to shut up about it I guess for fear of starting a flame war. To change the subject: Any other  suggestions on amping the dt48 without spending an arm and a leg? I looked into the Creek OBH11 and it seems the newer OBH11SE(special edition) might be a better option....mixed reviews on the non-SE model.

 

[REB]

I tried my dt48es (25 ohm) straight out of the headphone jack of the living room cdp (philips 9xx, forgot the number, with some modifications) and to my surprise they sounded pretty good. Not as good as they can sound, but much, much better than you would expect. Those old Philips cdp's (this one is from the nineties) were built like tanks and the discrete headphone amp section is nothing to be laughed about.

 

[shamu144]

I don't know of a SE version of the OBH11... Only for the OBH21, and it is beyond your budget. The OBH11 got a new look though in the last years (I have the latest model), but I believe the circuitry has not changed. Not sure though...
 
Mixed reviews probably, because I can't imagine this little amplifier powering high impedance cans (power supply has only 10V swing I believe), but if you only use if with your DT48, it could be a very good option. I like it pretty much with my DT48A. And it is transparent enough to allow you to listen to your source. The result is much better connected to the Lavry than to my M-Audio 192.
 
Quote:

To change the subject: Any other  suggestions on amping the dt48 without spending an arm and a leg? I looked into the Creek OBH11 and it seems the newer OBH11SE(special edition) might be a better option....mixed reviews on the non-SE model.

 

[mobbaddict]

Quote:

I tried my dt48es (25 ohm) straight out of the headphone jack of the living room cdp (philips 9xx, forgot the number, with some modifications) and to my surprise they sounded pretty good. Not as good as they can sound, but much, much better than you would expect. Those old Philips cdp's (this one is from the nineties) were built like tanks and the discrete headphone amp section is nothing to be laughed about.

Thanks for the input, i have a Philips 722 from the 90's as well. Did it sound better than the Fuze?

 

[REB]

It did and noticeably so. The Fuze (much as I love it) was not designed to drive hard-to-drive phones such as the dt48.

 

[mobbaddict]

Thanks REB, that's good news.

 

[shamu144]

Thinking of bass response with the DT48, lot's has been written and said on its controversial aspect. However, measurements - at least the DT48A FR charts - show that the bass response of the headphone extends flat at least to 30Hz. Why is that we perceive them as "bass light" and that even for some, they have no bass at all ? Of course leaving aside amping issues....
 
Is it because the DT48 will not emphasize bass notes to compensate for the lack of visceral impact on our body? But is that a flaw or rather an accurate way to represent the bass as our ears and only our ears perceive them ?
 
Many manufacturer (at least Headroom states so) have choosen to slightly boost the bass response to make their headphones more enjoyeables. Fine. But aren't we distorting the overall bass response this way ?
 
Interestingly, it is said that our brain is able to reconstruct the fundamental note of an instrument even if you can't actually hear it in a headphone, thanks to the harmonic's pattern of that sound (I have never studied psychoacustic, but I read this funny article from writter Al Fasoldt, and dealing with bass response in headphones: http://www.technofileonline.com/texts/earstricks.htm). But increasing the bass response in a headphone will most probably have a detrimental effect on those harmonic pattern's or even fundamentals and hence, distort the accurate reconstruction of the bass note in other headphones, leading to a bass response louder than in real life ?
 
What do you think ?
 

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

Thinking of bass response with the DT48, lot's has been written and said on its controversial aspect. However, measurements - at least the DT48A FR charts - show that the bass response of the headphone extends flat at least to 30Hz. Why is that we perceive them as "bass light" and that even for some, they have no bass at all ? Of course leaving aside amping issues....
 
Is it because the DT48 will not emphasize bass notes to compensate for the lack of visceral impact on our body? But is that a flaw or rather an accurate way to represent the bass as our ears and only our ears perceive them ?
 
Many manufacturer (at least Headroom states so) have choosen to slightly boost the bass response to make their headphones more enjoyeables. Fine. But aren't we distorting the overall bass response this way ?
 
Interestingly, it is said that our brain is able to reconstruct the fundamental note of an instrument even if you can't actually hear it in a headphone, thanks to the harmonic's pattern of that sound (I have never studied psychoacustic, but I read this funny article from writter Al Fasoldt, and dealing with bass response in headphones: http://www.technofileonline.com/texts/earstricks.htm). But increasing the bass response in a headphone will most probably have a detrimental effect on those harmonic pattern's or even fundamentals and hence, distort the accurate reconstruction of the bass note in other headphones, leading to a bass response louder than in real life ?
 
What do you think ?
 

Very interesting point, with curious timing due to a recent discussion that came up in the LCD-2 thread which was whether there is a correlation between ear canal size and bass sensitivity. First the bass hearing experience involves the full body, in a way it can be seen as the contributions of body(head,torso,bones,etc)+pinna+ear cannal (although not necessarily only those elements), and the lower you go the bigger the contribution of the body is to the system in relation to the rest. 
 
So your brain uses input influenced by the whole system (body+pinna+canal) to interpret the sound experience, so when you remove the body from the experience, things get a little wonky since its not like there is a switch in your brain to tell it that you are removing the body from the equation, so it keeps compensating the inputs as if the body was perceiving bass. And since bass is felt and heard, and subbass actually is more felt than heard, if the hp's don't compensate for those factors you end up with an antinatural experience that is headphone hearing, in which the DT48 might be the best example since it compensates little compared to the rest of the modern industry. 
 
The whole thing started from an hypothesis that people with smaller ear canals might be more sensitive to bass, but in the whole bass and sub bass body+pinna+canal experience the difference of the canal size might contribute little, but removing the body makes the contribution of the ear canal a lot more important, and so the different size of individuals influences the experience more, so that could help explain why some people for example hear HD800 level bass realistic, others think its anemic, and others believe it is subwoofer accentuated bass level, which could apply to a lot of cans actually, 48 included.
 
Now what you say is what I believe makes headphone frequency tuning more like art than engineering, since you want to compensate the bass aspects, but in the midrange and treble frequencies the experience happens differently, so you end up with the many equalizations that manufacturers seem to seek (Senn ideal seems to be somewhere between HE90/HD800/HD600, Audez'e's is the LCD-2, AKG seems to be somewhere between K501/K1000, etc) so that they recreate a natural hearing experience through an unnatural medium like headphones. In other words accentuate bass without affecting the balance, timbre, etc.
 
At least my opinion.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Well, I been here for 4 yrs, with 8,000 post.. I don't incite anything.. I'm generally well liked & help out a lot of members. I get game & DT48 pms about 50 plus times a yr. I just don't sugar coat things.. I never seen a headphone where you can't even say anything that some might find offensive & be 'corrected' for it. I'm just looking for fair play.. No special treatment. I mean, Buggalug walks in here, trolls, & his post remains? I'm sure if a member post.. Yeah, the DT48 sounds like dog Sxit, & only a moron would listen to it, would get no reaction from the mods.. Try saying that about the LCD2.. The sad thing is.. I'm sure the LCD2 is as good as people say they are.. The hype seems real.. But being overly sensitive to criticism doesn't help & gives the false image, that headfi is playing favorites.. That is never a good thing... Anyway. I said my peace. I insulted no one individually... I said something in the heat in of anger which I apologize for.. Head fi doesn't suck. If it did I wouldn't be here.. No offense Jude.
 
Quote:

Well, your post could be interpreted as an attempt to incite the 'planar fanboys'.  I think it was done to prevent turning it into a flame thread.  I'm sure if you rephrase the question it will be fine.  There has been a lot of flaming and trolling on Head-Fi lately so I think the tolerance of the Mods is really really low atm.  I don't think you should be taking it personally.

That is odd.. The DT48a bass always sounded anemic to me in general, but better impact in the low end when I got them recabled. But some songs bring out the bass, so I know the DT48a is at least capable of deep bass.. Maybe N3rdling should be reading this. No, I'm not dogging him.. It might give him a understanding to why he feels there is no bass definition.
 
I been saying this forever.. The reason for the 'lack of bass, no emphasize in the bass notes.. You have headfiers who think they are so smart & know what to listen to in sound & what sound is suppose to sound like, but the DT48 has them fooled & running in circles.. The Check mate moment came when Drosera pointed out that there is more treble in the DT48 then live non amped instruments.. So people who claim they have no treble, is wrong again.. I love a lot of treble so IMO they are treble light from my perspective, but again, I like over done, & un realistic levels of treble. About headroom, I asked if they would be carrying the DT48.. I got no response for the first time ever.. I guess they answered my question..
Quote:

Thinking of bass response with the DT48, lot's has been written and said on its controversial aspect. However, measurements - at least the DT48A FR charts - show that the bass response of the headphone extends flat at least to 30Hz. Why is that we perceive them as "bass light" and that even for some, they have no bass at all ? Of course leaving aside amping issues....
 
Is it because the DT48 will not emphasize bass notes to compensate for the lack of visceral impact on our body? But is that a flaw or rather an accurate way to represent the bass as our ears and only our ears perceive them ?
 
Many manufacturer (at least Headroom states so) have choosen to slightly boost the bass response to make their headphones more enjoyeables. Fine. But aren't we distorting the overall bass response this way ?
 
Interestingly, it is said that our brain is able to reconstruct the fundamental note of an instrument even if you can't actually hear it in a headphone, thanks to the harmonic's pattern of that sound (I have never studied psychoacustic, but I read this funny article from writter Al Fasoldt, and dealing with bass response in headphones: http://www.technofileonline.com/texts/earstricks.htm). But increasing the bass response in a headphone will most probably have a detrimental effect on those harmonic pattern's or even fundamentals and hence, distort the accurate reconstruction of the bass note in other headphones, leading to a bass response louder than in real life ?
 
What do you think ?
 

Check your PM. You will like it.
Quote:

KBI, that's crazy about your post getting deleted. Very odd. I guess I better be careful when I criticize the k702...at least in a 70X appreciation thread. I'm honestly a little perplexed about all the love they get, in spite of the fact I find the mids really flawed on my set up. But I will have to shut up about it I guess for fear of starting a flame war. To change the subject: Any other  suggestions on amping the dt48 without spending an arm and a leg? I looked into the Creek OBH11 and it seems the newer OBH11SE(special edition) might be a better option....mixed reviews on the non-SE model.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

If you look carefully, the measurement is made at 110 db. I guess it is a lot louder than most people actually listen at. Lower volumes often means less bass / more curved response. ( I do not know if it is true also for the DT48. But why not?)
( graph is here: http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki//index.php?title=Beyerdynamic_DT-48 )
Freefield response measurements show a dramatc roll-off. Maybe they were made at more reasonable levels.
 
Quote:

Thinking of bass response with the DT48, lot's has been written and said on its controversial aspect. However, measurements - at least the DT48A FR charts - show that the bass response of the headphone extends flat at least to 30Hz. Why is that we perceive them as "bass light" and that even for some, they have no bass at all ? Of course leaving aside amping issues....
 

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

If you look carefully, the measurement is made at 110 db. I guess it is a lot louder than most people actually listen at. Lower volumes often means less bass / more curved response. ( I do not know if it is true also for the DT48. But why not?)
( graph is here: http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki//index.php?title=Beyerdynamic_DT-48 )
Freefield response measurements show a dramatc roll-off. Maybe they were made at more reasonable levels.
 

Where have you seen measurements for the same can at different levels? I've looked for them with no luck so far.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

I haven't. There is only the 110 db graph (which doesn't say how it sounds at lower volumes) and a freefield response graph at some unspecified volume.
 
Quote:

Where have you seen measurements for the same can at different levels? I've looked for them with no luck so far.