[music_4321]

Quote:

Thanks for the response music_4321.
 
Please have a look at koonhua90's post below. Actually what I want to know is how cymbals crashes sound on UM3X. In my opinion koonhua90 describes the cymbals crashes very well. Do you find that cymbals crashes is placed too distant on the UM3X?
 

KLS, that's a tricky question and to a certain extent a matter of individual perception & taste. I think some people will tell you cymbals sound just right on the UM3X, others will say not so good. To these ears and with good recordings cymbals sound more convincing on the UM3X than any other universal I've tried. Only my customs have that little extra edge in that area.

 

[KLS]

 
Quote:

KLS, that's a tricky question and to a certain extent a matter of individual perception & taste. I think some people will tell you cymbals sound just right on the UM3X, others will say not so good. To these ears and with good recordings cymbals sound more convincing on the UM3X than any other universal I've tried. Only my customs have that little extra edge in that area.

 
Thanks for your opinion music_4321. If you remember there is a SM3 vs UM3X thread where almost eveybody 'worships' the SM3 and 'bashed' UM3X to the ground, though there was only a few who listened or own both SM3 and UM3X. Your description:
Quote:

The UM3X sounds closer to the SM3, but the SM3 is the UM3X but with a veil (or blanket) over it. The whole sound presentation sounds muffled.

 makes me wonder if you are a fanbird of UM3X. Just joking
 
In my opinion the SM3 (as well as any other IEMs or headphones) has undergone the 'Introduction to Head-Fi', 'Raising of Popularity', 'Climax' (or FOTM), and now turning into a it's-another-top-tier-of-different-flavour. However this doesn't mean everything about SM3 was a hype, because to my ears they are good.
 
Unless I try the UM3X, SM3 vs UM3X still remain mysterious to me.

 

[Bennyboy71]

Quote:

 
 
Thanks for your opinion music_4321. If you remember there is a SM3 vs UM3X thread where almost eveybody 'worships' the SM3 and 'bashed' UM3X to the ground, though there was only a few who listened or own both SM3 and UM3X. Your description:
 makes me wonder if you are a fanbird of UM3X. Just joking

 
The fact that a flurry of UM3X reviews by Mr Bird have appeared all over the board would probably back up your comment, but hey, I only own the inferior SM3 so can't comment on their veracity.
 
I'd much prefer this thread to remain SM3 focused if possible, but that might require the involvement of other owners out there who are yet to come forward with their frothing fulsome praise for this most superb of iems.
 

 

[music_4321]

 
Quote:

 
Thanks for your opinion music_4321. If you remember there is a SM3 vs UM3X thread where almost eveybody 'worships' the SM3 and 'bashed' UM3X to the ground, though there was only a few who listened or own both SM3 and UM3X. Your description:
 makes me wonder if you are a fanbird of UM3X. Just joking
 
In my opinion the SM3 (as well as any other IEMs or headphones) has undergone the 'Introduction to Head-Fi', 'Raising of Popularity', 'Climax' (or FOTM), and now turning into a it's-another-top-tier-of-different-flavour. However this doesn't mean everything about SM3 was a hype, because to my ears they are good.
 
Unless I try the UM3X, SM3 vs UM3X still remain mysterious to me.

I haven't seen that SM3 vs UM3X thread but I'm not surprised to learn about the UM3X being bashed. There are a few reasons for that, in my view, and not just the FOTM factor but no use going over them here.

You see, I understand where you're coming from with regards to asking lots of questions. I myself didn't ask any but kept a watchful eye on both SM3 & SE535 threads.

It seemed at one point that the SM3 might be it for me. I even thought they might surpass my customs after the views I'd read when it was compared to the UM3X! A similar, though not so blatant, thing was beginning to happen on the SE535 thread. In that case not only the SQ side of things, but the whole redesign of the housing & cable caught my eye.

I knew I had to try them and have them side by side preferably. I spent over $1,000 and knew that I'd be selling 2 of them, losing money in the process, but thought that if I was going to lose money anyway trying one after the other, I might as well do it at the same time and knew, at least, that my brain wouldn't be playing tricks on me. Unfortunately, it's quite true that our memory of events and perceptions is often not what we think it is. If you go without music for a few days and try some Apple earbuds, I can assure you they won't sound as awful as we are so often led to believe by many people in head-fi.

In my case, however, I had my ES3X, which were always close enough to the UM3X, hence the double shock I got after trying the SM3 & SE535. If I was just a fan-boy  - and I know you were only joking -, I would've just gone ahead and purchased the new UM3X, and would have posted a zillion times how these are the best thing since sliced bread.  But, of course all SM3 & SE535 owners would've said "you haven't even heard them", and all the rest of it, which  is true to a certain extent, but...

No, I wanted a very good sounding set of universals to use as backup for my ES3X but that they wouldn't make me think, "God, I can't wait to get home to my customs". Yes, the ES3X beat my UM3X in every way, but not by much, and I'm quite happy with the 'small' difference in SQ and very pleased about the new changes (cable, case, extra tips & packaging).

In the end you yourself may find the UM3X disappointing - I doubt it, though - but at least you found out for yourself.

 

[rrt0000]

I had a listen to a pair of UM3X - I used the bi-flange tips that came with the SM3.
 
I have to say... the SM3 and UM3X sound quite similar... (to me at least). The UM3X do have noticeably brighter treble.
 
To be honest though I would be happy with either of these IEMs.
 
-IF I could change one thing about the UM3X....I would tune down the high end a bit - i found it a bit hard to listen to for longer periods.
-IF I could change one thing about the SM3... I would want a tiny bit more in the treble region. 2 db or so?
 
In terms of fit and finish I prefer the SM3 - the um3x were slightly fatter and didn't feel as comfy in my ear. I also prefer the more tightly braided cable on the SM3 (these were the old um3x so i'm not sure how valid this comment is now).
 
/above comments from a noob so ...

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

I had a listen to a pair of UM3X - I used the bi-flange tips that came with the SM3.
 
I have to say... the SM3 and UM3X sound quite similar... (to me at least). The UM3X do have noticeably brighter treble.
 
To be honest though I would be happy with either of these IEMs.
 
-IF I could change one thing about the UM3X....I would tune down the high end a bit - i found it a bit hard to listen to for longer periods.
-IF I could change one thing about the SM3... I would want a tiny bit more in the treble region. 2 db or so?
 
In terms of fit and finish I prefer the SM3 - the um3x were slightly fatter and didn't feel as comfy in my ear. I also prefer the more tightly braided cable on the SM3 (these were the old um3x so i'm not sure how valid this comment is now).
 
/above comments from a noob so ...

The braiding on the new UM3X cable is identical (not very similar even) to the SM3 cable. And you're right about the older model's cable, it wasn't as good as the current one or the SM3's.

 

[Stan91]

I tried both the SM3 and UM3X..
 
IMHO,
 
Um3x and SM3 sound quite similar to me as well. 
But um3x lacks the bass impact that SM3 provides which makes the overall presentation quite dull and boring, just not my liking. Nevertheless, um3x is still a good iem but i think it's more for studio monitoring.
 
In terms of fit, i would prefer um3x more as it's more comfortable compare to the sm3, maybe it's because of the shape, not so squarish like the sm3.
 
my 2cents.

 

[yello131]

Does anybody here own both SM3 and e-Q7?  I know James444 has them both.
After reading his comparison between 4 top tiers, James44 claims e-Q7 is standing in the same ranking with the SM3. in other words SM3 = e-Q7
Anyone else regards e-q7 is equal to SM3?

 

[violinvirtuoso]

From what I've heard, I think that most people agree they are technically equal. Whether any individual likes one more than the other seems to be a matter of personal taste.

 

[Bennyboy71]

No way in the world are the SM3 and e-Q7 equal.  I have compared both side by side and as good as the e-Q7s are, there's no comparison - the SM3 leaves the Ortos dribbling in the dust.
Quote:

Does anybody here own both SM3 and e-Q7?  I know James444 has them both.
After reading his comparison between 4 top tiers, James44 claims e-Q7 is standing in the same ranking with the SM3. in other words SM3 = e-Q7
Anyone else regards e-q7 is equal to SM3?

 

[iponderous]

 
Quote:

I'll start off saying that if you want to make friends, better not be 100% honest 100% of the time. But since I didn't join head-fi to make friends or improve my social life, I can afford to be...myself.

"Get on with it, what's the screwing verdict?"

The UM3X is the best universal IEM I've ever heard and they give my ES3X a run for their money, pure and simple. So, if you're one of those who disliked or hated the UM3X sound, my advice is to never consider the $850 ES3X, as you'd 'only' be getting a slightly improved version of the UM3X.

OK now, let's get to the boring part of this most long awaited post (and nearly as much as last year's excitement over HeadphoneAddict's 3-way shootout between the ES3X, JH13 & UE11.)

Improvements:

Westone certainly listened to their customers with the new UM3X, and unlike Shure, they made some changes only a year after the original UM3X. Shure, by contrast, took much longer to change their SE530 (3 years, I think).

The # 1 improvement has to be the addition of removable cables, which unlike Ultimate Ears who used a lower quality cable for their Triple.fi 10 & Super.fi 5 to that found on their customs, Westome uses the same 50" braided black cable used in their ES (custom) series.

The Y split, unlike last year's cable which was too close to the chin (just like the SM3s), is just like the customs cables with a very decent distance from the earpieces to the Y split. The difference being about 2" (5cm) longer between the old UM3X (and SM3). Also the ES series cable is more tightly wound than the older UM3X & W3, identical to the SM3.

Now Westone include the same tips that were included with the W3, ie now you get 10 different eartips. Last year's model only  came with Comply tips.

The new Westone case is better than last year's UM3X's and the original W3's case (don't know if it's changed), not only in its shape, but also in the workmanship. Last year's case felt quite cheap by comparison and the W3 was far too soft for such an expensive IEM.

The new UM3X packaging is much smaller and much better designed than last year's very tacky looking packaging. Also, it's more environmentally friendly as it's not 100% plastic like before.

Comfort-wise, the SE535 & UM3X are very, very close, but the swivel mechanism on the 535s just makes the whole inserting process too long and awkward and a little frustrating at times. The indestructible 535 cable remains a bit too stiff for my taste but very nice to look at, and it causes some microphonics, but not a lot. Also, the memory wire on the new UM3X isn't quite as long and bulky as the SE535's - this is a good thing. Both UM3X & SE535 are a little more comfortable than the SM3

The SM3 cable is exactly the same quality as the UM3X, except for the Y split distance to the shells and the obvious removable feature. Apart from that, the rest is identical. I'm sure EarSonics get their cables from Westone or from the same manufacturer.

On the box the SE535s state: "Made in China". The SM3s: "Designed and Made in France". The UM3Xs only: "Assembled in the USA"

The sound:

Seems my memory isn't as bad as I thought. Well, not really. I always remembered quite well how close my UM3X's sounded to my customs, hence the good memory. But I can now confirm that all the comments I've made re SQ comparing the UM3X with the SE535s & SM3s still stand.

The UM3X sounds closer to the SM3, but the SM3 is the UM3X but with a veil (or blanket) over it. The whole sound presentation sounds muffled.

Compared with the SE535s, the UM3X bass has authority, quantity, quality, and impact. The bass on the 535s is too polite. I still find the treble on the 535s a bit too pronounced and 'thinnish' (for lack of a better term). The UM3X treble is not recessed at all, it's just about right, pretty much in between the 535's & SM3s. Mids on all three are excellent, but the SM3 has that veil on all 3 frequencies. The mids are great on the 535s but feel kind of 'naked' or stranded as the bass and treble don't do the 535's mids justice.

Great to confirm again the excellent instrument separation coming from the UM3X, which remains one of it's greatest assets, VERY close to my ES3X - simply incredible!

I don't hear that closed/ boxed-in sound that a handful of people have described.

On the whole the UM3X sound fuller, more convincing, balanced along the whole freq spectrum, neutral and they ARE a joy to listen to. Now I don't feel I'm missing out.

Now I'm not posting just to be contrary. Having had the UM3X, I can honestly say that I was underwhelmed by this phone and preferred the SE530 over it. Although the SE530 is not a favourite of mine either. However, you've had the opportunity to compare the two "it" universal earphones against the UM3X, and still rate its performance more highly overall. Your post is yet another reminder of the subjectivity of the listening experience. Whose ears can we really trust other than our own, when we're trying to make an informed choice about whether an earphone that is garnering as much praise as the SM3 really is deserving of it?
 
The UM3X has been around for a while now and earphone technology is supposed to be improving rapidly, but what is the SM3 offering over the UM3X from a technological perspective? Is it really any more advanced? Does the SE535 contain the kind of technological improvements that we might expect over its three year old predecessor, the SE530? Are we really capable of distinguishing between FOTM hype and genuine improvements in universal earphone technology, that makes for a noticeable improvement in sound quality? How much of this is just snake oil being sold to those who want to believe? Can we trust any descriptions that claim that the SM3 "wipes the floor with the SE530" and "stomps all over the UM3X"? Are the differences in performance between these phones so pronounced?

 

[Bennyboy71]

The SM3 looks like Darth Vader's iem.  That's enough for me.
 
Quote:

 

Now I'm not posting just to be contrary. Having had the UM3X, I can honestly say that I was underwhelmed by this phone and preferred the SE530 over it. Although the SE530 is not a favourite of mine either. However, you've had the opportunity to compare the two "it" universal earphones against the UM3X, and still rate its performance more highly overall. Your post is yet another reminder of the subjectivity of the listening experience. Whose ears can we really trust other than our own, when we're trying to make an informed choice about whether an earphone that is garnering as much praise as the SM3 really is deserving of it?
 
The UM3X has been around for a while now and earphone technology is supposed to be improving rapidly, but what is the SM3 offering over the UM3X from a technological perspective? Is it really any more advanced? Does the SE535 contain the kind of technological improvements that we might expect over its three year old predecessor, the SE530? Are we really capable of distinguishing between FOTM hype and genuine improvements in universal earphone technology, that makes for a noticeable improvement in sound quality? How much of this really is just snake oil being sold to those who want to believe? Can we trust any descriptions that claim that the SM3 "wipes the floor with the SE530" and "stomps all over the UM3X"? Are the differences in performance between these phones really so pronounced?

 

[KLS]

Quote:

 
The fact that a flurry of UM3X reviews by Mr Bird have appeared all over the board would probably back up your comment, but hey, I only own the inferior SM3 so can't comment on their veracity.
 
I'd much prefer this thread to remain SM3 focused if possible, but that might require the involvement of other owners out there who are yet to come forward with their frothing fulsome praise for this most superb of iems.
 

I have no intention to use music_4321's reviews to back up my comment, what I wanted to say regarding SM3 vs UM3X on that particular thread is, even I already owned SM3 that time, in my opinion the poll didn't do justice to UM3X.
 
Sorry I am just curious to know how SM3 compared to UM3X so I shot out a couple of questions. However I find it to be appropriate since this is not only a thread to appreciate, but to discuss things related to SM3 as well. I would like to learn more on how different people think of SM3, rather than praising the SM3 blindly


 
Quote:

I haven't seen that SM3 vs UM3X thread but I'm not surprised to learn about the UM3X being bashed. There are a few reasons for that, in my view, and not just the FOTM factor but no use going over them here.

You see, I understand where you're coming from with regards to asking lots of questions. I myself didn't ask any but kept a watchful eye on both SM3 & SE535 threads.

It seemed at one point that the SM3 might be it for me. I even thought they might surpass my customs after the views I'd read when it was compared to the UM3X! A similar, though not so blatant, thing was beginning to happen on the SE535 thread. In that case not only the SQ side of things, but the whole redesign of the housing & cable caught my eye.

I knew I had to try them and have them side by side preferably. I spent over $1,000 and knew that I'd be selling 2 of them, losing money in the process, but thought that if I was going to lose money anyway trying one after the other, I might as well do it at the same time and knew, at least, that my brain wouldn't be playing tricks on me. Unfortunately, it's quite true that our memory of events and perceptions is often not what we think it is. If you go without music for a few days and try some Apple earbuds, I can assure you they won't sound as awful as we are so often led to believe by many people in head-fi.

In my case, however, I had my ES3X, which were always close enough to the UM3X, hence the double shock I got after trying the SM3 & SE535. If I was just a fan-boy  - and I know you were only joking -, I would've just gone ahead and purchased the new UM3X, and would have posted a zillion times how these are the best thing since sliced bread.  But, of course all SM3 & SE535 owners would've said "you haven't even heard them", and all the rest of it, which  is true to a certain extent, but...

No, I wanted a very good sounding set of universals to use as backup for my ES3X but that they wouldn't make me think, "God, I can't wait to get home to my customs". Yes, the ES3X beat my UM3X in every way, but not by much, and I'm quite happy with the 'small' difference in SQ and very pleased about the new changes (cable, case, extra tips & packaging).

In the end you yourself may find the UM3X disappointing - I doubt it, though - but at least you found out for yourself.

 
I have never wanted to try the UM3X this bad You didn't spend your $1000 for nothing: you found your best IEMs, and your words changed my view towards UM3X. I understand it's all your one-person-opinion, but I trust comment like yours, honest and never exaggerate. Even if I found out that I dislike the UM3X, don't worry I would not blame anybody. 'All comes down to personal preference' is one of the best phrase in Head-Fi ^^
 
I agree with you on the Apple earbuds too.
 
 
 
 
Quote:

I had a listen to a pair of UM3X - I used the bi-flange tips that came with the SM3.
 
I have to say... the SM3 and UM3X sound quite similar... (to me at least). The UM3X do have noticeably brighter treble.
 
To be honest though I would be happy with either of these IEMs.
 
-IF I could change one thing about the UM3X....I would tune down the high end a bit - i found it a bit hard to listen to for longer periods.
-IF I could change one thing about the SM3... I would want a tiny bit more in the treble region. 2 db or so?
 
In terms of fit and finish I prefer the SM3 - the um3x were slightly fatter and didn't feel as comfy in my ear. I also prefer the more tightly braided cable on the SM3 (these were the old um3x so i'm not sure how valid this comment is now).
 
/above comments from a noob so ...

Your comment encourages me to try the UM3X

 
 
Quote:

I tried both the SM3 and UM3X..
 
IMHO,
 
Um3x and SM3 sound quite similar to me as well. 
But um3x lacks the bass impact that SM3 provides which makes the overall presentation quite dull and boring, just not my liking. Nevertheless, um3x is still a good iem but i think it's more for studio monitoring.
 
In terms of fit, i would prefer um3x more as it's more comfortable compare to the sm3, maybe it's because of the shape, not so squarish like the sm3.
 
my 2cents.

Your comment gives me second thoughts on UM3X
 
 
 
I hope I am not messing things here.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Now I'm not posting just to be contrary. Having had the UM3X, I can honestly say that I was underwhelmed by this phone and preferred the SE530 over it. Although the SE530 is not a favourite of mine either. However, you've had the opportunity to compare the two "it" universal earphones against the UM3X, and still rate its performance more highly overall. Your post is yet another reminder of the subjectivity of the listening experience. Whose ears can we really trust other than our own, when we're trying to make an informed choice about whether an earphone that is garnering as much praise as the SM3 really is deserving of it?
 
The UM3X has been around for a while now and earphone technology is supposed to be improving rapidly, but what is the SM3 offering over the UM3X from a technological perspective? Is it really any more advanced? Does the SE535 contain the kind of technological improvements that we might expect over its three year old predecessor, the SE530? Are we really capable of distinguishing between FOTM hype and genuine improvements in universal earphone technology, that makes for a noticeable improvement in sound quality? How much of this is just snake oil being sold to those who want to believe? Can we trust any descriptions that claim that the SM3 "wipes the floor with the SE530" and "stomps all over the UM3X"? Are the differences in performance between these phones so pronounced?

 
I don't see why you had the need to quote my post.  You could have expressed the very same views without quoting me.
 
Unlike many other "reminders of the subjectivity of the listening experience", I had the opportunity to test 4 IEMs simultaneously (ES3X, UM3X, SE535 & SM3) and not in a shop for just a few minutes. I did notice significant differences at times, so much so that I was shocked a few times as I expected differences but not so significant. That, of course, does not translate as music_4321's views are the new truth/ gospel -- "Everybody sell your IEMs, your house, your wife & children. Follow me and get the UM3X!"
 
Sound signature preferences do exist but the difference in "performance" between these IEMs are not always as small you seem to suggest.

 

[iponderous]

 
Quote:

I don't see why you had the need to quote my post.  You could have expressed the very same views without quoting me.
 
Unlike many other "reminders of the subjectivity of the listening experience", I had the opportunity to test 4 IEMs simultaneously (ES3X, UM3X, SE535 & SM3) and not in a shop for just a few minutes. I did notice significant differences at times, so much so that I was shocked a few times as I expected differences but not so significant. That, of course, does not translate as music_4321's views are the new truth/ gospel -- "Everybody sell your IEMs, your house, your wife & children. Follow me and get the UM3X!"
 
Sound signature preferences do exist but the difference in "performance" between these IEMs are not always as small you seem to suggest.

 
I quoted your post because it was the catalyst for my own. It's a common practice at Head-Fi and one with which, you are most familiar. I did attempt to include a caveat at the beginning in case you hadn't noticed.
 
And I'm not suggesting anything, I'm merely posing questions. There is a difference.