[KeithPhantom]

There is absolutely no reason to upgrade just for the sake of upgrading. If you can identify some aspect of sound that is lacking, then you can look for something to solve that problem. But if it sounds good to you, there is no reason to buy something more expensive at random in the hopes that because it costs more, it will sound better. Random changes bring random results. Analyzing your sound and identifying problems is the way to improve sound. Very few audiophiles seem to realize that. They get sucked into consumerism and mistakenly correlate sound fidelity and price. Price, sound quality and musical quality are three completely separate things. If you want to understand them, you have to learn the terminology and how each of the aspects you are considering works.

This is gospel and perfectly explains why I am not an audiophile (they usually do not take measurements in consideration too).

 

[Bozzunter]

And as I already explained, it sounds like your friend was boosting largely inaudible sub bass frequencies to the point of causing the bass to distort and clip. EQ is a tool you have to learn how to use. It isn't intuitive and you can make mistakes very easily. But if you use it well, it can make a set of midrange cans sound very, very close to high end ones. I have PM-1s and I have no doubt that I could take a set of HD-650s and make them sound almost identical.

I want to reply also to another post where you talked about EQ. See, like you say almost no one knows how to use it, myself included.

Let’s leave alone the fact that EQ is a blasphemy for a “real audiophile”, I am well past that. Let’s also leave alone the fact that my knowledge is nil: I could find several EQ settings to be used in order to make my Focal Elegia sound well (its mids are insufferable to my ears).

The issue, in my case, is the convenience that’s often mentioned in this forum when talking about DAPs. Sure, you have your collection of music and there are plenty of options. But what about streaming, and specifically, streaming through Spotify? There was a time where I used to swear Tidal sounded better, now I believe it’s placebo and little else. I have my 7 year listening history in Spotify, 500 artists I am notified of when they release something, etc... And in Spotify you can NOT have parametric equalizer. I tried suggested configurations for fixed band equalizers and nothing come close to what I get with a parametric equalizer.

So, back to square one, I’d rather use headphones which do NOT need an equalizer to sound good. Sennheiser HD800s? Hell yeah. Audeze Sine (purchased at $220 second hand), perfect as well. The rest of my options is painfully uncomfortable, so much as I have to use a DAP. Because let’s talk about parametric equalizer on an iPhone. There you cannot stream anything, there is no USB Audio Player.

 

[bigshot]

That certainly is a drawback to streaming. Right now, I only use EQ on my speaker system. I got headphones that I'm happy with without EQ. That may be your only option.

 

[James-uk]

That certainly is a drawback to streaming. Right now, I only use EQ on my speaker system. I got headphones that I'm happy with without EQ. That may be your only option.

Out of interest, which headphones do you use? And does their frequency response come close to your EQ’d speaker system?

 

[bigshot]

Oppo PM-1. They come as close to balanced as headphones can get for my particular target curve. The only thing missing is sub bass (naturally) and the upper mids are boosted about 2dB- that’s close enough for government work.

 

[KeithPhantom]

which headphones do you use?

I use my LCD-2 more than my other headphones, I just like that they improve over the HD 6X0 family (except the weight). But if there is a better headphone improving the HD 6X0 family, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[Bozzunter]

As I previously said, the Sennheiser HD6x0 is mentioned a lot but in my opinion it’s by far the ‘less good’ (I’d say the worst) of my small collection.

You said that the 800s are too bright and you have the 800 anyway. I’d be really curious to see how big is the difference between them, but I’m unlikely to have the chance.

Please try the Audeze Sine. They’re a bargain, they have a lightning cable for direct connection to iPhones and 10 band equalization (not for you) and the normal audio cable is also perfect. No equalization needed at all, sorry not to use the usual flurry of useless terms like more spacious, detailed, etc but HD6x0 are absolutely no match to them. Someone claims they have a substantial clamping force but I find this BS. Besides, there are pads in the aftermarket which can be to everyone’s taste, and if you can live with LCD-2, I guess you could also be punched on your face while listening and you wouldn’t care.

I’d be very hard pressed to find headphones with a better price/quality ratio. There’s also the open version but I never tried it, although I’d buy it in a heartbeat if I found them in Europe.

 

[Blackwoof]

I want to reply also to another post where you talked about EQ. See, like you say almost no one knows how to use it, myself included.

Let’s leave alone the fact that EQ is a blasphemy for a “real audiophile”, I am well past that. Let’s also leave alone the fact that my knowledge is nil: I could find several EQ settings to be used in order to make my Focal Elegia sound well (its mids are insufferable to my ears).

The issue, in my case, is the convenience that’s often mentioned in this forum when talking about DAPs. Sure, you have your collection of music and there are plenty of options. But what about streaming, and specifically, streaming through Spotify? There was a time where I used to swear Tidal sounded better, now I believe it’s placebo and little else. I have my 7 year listening history in Spotify, 500 artists I am notified of when they release something, etc... And in Spotify you can NOT have parametric equalizer. I tried suggested configurations for fixed band equalizers and nothing come close to what I get with a parametric equalizer.

So, back to square one, I’d rather use headphones which do NOT need an equalizer to sound good. Sennheiser HD800s? Hell yeah. Audeze Sine (purchased at $220 second hand), perfect as well. The rest of my options is painfully uncomfortable, so much as I have to use a DAP. Because let’s talk about parametric equalizer on an iPhone. There you cannot stream anything, there is no USB Audio Player.

Or buy Win 10 tablet with APO installed, Use BT dac for to power any $220+ headphone?. If only microsoft suppourted 64bit Arm CPU's on phones.

 

[Bozzunter]

Or buy Win 10 tablet with APO installed, Use BT dac for to power any $220+ headphone?. If only microsoft suppourted 64bit Arm CPU's on phones.

Well in this case a DAP is surely more practical, considering that I would also use an iPad

 

[KeithPhantom]

You said that the 800s are too bright and you have the 800 anyway. I’d be really curious to see how big is the difference between them, but I’m unlikely to have the chance.

With EQ they are great, but they feel like you're sitting 20 seats away from the musicians. The directionality and separation are exaggerated for my liking (my LCD-2 do that in a more natural way). FR, they are great with my EQ preset, but my problem is moving my EQ between devices (some of my sources don't support EQ).

Please try the Audeze Sine. They’re a bargain, they have a lightning cable for direct connection to iPhones and 10 band equalization (not for you) and the normal audio cable is also perfect. No equalization needed at all, sorry not to use the usual flurry of useless terms like more spacious, detailed, etc but HD6x0 are absolutely no match to them. Someone claims they have a substantial clamping force but I find this BS. Besides, there are pads in the aftermarket which can be to everyone’s taste, and if you can live with LCD-2, I guess you could also be punched on your face while listening and you wouldn’t care.

I'll see if I can try them. I use my LCD-2 when laying in my bed with some neck support, so they're not an issue. But if I try to sit down without the support, my neck starts complaining.

 

[Blackwoof]

Well in this case a DAP is surely more practical, considering that I would also use an iPad

Well their Rockbox's PEQ and the newer Fiio DAP's can use neturon wich also has PEQ, Totally forgot about that.

 

[Bozzunter]

Well their Rockbox's PEQ and the newer Fiio DAP's can use neturon wich also has PEQ, Totally forgot about that.

But Neutron doesn’t have streaming so, for me, back to square one.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Is there any audible SQ difference when passing data with bluetooth or cables ? I've just received portable bluetooth dac/amp and honestly if I'm matching it against my wired S1 without any EQ filters I can't tell any difference between them from any of my HP. I'm not even using their highest bluetooth LDAC codec as I'm stuck with iphone and AAC.

 

[Bytor123]

Is there any audible SQ difference when passing data with bluetooth or cables ? I've just received portable bluetooth dac/amp and honestly if I'm matching it against my wired S1 without any EQ filters I can't tell any difference between them from any of my HP. I'm not even using their highest bluetooth LDAC codec as I'm stuck with iphone and AAC.

I'm 56, so my ears will certainly not be the best, but I can't tell any difference at all. Which is great!

 

[hakunamakaka]

I'm 56, so my ears will certainly not be the best, but I can't tell any difference at all. Which is great!

Honestly I've spent all day trying to spot the difference and couldn't. Seems that soon cables will be the thing of the past and needed only if additional amping is required. I was so skeptical with all that bluetooth SQ while passing the data, but now I don't see any reason to go back to cabled source. If i've got that device earlier much of the money would have been saved :/