[bufferoverflow]

 This kind of nonsense is definitely harmful, but not in that way.

It is also harmful in the way I wrote .
Bandwidth isn't free and I'm pretty certain most people here know there are close to zero free lunch-meals in this World .
Somebody is going to pay that extra bill .. Anyone who wants to guess who ??

 

[maverickronin]

  Nonetheless, the cost for storage are 4 times as high, as are the bandwidth-costs .
Imagine a top-10 hit that sells in the millions - well, You do the math ...

 
If high res download ever do become that popular then that certainly will make a significant overall impact on internet infrastructure but I don't really see that happening.  It's just the latest snake oil marketed to a niche enthusiast community and I think it's likely to stay that way.
 
Average people never seem to get worked up about audio so nobody is going to deploy this kind of thing on such a massive scale that it will cause a dramatic cost increase because they will have to pass that on to the consumer who won't understand it, won't care about it, and thus won't pay for it.  The average itunes user just isn't going to care.
 
I'd be more worried about 4k video causing that kind of problem.  It's not completely useless like high res audio since there's at least a visible difference if you sit close enough to your TV.  Of course few people actually do, but that doesn't stop the public lapping up the latest advance in video marketing like they always do.
 

  It is also harmful in the way I wrote .
Bandwidth isn't free and I'm pretty certain most people here know there are close to zero free lunch-meals in this World .
Somebody is going to pay that extra bill .. Anyone who wants to guess who ??

 
It is a problem, but for the reasons I outlined above I believe it's a comparatively small one.

 

[cel4145]

It is also harmful in the way I wrote .
Bandwidth isn't free

As pointed out, the difference in cost is a mere pennies at most. For example, the web hosting company I use for some smaller websites costs about $1 per 20 GB of bandwidth. No doubt there are much better deals to be had than that.

 

[bufferoverflow]

As pointed out, the difference in cost is a mere pennies at most. For example, the web hosting company I use for some smaller websites costs about $1 per 20 GB of bandwidth. No doubt there are much better deals to be had than that.

How many albums is 20GB in 24/196 audio ??
Also, you need to take into account that a professional commercial outfit will want close to 100% up-time
and disk-storage is in reality at least double .
Again, You do the math for a top-10 selling album ....
 
EDIT :
I agree that "high-res" video is more likely to become "a hit" and therefore also a bandwidth-problem .
But it DOES look better under the right conditions . 24/196 audio doesn't,generally, sound any better than redbook .

 

[dprimary]

  I have checked regarding that 113 dB readig with the friend in question. The app used was https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bti.soundMeter
I am awaiting his reply regarding the accuracy of that meter - against his Conrad SPL meter (nothing special, but solid and good value) . Will report what his reply would be - but the reading on the IIRC Samsung Galaxy 6? REALLY did show 113 dB. Could be error/fluke - will report ASAP.
 
But, without a doubt, it was LOUD. Much above say some Brahms and similar - Prokofiev and other Russians are known for that.
 
 
 

There is not currently any android app that could be considered a valid measurement. ​There is very high chance the microphone and preamp was clipping. At most you can use it for a relative measurement between two things done in the same time period. SPL is an absolute measurement.  
There is too many variables on the platform, some phones do SRC without your knowledge. What filters on the microphone is there auto gain, noise processing and more? The latency can vary from 50 to 400 ms
Google till version 5 did not have good real time scheduling which measurements tend to need. I have heard they have reduced the OS latency to 20ms still over 10 times too high but getting closer. By version 6 or 7 they should have it worked out.
 
I have no idea if the hardware latency is being reduced and if can ever be consistent. 
 
There is a few useful ones on iOS platform, apple has also added a measurement mode function in the OS which allow the app to stop any conversation and processing that could corrupt the measurements. If you compare them the android apps you will understand how far the platform is behind in measurement.
 
http://www.studiosixdigital.com is way ahead of everyone. Andrew Smith's old company, before he sold it, made hardware based audio test equipment. He also sells calibrated microphones and preamps. Depending on the microphones you can certify the system as a type1 or 2. A full system can get pricey, but a bargain compared to other older systems.
 
http://www.faberacoustical.com is a viable solution but you are on you own for the microphones and preamps.
 
On any os I would not trust the microphones built into a phone, even when they start out close they vary wildly as the microphone get contaminated. At best it is holding your finger in the wind to decide the direction and speed.
 
Even with calibrated microphone, I don't complete trust a measurement unless the system was checked with a microphone calibrator just before the measurement are made.
 
Measurements have to be repeatable. When I see one that doesn't seem right I measure it again. If it doesn't repeat, it might have been an error.

 

[analogsurviver]

  There is not currently any android app that could be considered a valid measurement. ​There is very high chance the microphone and preamp was clipping. At most you can use it for a relative measurement between two things done in the same time period. SPL is an absolute measurement.  
There is too many variables on the platform, some phones do SRC without your knowledge. What filters on the microphone is there auto gain, noise processing and more? The latency can vary from 50 to 400 ms
Google till version 5 did not have good real time scheduling which measurements tend to need. I have heard they have reduced the OS latency to 20ms still over 10 times too high but getting closer. By version 6 or 7 they should have it worked out.
 
I have no idea if the hardware latency is being reduced and if can ever be consistent. 
 
There is a few useful ones on iOS platform, apple has also added a measurement mode function in the OS which allow the app to stop any conversation and processing that could corrupt the measurements. If you compare them the android apps you will understand how far the platform is behind in measurement.
 
http://www.studiosixdigital.com is way ahead of everyone. Andrew Smith's old company, before he sold it, made hardware based audio test equipment. He also sells calibrated microphones and preamps. Depending on the microphones you can certify the system as a type1 or 2. A full system can get pricey, but a bargain compared to other older systems.
 
http://www.faberacoustical.com is a viable solution but you are on you own for the microphones and preamps.
 
On any os I would not trust the microphones built into a phone, even when they start out close they vary wildly as the microphone get contaminated. At best it is holding your finger in the wind to decide the direction and speed.
 
Even with calibrated microphone, I don't complete trust a measurement unless the system was checked with a microphone calibrator just before the measurement are made.
 
Measurements have to be repeatable. When I see one that doesn't seem right I measure it again. If it doesn't repeat, it might have been an error.

I am still awaiting response from a friend. Since everything he uses proved so far as reliable, I took it for granted also in this case.
 
Thank you for the links. Not now, other priorities - and not interested in precise noise measurements anyway. 
Music - and musicians - are NOT repeatable in loudness. 10 years of experience in the field - best you can expect from them is 2 dB precision. And this tolerance is enough - I do not care if it is 106 or 108 dB, as long as it does not overtax the equipment capability (gain settings etc).
 
I will have to buy a reasonable SPL meter. Not B&K level, but also not the cheapest China toy. Something you can bring to a concert and not arouse suspicion with. Someone might mistake it for the recorder and then you can end up in trouble.

 

[cel4145]

How many albums is 20GB in 24/196 audio ??

You made the claim about bandwidth usage. You tell me what you are thinking.

Also, you need to take into account that a professional commercial outfit will want close to 100% up-time
and disk-storage is in reality at least double .

Your claim was about bandwidth usage costs. These are different cost elements.

Again, You do the math for a top-10 selling album ....

Your claim. You do the math. Cost pennies based on the figure I gave you, a tiny fraction of the cost of the music to consumers, and that's based on a cheap reseller hosting account from a good hosting company for generalized website usage. Someone with higher bandwidth requirements, like a music download company, would likely be able to find a web hosting package that is tailored to better suits their specific needs for more download bandwidth.

 

[analogsurviver]

 
How many albums is 20GB in 24/196 audio ??
Also, you need to take into account that a professional commercial outfit will want close to 100% up-time
and disk-storage is in reality at least double .
Again, You do the math for a top-10 selling album ....
 
EDIT :
I agree that "high-res" video is more likely to become "a hit" and therefore also a bandwidth-problem .
But it DOES look better under the right conditions . 24/196 audio doesn't,generally, sound any better than redbook .

2 GB in 196/24 means 25 minutes of audio, 20 GB = 250 minutes = approx 4 "average" albums.
 
DSD64 = 1 GB = 22 minutes audio
 
DSD128 =1 GB = 11 minutes audio
 
Above are not correct to the last second, but will serve to get a general idea.

 

[MacacoDoSom]

  2 GB in 196/24 means 25 minutes of audio, 20 GB = 250 minutes = approx 4 "average" albums.
 
DSD64 = 1 GB = 22 minutes audio
 
DSD128 =1 GB = 11 minutes audio
 
Above are not correct to the last second, but will serve to get a general idea.

...but not in FLAC...

 

[RRod]

Oh ***, we're talking about audio-streaming bandwidth now?

 

[lamode]

 
How many albums is 20GB in 24/196 audio ??
Also, you need to take into account that a professional commercial outfit will want close to 100% up-time
and disk-storage is in reality at least double .
Again, You do the math for a top-10 selling album ....

 
You are really clutching at straws...
 
The cost of HD storage per GB is now around $0.02, and an album needs to be stored only once (slightly more than once in a RAID setup but close enough).
Storage costs are completely insignificant here.
 
The first company I found charges $0.12 per outgoing GB. For a 24/192 album like Michael Jackson's "Thriller", for example, that is 1.65 GB (FLAC), or $0.20 per upload. A 24/96 version would be $0.10. That is not even 1% of the product price. Also insignificant. And I'm sure I could find a better deal if I shopped around.
 
And your million-copy-selling example is irrelevant. Sell a million copies, even at 24/192 at $20 a copy and you have revenue of $20m and upload costs of only $200,000. Explain to us again how the upload costs make this impossible!?

 

[lamode]

  There is not currently any android app that could be considered a valid measurement. ​There is very high chance the microphone and preamp was clipping. At most you can use it for a relative measurement between two things done in the same time period. SPL is an absolute measurement...

 
All of the apps I could find said the readings were limited to 100dB or less due to hardware limitations of various smartphones. But analoguesurvivor already knows this - I informed him in the other thread.

 

[analogsurviver]

 
...but not in FLAC...

Gee, FLAC or no FLAC, it IS one hell of a lot more than MP3s...
 
Furthermore, FLAC applies to PCM, not DSD (at least as far I know ) . DSD downloads usually require unzipping - but is still much larger file than CD redbook.
 
Please do not turn this into "my car can run for XY miles on one thimble of petrol" - or " my car can accelerate to such and such speed in so and so time - who-cares-for-consumption" pi**ing match. 
 
Those interested can find exact figures online - whether they seem reasonable under given conditions is up to each individual to decide. There certainly are corners of the world that do not support hirez over internet - yet. And IPs can have one hell of a lot different pricing - so whatever might hold true in USA will not hold true in Europe, which is much more heterogene territory - not to talk about Africa. There are lot of places where the internet is NOT unlimited in bandwidth/data transfer.
20 GB or four ( or six in FLAC, give or take a song or two ) albums in 192/24 may be someone's monthly "package" - with quite a steep charge after exceeding that limit. Or having internet speed reduced to snail speed for the rest of the month.

 

[lamode]

  Gee, FLAC or no FLAC, it IS one hell of a lot more than MP3s...

 
... and as I posted above (with actual figures) the cost is still irrelevant. The actual premium you would have to charge for 24/192 over MP3 to cover upload bandwidth would be an extra 1%

 

[Head Injury]

  Gee, FLAC or no FLAC, it IS one hell of a lot more than MP3s...
 
Furthermore, FLAC applies to PCM, not DSD (at least as far I know ) . DSD downloads usually require unzipping - but is still much larger file than CD redbook.
 
Please do not turn this into "my car can run for XY miles on one thimble of petrol" - or " my car can accelerate to such and such speed in so and so time - who-cares-for-consumption" pi**ing match. 
 
Those interested can find exact figures online - whether they seem reasonable under given conditions is up to each individual to decide. There certainly are corners of the world that do not support hirez over internet - yet. And IPs can have one hell of a lot different pricing - so whatever might hold true in USA will not hold true in Europe, which is much more heterogene territory - not to talk about Africa. There are lot of places where the internet is NOT unlimited in bandwidth/data transfer.
20 GB or four ( or six in FLAC, give or take a song or two ) albums in 192/24 may be someone's monthly "package" - with quite a steep charge after exceeding that limit. Or having internet speed reduced to snail speed for the rest of the month.

The discussion is on cost to the supplier vs. markup, not on inconvenience to the consumer. I think we all agree hi-rez is considerably less convenient for the consumer in both storage space and bandwidth.