[jcx]

some do attempt to control the early near wall relfection with good directivity control of the speaker, for an example: Geddes waveguide speakers designed for 90 degree pattern with 45 degree toe-in

 

[jaddie]

Quote:

some do attempt to control the early near wall relfection with good directivity control of the speaker, for an example: Geddes waveguide speakers designed for 90 degree pattern with 45 degree toe-in

...and THX Ultra2 Certified speakers have controlled vertical directivity to reduce the intensity of reflections off ceilings and floors for this reason also.  Not a substitute for acoustic treatment, but sometimes you just can't. 

 

[bigshot]

My room is all panelled in knotty pine with a high beam ceiling. No way I'm going to put acoustic panels on that. I made do with helpful placement of large couches and rugs, and a sound absorbing taxidermied Marlin on the wall!
 
Seriously though, the pine panelling is super soft and doesn't bounce much sound. The room has a concrete slab floor and I stood in the middle before I moved any furniture or rugs in and did the "clap test" and it was amazing how little reflection there was.

 

[jaddie]

I'll bet your marlin is more of the diffusion species than absorption species, at least at the high end.  The semi-cylindrial diffusional marlin is fairly common in temperate waters.  The fully absorptive marlin has been on the endangered species list for a while, and if you have one mounted in your home your zealous California Fish and Game Police will bust you for sure.

 

[Mezzo]

So my brother in law did some testing of amps. Integra 30.4 vs Yamaha A-820 vs 4 year old Yamaha receiver. He has got 2x Vatrios mono block ( i think they fong kong amps ) i cant find info on the net about them. They are connected to the pre outs of his Yamaha ( 4 yrs old not sure of model number )
Its ok, but at high volume ( this is his normal listening level +- -5db ) its a bit bright.

So we took the integra he was offered and hooked it up. Needless to say it was so bright the tweeters stopped working on his Jamo C605's in half a song

We then brought in a old school kenwood KMX100 power amp. I cannot believe how warm and smooth this amp is, I was expecting it to be bright as its old and its not parasound or nad . Just shows you name brand isnt always the way to look at things.

Any ways to try get rid of the brightness we gave the integra another shot on the warmer Kenwood power amp. The results were day and night, it was alot warmer than those fong kong things he has, but still a little bright for me.
Next was the old Yamaha with the Kenwood, It blew the integra out of the water, so much warmer and gentle on the ears.
The next test was my Yamaha A820 with the same kenwood amp......all i can say was WOW it sounded amazing, it out played the older Yamaha and the Integra didnt even stand a close chance.

All tests were done using the same speakers ( Jamo C605 ), Samsung Bluray hooked up via HDMI, same speaker cables and same interconnects all test were done with the same song aswell.

Note all these tests were done just on the audio section, we didnt play with bells and whistles, all tests were done with multiple dsp settings, pure direct, 2ch stereo with sub and 7ch stereo ( he loves 7ch no idea why )

Anything inherently wrong with this test?

 

[bigshot]

When you compare using DSP settings, everything is different. You're hearing differences in DSPs, not the amp itself. You should only compare straight output with no tone controls, no DSP, no EQ, nothing... and the volume level should be consistent and level matched carefully. If you can set up a direct switcher, that's best.

Your results aren't surprising, because newer Yamahas have the best DSPs.

 

[Mezzo]

Quote:

When you compare using DSP settings, everything is different. You're hearing differences in DSPs, not the amp itself. You should only compare straight output with no tone controls, no DSP, no EQ, nothing...

 
He said he compared using pure direct, stereo and 7ch stereo for all three.

 

[bigshot]

He said he used three DSP settings, including pure direct. That just confuses the comparisons. The best way to do it is to line up the amps, set them flat / pure direct, go through one by one in passes trying to balance the output level to a normal listening volume, THEN do the comparisons with as short a time between listening samples as possible. A switch box would be ideal.
 
The problem with comparing anything is that auditory memory is VERY short... only a few seconds. The more time between samples, the more apt expectation bias and sheer randomness is going to affect it. It is impossible to listen to three different DSPs on each amp, and then try to compare them to three DSPs on another amp. Compare one thing at a time.

 

[jaddie]

Quote:

So my brother in law did some testing of amps. Integra 30.4 vs Yamaha A-820 vs 4 year old Yamaha receiver. He has got 2x Vatrios mono block ( i think they fong kong amps ) i cant find info on the net about them. They are connected to the pre outs of his Yamaha ( 4 yrs old not sure of model number )
Its ok, but at high volume ( this is his normal listening level +- -5db ) its a bit bright.

So we took the integra he was offered and hooked it up. Needless to say it was so bright the tweeters stopped working on his Jamo C605's in half a song

We then brought in a old school kenwood KMX100 power amp. I cannot believe how warm and smooth this amp is, I was expecting it to be bright as its old and its not parasound or nad . Just shows you name brand isnt always the way to look at things.

Any ways to try get rid of the brightness we gave the integra another shot on the warmer Kenwood power amp. The results were day and night, it was alot warmer than those fong kong things he has, but still a little bright for me.
Next was the old Yamaha with the Kenwood, It blew the integra out of the water, so much warmer and gentle on the ears.
The next test was my Yamaha A820 with the same kenwood amp......all i can say was WOW it sounded amazing, it out played the older Yamaha and the Integra didnt even stand a close chance.

All tests were done using the same speakers ( Jamo C605 ), Samsung Bluray hooked up via HDMI, same speaker cables and same interconnects all test were done with the same song aswell.

Note all these tests were done just on the audio section, we didnt play with bells and whistles, all tests were done with multiple dsp settings, pure direct, 2ch stereo with sub and 7ch stereo ( he loves 7ch no idea why )

Anything inherently wrong with this test?

Precision level match?
Compare using only pure-direct (+1 bigshot)
Make sure all tone controls and, room cal and DSP are bypassed - pure-direct should do this, you have to be absolutely certain.
Rapid switch comparison (requires switching hardware, but necessary if trying to make a direct comparison)?
 
Blind/Double Blind? (Of course not, but that's the only way you can really tell that a difference exists).
 
What does this mean: Needless to say it was so bright the tweeters stopped working on his Jamo C605's in half a song"?

 

[Jammin72]

Quote:

I'll bet your marlin is more of the diffusion species than absorption species, at least at the high end.  The semi-cylindrial diffusional marlin is fairly common in temperate waters.  The fully absorptive marlin has been on the endangered species list for a while, and if you have one mounted in your home your zealous California Fish and Game Police will bust you for sure.

 
 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Three more tests added to the OP.
 
Still waiting for a positive ABX test of cables, still finding speakers make the biggest difference.

 

[367459]

Quote:

Three more tests added to the OP.
 
Still waiting for a positive ABX test of cables, still finding speakers make the biggest difference.

 
Nice work Prog Rock Man! You're building quite the body of knowledge.
Has the cartridge demagnetizer been covered in this thread? What do the myth-busters say?  http://hifishack.com/audiophysic.php

 

[brunk]

 

[bigshot]

I really don't doubt people can hear a difference between Frauenhofer 320 and Frauenhofer 128. Try AAC 320 against lossless, and if you can come up with a consistently accurate choice, I will be very impressed.

 

[brunk]

Quote:

I really don't doubt people can hear a difference between Frauenhofer 320 and Frauenhofer 128. Try AAC 320 against lossless, and if you can come up with a consistently accurate choice, I will be very impressed.

If you have it available, send it to me I'm not even on my "big rig". I'm just listening with a Beyer T1 out of the Yulong DA8 internal amp.