[Eddy Flycatcher]

.

 

[electropop]

Hah, that must've been done with undercooked SRH840s.. But no, I don't criticize your opinion, I just wished for a more explicit comment, that's all, because I obviously think the complete opposite. Or maybe I'm just deaf. Is that what you wished for me to admit?

Instead of being in the defensive mode, you should switch to the constructive mode. Now that I meant as a small piece of critique. That graph was a start, maybe I should take the HD25s again and have a listen with them. Whatever that chart indicates, however, doesn't change the fact that fully cooked srh840s out of a proper source and amp are less provocative (this is why some might like the hd25s more actually), more detailed (in terms of sheer instrument separation and layering as well as pitch accuracy), smoother (no, not fluffy, but goes along with "less provocative" and you can discern drumming methods of different jazz drummers, for instance, as which part of the cymbal he/she's hitting..), and thus better at playing music closer to as it should be heard... I guess I have to say "IMO" and render my all posts as purely subjective rant, although I wouldn't want to

 

[TomvanHalen]

Right, I've finally read through the whole thread O.o I ordered my 840s from iheadphones for the bargain christmas price of £119, so am rather excited. Will be running them straight out of my 5.5g iPod for now, but plan to amp them, so my question is this:
Which cheap(ish) amp will run them better? I'm considering the Mini3, PA2v2 and the LDM+, though I don't know how hard/expensive it'll be to import the latter two.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomvanHalen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right, I've finally read through the whole thread O.o I ordered my 840s from iheadphones for the bargain christmas price of £119, so am rather excited. Will be running them straight out of my 5.5g iPod for now, but plan to amp them, so my question is this: Which cheap(ish) amp will run them better? I'm considering the Mini3, PA2v2 and the LDM+, though I don't know how hard/expensive it'll be to import the latter two.

I don't think that you really need an amp with them. The next step would be to improve your source and swap the iPod to a better portable device, such as HM-801 or AMP3..

You would not be improving the "sound quality" per se, but rather throwing in something to alter the frequency response, a bit, and even that is marginal.

This is from what I've listened to them with variable sources, including two long term sets (160gb classic with GS Voyager and the HM-801).

 

[TomvanHalen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by electropop /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think that you really need an amp with them. The next step would be to improve your source and swap the iPod to a better portable device, such as HM-801 or AMP3.. You would not be improving the "sound quality" per se, but rather throwing in something to alter the frequency response, a bit, and even that is marginal. This is from what I've listened to them with variable sources, including two long term sets (160gb classic with GS Voyager and the HM-801).

The AMP3 looks interesting, but it doesn't look like I could even get one in England. Not to mention my chronic lack of cash, as lovely as the HM-801 sounds.

I'm quite of the belief that (after doing my research) the iPod's sound chip is the bee's knees, it's just the amplification that's lacking. Which seems about right, I'm happy with the overall sound signature, it's just somewhat anaemic, especially compared to my sadly kaput CD walkman. I plan to run it out the line out vith the volume set at 100%. All I want the amp to do is drive the headphones better, so it can power the low range properly while leaving the mids and highs relatively uncoloured. Lots of people in the thread seem to believe a bit of amping opens the 840s up nicely, just hadn't seen anything regarding those amps within my grasp.

I notice some improvement with my E2Cs just using a FiiO E3, gives it some of the impact I lost going from a more powerful source, but of course it muddies the whole range slightly.

I hear the 160GB iPod is somewhat inferior to the older 5 and 5.5 generation video, so that might be part of your dislike of it.

 

[vkvedam]

840s are great when driven by D10 out of 5.5G iPod, atleast to my ears.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomvanHalen /img/forum/go_quote.gif The AMP3 looks interesting, but it doesn't look like I could even get one in England. Not to mention my chronic lack of cash, as lovely as the HM-801 sounds. I'm quite of the belief that (after doing my research) the iPod's sound chip is the bee's knees, it's just the amplification that's lacking. Which seems about right, I'm happy with the overall sound signature, it's just somewhat anaemic, especially compared to my sadly kaput CD walkman. I plan to run it out the line out vith the volume set at 100%. All I want the amp to do is drive the headphones better, so it can power the low range properly while leaving the mids and highs relatively uncoloured. Lots of people in the thread seem to believe a bit of amping opens the 840s up nicely, just hadn't seen anything regarding those amps within my grasp. I notice some improvement with my E2Cs just using a FiiO E3, gives it some of the impact I lost going from a more powerful source, but of course it muddies the whole range slightly. I hear the 160GB iPod is somewhat inferior to the older 5 and 5.5 generation video, so that might be part of your dislike of it.

Dunno about the differences of iPods. But if you really get a good amp, the sound is only as good as the stuff the amp is amplifying, which in this case (ipod) is crap

As I said, you can't make a bad source sound good. In my experience, the sound doesn't "open up" when using an amp, if anything. The best quality of using one with an LOD, would be that you skip the iPods digital volume attenuation, which is bad if you listen at lower volumes with good sensitive headphones. That is all.

I have a Sony A8something mp3 player as well and while often regarded as superior to iPods, I actually prefer my classic 160gb. Better pitch accuracy for notes at the loss of a bit clarity.

 

[TomvanHalen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by electropop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dunno about the differences of iPods. But if you really get a good amp, the sound is only as good as the stuff the amp is amplifying, which in this case (ipod) is crap As I said, you can't make a bad source sound good. In my experience, the sound doesn't "open up" when using an amp, if anything. The best quality of using one with an LOD, would be that you skip the iPods digital volume attenuation, which is bad if you listen at lower volumes with good sensitive headphones. That is all. I have a Sony A8something mp3 player as well and while often regarded as superior to iPods, I actually prefer my classic 160gb. Better pitch accuracy for notes at the loss of a bit clarity.

Well the Wolfson DAC seems to be pretty highly regarded and I certainly wouldn't say the iPod is crap, whatever its shortcomings (especially with Rockbox). Whatever the case, it's not going anywhere for the time being so the point is moot.

The fact remains, should I decide to amp it, does anyone have any experience of the potential synergy using either of the three, or one similar? Unfortunately vkvedam, the D10 is a little out of my price range

 

[vkvedam]

In that case until you get an amp do it this way.

Sounds much better compared to the headphone out on the iPod. Just get a dock and an inline volume attenuator from Shure, everything should cost you around £20.

 

[tim3320070]

FYI, J&R will do $149 shipped on these- just bought them. This is a price match from eBay.

 

[bixby]

.... Quote:

Originally Posted by electropop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dunno about the differences of iPods. So why comment here like you do. Try listening to hard drive ipods, shuffles, Nanos, and a few generations before offering an opinion. But if you really get a good amp, the sound is only as good as the stuff the amp is amplifying, which in this case (ipod) is crap Uh, again if you "dunno" about ipods, then you can't really make a comment can you. I have listened to and owned a bunch of ipods and other players and many of the ipods are quite good, others have their faults as well. As I said, you can't make a bad source sound good. In my experience, the sound doesn't "open up" when using an amp, if anything. The best quality of using one with an LOD, would be that you skip the iPods digital volume attenuation, which is bad if you listen at lower volumes with good sensitive headphones. What? You are not correct that you are only skipping a volume control and it's not digital volume, pretty sure the volume on an ipod is in the analog domain. What you are doing with a proper line out dock is skipping the whole amp. So to tell someone thta an amp will not make a difference is ludicrous. I have run ipods with some of the best portable amps available and gotten very good results with home type cans. Not on all of them but some. Remember all of these devices were designed to run much lower current and specific impedances through their HP outs. So don't dismiss what a good amp can do with a very high quality line level out through something like the Shures. I have a Sony A8something mp3 player as well and while often regarded as superior to iPods, I actually prefer my classic 160gb. Better pitch accuracy for notes at the loss of a bit clarity.

 

[Raez]

Northern Sound & Light will do $116 on these.

 

[kayaker3057]

Really?!?! How do I get this deal? And how long will it last? My wife will tolerate these at this price

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomvanHalen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the Wolfson DAC seems to be pretty highly regarded and I certainly wouldn't say the iPod is crap, whatever its shortcomings (especially with Rockbox). Whatever the case, it's not going anywhere for the time being so the point is moot. The fact remains, should I decide to amp it, does anyone have any experience of the potential synergy using either of the three, or one similar? Unfortunately vkvedam, the D10 is a little out of my price range

Well, if you really WANT to spend money in what's maybe a 0,5% improvement (Maybe 5% impact on frequency response) it's your choice. I'm just saying that you should listen before you buy

I don't know which Wolfson DAC it is that the iPod, whichever model we're talking about, utilizes, but Wolfson is not a premise for good sound. I've heard devices using Wolfson for DA circuitry that are bad.

Maybe I should lend some other iPods and try amping them, just for this arguments sake

But with mine or any other, at least when using the GS Voyager, portable player I have, the difference has been marginal and non-existent in SQ itself.

Just saying

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bixby /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....

Oh yes, you do make some good points.

Though to my knowledge, the headphone out of iPods is exactly the same when you are using the line-out (the pins that give you a signal with the volume control disabled), which is what I used for convenience. Impedance issue and power is one thing, as you stated, but I really hear no improvement with the use of LOD over 3,5mm out of the headphone plug (volume max) to an external amp. And using closed "portable" or DJ-phones that are efficient enough, I can't say that I'm hearing much, if any, improvement in the sound-quality per se.
But what you are saying, is that an iPod's volume controls are not based on digital attenuation, but something analogue, like a potentiometer? So using an LOD you skip an OPamp, or what? Point me to a source where I can learn, since I'm not certain of this either.

You're right, I don't have much experience with different iPods. I currently have the 160gb classic (not the very latest one), 40gb ancient one and a shuffle. Maybe I need to dig the others up for some reference..