[Vitaly2017]

What makes you want to say goodbye to it at this time?
And are they silver? I'm looking for pure silver cables for these after discovering that pure copper makes these cans a bit too mellow.

Those are full copper and 1 cable is my friends the mdr-z1r one. Mine is the iem cable. I prefer the stock cable so decided to sell them. They are not bad just for my Tia Noir the stock cable synergize much better. When I bought the pw1960 it was for my tia trio and now I changed for Tia noir and things changed....

 

[phonomat]

Is there any precedent for people who prefer the stock cables over the Kimber cables?

I'm asking because I only used the Kimber cable on the MDR ever since I got it, never touched the stock cable until today, motivated by desiring a bit more sparkle on my treble, which felt a bit too soft on the MDR, especially in contrast to the IER. Sparkle is back with the stock cable, with a bit less bass and overall lushness to the sound as the trade-off. But overall things feel more balanced with the stock to me, against what seems to be the general opinion.

First off, I don't really believe in cables making a perceivable difference, or let's say I have yet to hear it.
BUT if I were to assume that copper would indeed influence the sound signature in a way as to make it warmer and reduce treble energy, well, that would be the last thing I'd want for this particular headphone, as it's already a bit too mellow and relaxed for my taste. Warm + warm does not sound like a great match to me. In fact, I'd like a little more bite to it, but I'll most certainly EQ before I get a pure silver cable for that purpose, lol.
Just my two cents, YMMV and so on.

 

[Umwelt]

First off, I don't really believe in cables making a perceivable difference, or let's say I have yet to hear it.
BUT if I were to assume that copper would indeed influence the sound signature in a way as to make it warmer and reduce treble energy, well, that would be the last thing I'd want for this particular headphone, as it's already a bit too mellow and relaxed for my taste. Warm + warm does not sound like a great match to me. In fact, I'd like a little more bite to it, but I'll most certainly EQ before I get a pure silver cable for that purpose, lol.
Just my two cents, YMMV and so on.

I wasn't much of a believer either but I did some blind swaps and I could tell the difference every time. For analog copper vs silver plated copper seems to make a noticeable difference in this case. I think in my setup it's worse because I use the TA for the Z1R and the TA seems to be a warm amp also, so this is triple warm, I need to change at least one part of the setup for more balance, it seems. The copper cable may work well with another amp, but I like the TA too much so if something has to go it's the cable. That's why I want to try pure silver, even though I could be happy with the stock cable also. I prefer that than to go down the EQ rabbit hole.

 

[candlejack]

I wasn't much of a believer either but I did some blind swaps and I could tell the difference every time. For analog copper vs silver plated copper seems to make a noticeable difference in this case. I think in my setup it's worse because I use the TA for the Z1R and the TA seems to be a warm amp also, so this is triple warm, I need to change at least one part of the setup for more balance, it seems. The copper cable may work well with another amp, but I like the TA too much so if something has to go it's the cable. That's why I want to try pure silver, even though I could be happy with the stock cable also. I prefer that than to go down the EQ rabbit hole.

How many dB's of warmth would you say the copper cable adds compared to the SPC? And why would you prefer cable tuning over EQ tuning, when with EQ you have exact control, while with cables you don't really know what you're going to get, since no one was able to actually measure a difference?

 

[Umwelt]

How many dB's of warmth would you say the copper cable adds compared to the SPC? And why would you prefer cable tuning over EQ tuning, when with EQ you have exact control, while with cables you don't really know what you're going to get, since no one was able to actually measure a difference?

Not sure how to put it in terms of dB difference... but maybe 2-3dB? The emphasis definitely shifts to the lows and mids, which leaves me wanting more when the highs come through. And I think I prefer a cable-based tuning over EQ precisely to have less control. If I get too much control and put it all in my hands, I may never know when to stop
Not even sure if I'll get a silver cable though (probably from aliexpress if I do). For now the stock one feels just about right. I may even swap back to the kimber copper for the right music or mood.

 

[Maelob]

How many dB's of warmth would you say the copper cable adds compared to the SPC? And why would you prefer cable tuning over EQ tuning, when with EQ you have exact control, while with cables you don't really know what you're going to get, since no one was able to actually measure a difference?

Cmon, please lets not continue inciting the whole cable arguments, I am on the same camp as you, but honestly just questioning everytime time somebody have opinions on cables is counter-productive. You probably feel strongly about it, but my advice is just let it go, but it is up to you.

 

[candlejack]

Cmon, please lets not continue inciting the whole cable arguments, I am on the same camp as you, but honestly just questioning everytime time somebody have opinions on cables is counter-productive. You probably feel strongly about it, but my advice is just let it go, but it is up to you.

[sorry, the previous version of this post was the result of a random event across my keyboard]

The point here is that @Umwelt has previously argued (in the context of USB cables) that one shouldn't rely exclusively on one's impressions, especially when there is evidence to the contrary, because of a number of factors which can distort said impressions.

I was just curious to know why he feels differently in the case of Cu vs Ag cables for analogue signals. Because as far as I know, the evidence seems to indicate that any differences generated in frequency response are way below the audible threshold and certainly not 2-3 dB in magnitude.

This is not about being in one camp or another or proving anyone wrong, it's about trying to understand the reasoning of someone.

 

[340519]

So I'm absolutely loving the Z7s I just bought, so naturally being the audio psycho that I am, have to look at the Z1R as my next acquisition. I did not think I'd like the sony signature so much, but the Z7s bass and treble region have just blown me away.

 

[Gamerlingual]

So I'm absolutely loving the Z7s I just bought, so naturally being the audio psycho that I am, have to look at the Z1R as my next acquisition. I did not think I'd like the sony signature so much, but the Z7s bass and treble region have just blown me away.

Careful with the clamping force. I would try them out for a while and make sure they fit comfortably. They sound really good to me, but it’s hard to keep them on at the expense of comfort. The MDR-Z7M2 fit all the check marks for my case. Hope the Z1R does it for you as well

 

[340519]

Careful with the clamping force. I would try them out for a while and make sure they fit comfortably. They sound really good to me, but it’s hard to keep them on at the expense of comfort. The MDR-Z7M2 fit all the check marks for my case. Hope the Z1R does it for you as well

I have the original Z7, which is very comfortable and sounds fantastic, even next to my megabucks cans (see my sig).

 

[Gamerlingual]

I have the original Z7, which is very comfortable and sounds fantastic, even next to my megabucks cans (see my sig).

How’s the Focal Clear? I’m wondering if it can go toe to toe if just barely with the Stellia. The MDR-Z1R has more balanced mid bass and mids than the Stellia, but the Stellia was really good

 

[340519]

How’s the Focal Clear? I’m wondering if it can go toe to toe if just barely with the Stellia. The MDR-Z1R has more balanced mid bass and mids than the Stellia, but the Stellia was really good

I would take the Z7 over the Stellia. I like the Clears but not that much and I'd sell them to get the Z1Rs. I'm considering it. The pads on the clears are horrible.

 

[Umwelt]

The point here is that @Umwelt has previously argued (in the context of USB cables) that one shouldn't rely exclusively on one's impressions, especially when there is evidence to the contrary, because of a number of factors which can distort said impressions.

I was just curious to know why he feels differently in the case of Cu vs Ag cables for analogue signals. Because as far as I know, the evidence seems to indicate that any differences generated in frequency response are way below the audible threshold and certainly not 2-3 dB in magnitude.

Yeah no need to explain, I didn't take your question in any wrong way! I did argue that different USB cables can't really make a difference in sound properties at all (assuming they are of spec), but obviously there's still a lot of passionate discussion about the subject On the other hand, I was under the impression that among audiophile circles it was generally accepted that copper vs. silver produce recognizable differences in output in the context of headphone cables (as well as speaker wires?). But maybe that impression is incorrect. Also, while the theory and science is squarely against the argument of USB cables making a difference for a digital signal, that is not so much the case with copper v. silver in analog signals.

And I'm not against basing impressions, recommendations, and buying choices based on personal and potentially fallible impressions, as long as they are not heavily contradicted by scientific knowledge

Anyway, the 2-3dB difference is just something I pulled out of my ass, I don't think I'm good at gauging dB differences too finely. And for what it's worth, I swapped back to the copper cable again and liked it more again in spite of the warmth trade off, so I can't make up my damn mind! So take these fickle ears of mine with a grain of salt.

 

[candlejack]

Yeah no need to explain, I didn't take your question in any wrong way!

No worries, the explanation was for @Maelob, who, I guess, at this point is sick of hearing me doubt the audible impact of cables (rightfully so).

I did argue that different USB cables can't really make a difference in sound properties at all (assuming they are of spec), but obviously there's still a lot of passionate discussion about the subject On the other hand, I was under the impression that among audiophile circles it was generally accepted that copper vs. silver produce recognizable differences in output in the context of headphone cables (as well as speaker wires?). But maybe that impression is incorrect. Also, while the theory and science is squarely against the argument of USB cables making a difference for a digital signal, that is not so much the case with copper v. silver in analog signals.

You were not incorrect at all: it is almost universally accepted in audiophile circles that, when used in cables, Ag is brighter and Cu is warmer. It's just that I've never seen this opinion substantiated by any proof. I have however seen evidence to the contrary (e.g. the But What If I Can Hear Differences... video in my sig contains a demo).

And I'm not against basing impressions, recommendations, and buying choices based on personal and potentially fallible impressions, as long as they are not heavily contradicted by scientific knowledge

To be honest, the only action in the list I would object to is recommendations, the rest I have no problem with, even when strongly dismissed by science. People can spend their money any way they choose and buying something just for looks or because they think it will sound a certain way, is perfectly fine with me.

Anyway, the 2-3dB difference is just something I pulled out of my ass, I don't think I'm good at gauging dB differences too finely. And for what it's worth, I swapped back to the copper cable again and liked it more again in spite of the warmth trade off, so I can't make up my damn mind! So take these fickle ears of mine with a grain of salt.

Yeah, I figured that. I also have a hard time quantifying different effects. The point of the question was to force you to think about how big the effect is.

 

[phonomat]

I wasn't much of a believer either but I did some blind swaps and I could tell the difference every time. For analog copper vs silver plated copper seems to make a noticeable difference in this case. I think in my setup it's worse because I use the TA for the Z1R and the TA seems to be a warm amp also, so this is triple warm, I need to change at least one part of the setup for more balance, it seems. The copper cable may work well with another amp, but I like the TA too much so if something has to go it's the cable. That's why I want to try pure silver, even though I could be happy with the stock cable also. I prefer that than to go down the EQ rabbit hole.

I hope to one day hear such a difference myself -- or maybe I'm blessed that I can't.