[candlejack]

Do you know the PS Audio channel on youtube? It is really good. He touched this topic on one of thr videos.

Thanks, I'll have a look. But I recognize the guy from a "burnin" video I saw a while ago, in which he didn't seem to know/understand much, so I'm not going in with much faith.

Edit after watching the video: Ok, so there were a couple of interesting things I got from the video (e.g. the definition of amplifier gain) but I don't see how it addresses my question.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Thanks, I'll have a look. But I recognize the guy from a "burnin" video I saw a while ago, in which he didn't seem to know/understand much, so I'm not going in with much faith.

Edit after watching the video: Ok, so there were a couple of interesting things I got from the video (e.g. the definition of amplifier gain) but I don't see how it addresses my question.

He is the owner of PS Audio, one of the most respected minds in audio.
https://www.psaudio.com/

 

[GiullianSN]

Thanks, I'll have a look. But I recognize the guy from a "burnin" video I saw a while ago, in which he didn't seem to know/understand much, so I'm not going in with much faith.

Edit after watching the video: Ok, so there were a couple of interesting things I got from the video (e.g. the definition of amplifier gain) but I don't see how it addresses my question.

I know he didn't answer your specific question, but he touched the topic as I mentioned. He explain a bit what is Gain on an amplifier and the difference to Wattage. A lot of people buys DAPs without even looking at the output power and later don't know why the DAP can't play some heaphones/IEM properly (not saying is your case, please).

So it was just sharing 2cents of knowledge here.

 

[Malevolent]

Hi all,

I finally got my hands on the Z1R. I'll say now that the following comments are my very early and emotional impressions that COULD and likely will change over time. That being said, THESE ARE THE BEST THING I'VE EVER PUT INTO MY EARS!!! I haven't heard everything but you can check my profile to see where I'm coming from.

From memory, the IER-Z1R is superior to the Solaris in every way. The Solaris is excellent and I would've kept it if I didn't have issues with the fit. But Z1R is a clear step up in my opinion. For me the differences are most noticeable in the bass and resolution. The Z1R is the first hybrid or BA implementation that doesn't sound like I'm listening to BAs. Sony is the first to get it right. The overall sound is detailed and immersive. The bass is tad much for my taste but it is nice when it hits.

One thing is clear after a quick A/B comparsion with the LCD-i4, there's a new king! I'm waiting on th OSLO cable to show up. Hopefully, that adds something I didn't even know I wanted haha.

Definitely pleased at the moment.

I couldn't decide between the Solaris and the Z1R; I purchased the former first, but once I listened to the Sony, I couldn't put them down. The bass is superbly addictive. In the end, I got the Z1R as a (really) nice complement to the Solaris. My wife nags at me non-stop, but hey, I'm a happy camper.

 

[candlejack]

EQ and bass boost aside, have you ever done a blindtest or proper volume match? Just curious cause I don't hear these big differences in sources that apparently others do. I hear big difference in my headphones and masters but sources not much.

You are not alone.

Nope... I`m on 110-113 on high gain

YOU'RE ALSO EITHER DEAF OR ON BROKEN GEAR. :-D

 

[candlejack]

The confusing thing about power is it may be the ability in extreme cases to actually get louder. We are not talking about louder here though. As in pretty much every situation the IER-Z1R is always going to get loud enough. My gosh you can’t even go to full 10 on an iPhone without the volume way.....way to high!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor

What we are discussing here is damping factor. Think of it as a larger hand controlling the diaphragm of the driver. There is a bigger force so the diaphragm can actually move in each direction and stop faster. This ability creates better detail and cleaner bass response. The soundstage and imaging get improved as well as what could be described as PR&T.

In this result there can be the feeling of hearing more bass. Though the more whole bass thing is most on full size headphones with better damping factors. The full size may show just a dB of more bass, but due to the soundstage and imaging factors the bass is now clearer and has separation which gives the psychological impression of added bass. Though it can actually sound like less bass too (in some instances) as it’s all about control of the diaphragm.

It’s the damping factor that makes the iPhone, not the best union for the IER-Z1R.

Got it, source output impedance matters because it factors in the damping factor. Probably less so with the Z1r, because of its relatively high impedance, at 40 Ohms, but it matters none the less.

The best way to hear this in practice is use the IER with some low power DAP. An extreme would be the $45 Kogan Chinese DAP. You will notice it’s loud but the low end is foggy and slow. Imaging and soundstage is less; and all this goes on regardless of tone.

Switch to a high power DAP or desktop and it’s the damping factor which is primarily responsible for the improvements.

Did I miss something, how did we get from damping factor to power?

It’s true that it’s the power rating which is one of the main reasons of having certain IEMs gel with certain DAPs. Basically outside of tone synergy an IEM like the IER-Z1R is going to place extremely high power demands on a DAP. This in reality is when you read of people finding the IER-Z1R being too bass heavy. They simply don’t understand they are under-driving it. They can’t believe their system is underpowered in reality. They simply don’t understand the sound of off damping and what the issue sounds like.....so they blame the IEM. This is crazy as they had their dream IEM in their hands, they just didn’t know how to power it right.

It's true that this paragraph cannot get more unsubstantiated than this.

It’s fairly easy to grasp these concepts by trying an IEM on a number of systems. Many sadly don’t have access or don’t understand the concept of damping factor in relation to sound quality. I learned all this by making giant mistakes of mismatching amps and headphones; while later getting the correct amp and understanding the importance of damping factor.

And we're back to damping factor somehow.

He is the owner of PS Audio, one of the most respected minds in audio.
https://www.psaudio.com/

In audio what? Audio hobbyists? This doesn't sound like respect to me.

---

Listen, I don't want to fight. I actually really want to gain some knowledge and understanding. My ears don't hear what other people's ears hear. I don't mind that too much, but I wish I knew why that is.

 

[KPzypher]

Listen, I don't want to fight. I actually really want to gain some knowledge and understanding. My ears don't hear what other people's ears hear. I don't mind that too much, but I wish I knew why that is.

Sadly, too many people in this hobby hold personal opinion in higher regard than objectively demonstrable science.

Not arguing what others hear (i completely respect one's opinion when it stays an opinion), but It frustrates me sometimes when 'some' claim what they hear as undeniable fact, and completely disregard any opposing views, and attribute the lack of discernment to simply having untrained "non-audiophile" ears.

AUDIO BOB: "This uranium dipped cable lased with nano particles and infused with himalayan salt widens the soundstage and makes the kick drum hit two extra times in any songs ......" Me: "sorry I don't hear the difference." AUDIO BOB: "Just be grateful you have untrained "non-audiophile ears."

You know the rest.

 

[518013]

Sadly, too many people in this hobby hold personal opinion in higher regard than objectively demonstrable science.

Not arguing what others hear (i completely respect one's opinion when it stays an opinion), but It frustrates me sometimes when 'some' claim what they hear as undeniable fact, and completely disregard any opposing views, and attribute the lack of discernment to simply having untrained "non-audiophile" ears.

AUDIO BOB: "This uranium dipped cable lased with nano particles and infused with himalayan salt widens the soundstage and makes the kick drum hit two extra times in any songs ......" Me: "sorry I don't hear the difference." AUDIO BOB: "Just be grateful you have untrained "non-audiophile ears."

You know the rest.

I have 3 DAPs and 2 DACs in front of me. With the same IEM, they all sound different, and at times the differences are quite dramatic.
In my case I do not need a scientist to approve of what I am hearing, and to be honest I am not really interested in even knowing why,, doesn't really matter that much.
If you don't hear differences in DAPs or cables, save your money, and thank your lucky stars.

 

[KPzypher]

I have 3 DAPs and 2 DACs in front of me. With the same IEM, they all sound different, and at times the differences are quite dramatic.
In my case I do not need a scientist to approve of what I am hearing, and to be honest I am not really interested in even knowing why,, doesn't really matter that much.
If you don't hear differences in DAPs or cables, save your money, and thank your lucky stars.

Good for you. But see, what you've just said is the problem. Don't tell me how to spend my money, unless I ask for your opinion. Just because I don't hear dramatic differences, doesn't mean I shouldn't own different gears. I just bought LPGT so I can take advantage of PMEQ for FR to match my preference. And I also own N6II, R6 PRO and Mojo for various reasons. Go re-read what I wrote in my previous post. I said I respect others opinions. Just don't attribute my lack of discernment (dramatic differences, not subtle nuances) to you having better hearing. Look at your last sentence. That's exactly what you wrote. You wanna compare hearing test results? I bet you I have better hearing than you as my job requires me to take a hearing test semi-annually. SMH.

 

[candlejack]

I have 3 DAPs and 2 DACs in front of me. With the same IEM, they all sound different, and at times the differences are quite dramatic.
In my case I do not need a scientist to approve of what I am hearing, and to be honest I am not really interested in even knowing why,, doesn't really matter that much.
If you don't hear differences in DAPs or cables, save your money, and thank your lucky stars.

You must be BOB. Nice to meet you.

 

[518013]

Good for you. But see, what you've just said is the problem. Don't tell me how to spend my money, unless I ask for your opinion. Just because I don't hear dramatic differences, doesn't mean I shouldn't own different gears. I just bought LPGT so I can take advantage of PMEQ for FR to match my preference. And I also own N6II, R6 PRO and Mojo for various reasons. Go re-read what I wrote in my previous post. I said I respect others opinions. Just don't attribute my lack of discernment (dramatic differences, not subtle nuances) to you having better hearing. Look at your last sentence. That's exactly what you wrote. You wanna compare hearing test results? I bet you I have better hearing than you as my job requires me to take a hearing test semi-annually. SMH.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the reason why this stuff belongs in the science section.
I am not telling you to buy or not buy gear, for all I care you can use the DMP-Z1 as a doorstop, if you have superman hearing and you still don't hear differences between an iPhone and a DMP-Z1, more power to you
. I hear what I hear, and you hear what you hear, that is the only thing that matters. Job titles or hearing tests don't really give anyone a leg up or moral superiority.

Penis sizes,,,now that is a totally different story.

 

[KPzypher]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ is the reason why this stuff belongs in the science section.
I am not telling you to buy or not buy gear, for all I care you can use the DMP-Z1 as a doorstop, if you have superman hearing and you still don't hear differences between an iPhone and a DMP-Z1, more power to you
. I hear what I hear, and you hear what you hear, that is the only thing that matters. Job titles or hearing tests don't really give anyone a leg up or moral superiority.

Penis sizes,,,now that is a totally different story.

OK. This will be my last response. I'm not arguing what you hear for the 3rd time. What you hear is what you hear, and I couldn't careless. You said, If I don't hear differences like you do, save my money and thank the stars. It's about your attitude somehow thinking what you hear is the universal truth. I'm not the one standing on moral superiority here. Anyways, I'm not picking a fight with you, if that's what you think.

Do enjoy your music!

 

[518013]

OK. This will be my last response. I'm not arguing what you hear for the 3rd time. What you hear is what you hear, and I couldn't careless. You said, If I don't hear differences like you do, save my money and thank the stars. It's about your attitude somehow thinking what you hear is the universal truth. I'm not the one standing on moral superiority here. Anyways, I'm not picking a fight with you, if that's what you think.

Do enjoy your music!

I apologize for taking it the wrong way, and replying the way I did.
I think some IEMs are more sensitive to DAP changes than others, and with all that said, the added subjectivity of how we all perceive sound, it's pointless for anyone to claim any universal truths.
The people who support the "Science" argument, tend to interject that in as a roundabout arbiter.
It's very hard to apply the scientific method to human perception, where all the parameters have not even been identified, let alone quantified.

I didn't mean to pick a fight... I was just trying to add in my two cents, Should have been more careful with my words.

 

[KPzypher]

I apologize for taking it the wrong way, and replying the way I did.
I think some IEMs are more sensitive to DAP changes than others, and with all that said, the added subjectivity of how we all perceive sound, it's pointless for anyone to claim any universal truths.
The people who support the "Science" argument, tend to interject that in as a roundabout arbiter.
It's very hard to apply the scientific method to human perception, where all the know parameters have not even been identified, let alone quantified.

I didn't mean to pick a fight... I was just trying to add in my two cents, Should have been more careful with my words.

Well said. I apologize to if I wasn't clear regarding my comments. Like everyone else here, I believe what I believe. But I try not to dissuade others from their views. I just love listening to music. That's the only fact I can give you.

Cheers!

 

[Vitaly2017]

My rig
WM1Z + Oriolus BA300S(because WM1Z’s power is not enough for IER-Z1R) + Brise audio Yotono + IER-Z1R.

Haha I got the same setup bit with stock sony cable maaan Once I tried the oriolus I never went back to 1z alone haha.

I got new ideas though what if we can hook 2 oriolus LoL in a stack to double the goodness or even just add a wa11 to make it even more ludacriciously good in a 3 stack !!!

Ier-z1r do sound way better with more proper juice, people you need to believe us !