[Whitigir]

I kept saying this....human is limited in understanding the universe. Whoever keeps saying that “improvements” do not exist until measured is....straight out “dumb”

Einstein did talk about gravitational waves, human could not measure it, doesn’t mean it did not exist....

Guess who measured those WaVes ? An audiophile did!

Once again, the magic of human is their senses as they use it to observe this universes. However, not all things can be observed....but if you deny something’s from human observations by using their senses because you can’t scientifically prove it, you are...dumb...

Science is the after fact from human observations, period

 

[ervin192]

Ok, but we were discussing the influence of one specific component: the cable. Are there any test results with a negligible cable length (e.g. 1cm). This should be the first thing to check if you're interested in quantifying the impact of the cable on the system.

Sadly the truth is the cable cannot be neglected, not even at 1cm, nor even it's a mere solder point. So I guess the topic should ends here for us.

 

[nc8000]

Sadly the truth is the cable cannot be neglected, not even at 1cm, nor even it's a mere solder point. So I guess the topic should ends here for us.

Or at least move to the sound science forum. I’m a cable believer to some extend and find it fascinating to understand why changes happen

 

[ervin192]

As a cable believer who’s semi-objectivist, these measurements are really dodgy. Variance between them is so small that one could chalk it up to human error. And on top of that a lot of perceived difference in cables is usually in what would generally be in a FR or timbre domain, not just the time domain.

My personal opinions are

- It's quite okay to question these results, since I'm only quoting and I haven't experimented this way (earcups can cause similar effects). However 3-6 dB is generally a audible difference, on the other hand.

- The cables are actually taking their effects mainly in the time domain, because they are part of the LCR system. It's just people would generally confuse time and frequency domain because they lack training. For example a harsh treble peak is in fact more obvious because it lasts long, not because it's overloud.

These are far off topic now so I'll just stop.

 

[aminus]

My personal opinions are

- It's quite okay to question these results, since I'm only quoting and I haven't experimented this way (earcups can cause similar effects). However 3-6 dB is generally a audible difference, on the other hand.

- The cables are actually taking their effects mainly in the time domain, because they are part of the LCR system. It's just people would generally confuse time and frequency domain because they lack training. For example a harsh treble peak is in fact more obvious because it lasts long, not because it's overloud.

These are far off topic now so I'll just stop.

The differences in those results would certainly be audible, the only thing I’m questioning is just how much of it is down to varying headphone placement on the coupler. As for the time/frequency domain thing, the reason I brought that up is because while I certainly have heard cables that affect what I’d consider to be attack and decay, I’ve also heard cables that affect what I’d consider to be the frequency response without really messing with the time domain. Combine that with the fact that I’m able to corroborate very similar opinions with other people without any sort of mention of my own thoughts of the cable beforehand and you have what I would consider to be a fine example of measurements being limited in scope.

I should stop here as well.

 

[candlejack]

Some remarks:

I kept saying this....human is limited in understanding the universe. Whoever keeps saying that “improvements” do not exist until measured is....straight out “dumb”.

If you start from the premise that the human auditory system is a better instrument to examine sound than the best man-made instruments, then you're right. Otherwise, the "dumb" is on the other foot.

Einstein did talk about gravitational waves, human could not measure it, doesn’t mean it did not exist....

He didn't claim to sense gravitational waves, he conceived them. Quite the difference.

Once again, the magic of human is their senses as they use it to observe this universes. However, not all things can be observed....but if you deny something’s from human observations by using their senses because you can’t scientifically prove it, you are...dumb...

We are way beyond the point where scientific observation was limited to our natural senses.

Science is the after fact from human observations, period

Yes, but not just through the naked senses.

General observations:
While quite off-topic, I've enjoyed this conversation and have learned a few things. I believe everyone who participated did so in good faith, which somewhat compensated for the OT'ness. We shouldn't pollute the Z1R thread too much, but at the same time, I know some people don't venture far from their equipment forum, so it's nice to bring a bit of the other discussions to them, just enough to stimulate their curiosity. Thanks!

 

[Whitigir]

I am not here for cat fighting, so my points stand firm.

Human is very limited even in their senses, but their senses is their magic. So, if only 1 can observe cables differences, and the world deny it, then that is fine. But if there are many who can observe it, and as a scientist, you can not measure it or picture it, then you are not a scientist. Let alone that any real scientist would never give up when they can’t prove something, they just keep on chasing it instead of saying “it can’t be measured, it doesn’t exist”.

Could Einstein measure gravitational waves ? Were there people who didn’t believe it ? Being skeptical ? Sure.

I am saying, science has brought human into a great evolution, but science is not Omniknowledge. If you are a scientist, and you say that your instruments can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist .... what about gravitational waves ? Could it have been recorded at Einstein time ? It only meant that “you are not there yet”

Therefore, allow me to say this, you can not measure and see the changes in cables differences, because you are not there yet.

If you want to start conceiving why Cables differences would make a different, then let me quote for you from a science book by itself “transfer function or transfer property”, when an electrical signal pass by a conductor (be it a wire, resistors, capacitor...etc...) it is affected. Yes, real scientists know it. Now, prove to me that you are that enthusiastic about finding out “why”, otherwise.

 

[BananaOoyoo]

Next thing you know, we'll be debating the benefits of sticking hi-res audio stickers on everything.

 

[Whitigir]

While we are onto cables, and it differences, and we are here because it is observable by people. So, let me rephrase that, I am not only a believer in Cables, I conducted experiments with my own skills, and though I don’t have instruments or the capability to go find out why, or to start pivoting folks into proof such as graphs and measurements, but cables differences is real. It is very real and observable.

I even came to the point that the real differences is very little, but it is there. However, in order for you to utilize and maximize the cables differences into your favor of preferences and audio performances, you would have to point it toward Synergies. When I arrived at this point, it blew my mind that there are so many other companies and cables makers claiming that their cables is an “end all and be all” of cables. A simple cables can cost $3-4K, of which can be used to improve “Many systems, Universally”!!

Let me just say this, a DMP-Z1 and HD800S will sound very different from an AK SP1000 or HDV820 and HD800S

So, in my own opinions, Cables that can generally improve your own headphones or IEMS universally do exist. However, it wouldn’t cost you any arm and legs, and when a company is already doing their best to bring even the stock cables to performances, these general improvements of cables could even be a degrade instead. It is very possible to further improve it, but not without carefully understanding, the desires, the preferences, the synergies on a very specific system in order to do so.

 

[heimis]

Beat Audio had (as all 10 pairs have been ordered) a custom cable for the Z1R costing a whopping $4,999.00!!!

 

[phonomat]

lol

 

[McMadface]

Next thing you know, we'll be debating the benefits of sticking hi-res audio stickers on everything.

Definitely made it more piercing.

 

[phonomat]

Definitely made it more piercing.

I had one of those, but the sound was leaning a bit to the metallic side.

 

[ttt123]

Definitely made it more piercing.

You'll need to do a double blind test to verify that. And did you mean "piercing" as being a very sharp and grating sound, or in how smoothly the staple penetrates flesh. And we need to define whether piercing something soft, like the buttocks, or muscular, like a thigh.

 

[gerelmx1986]

Definitely made it more piercing.

Good one