[phoenixdogfan]

Well, it looks like yet another reason for me to upgrade my C8. Was going to this year if getting the A16 wasn't going to be possible until closer to December, but now I'll probably just wait until around this time next year and get a C2 (what are they going to do with their naming scheme once we hit 2028?). I'll try my TV out just to see, but it likely won't work as it's an older model. Although mine still outputs DTS, which LG did away with I think starting with the C9. IIRC, the early OLEDs had constant eARC issues, and they did finally iron out the kinks, but I hadn't been closely following as to the when as it wasn't pertinent information at the time for my uses.

As far as an import tax goes, that would have been nice to know upfront since I'm a little strapped right at the moment. Would have been easy enough to cover with the CC. Hopefully if there is a tax, it's not in the hundreds.

I live in the US, so no VAT, customs fees were around $40, but my home state assessed me a $400 use tax around a year after it arrived. So you may find the long arm of the taxman reaching for your wallet.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Not entirely true, yes there can be objects but it doesn't mean everything will be an object. Bed layer still exists and matters. A bad Atmos mix could have very few objects in it.

https://learning.dolby.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052744252-Module-1-2-Beyond-Multichannel-Audio-

The bed layer is 7.1, I believe, and any speaker's beyond that are used to help create Atmos "objects", so AFIK, the codec is not implemented in such a way as to create a strict 7.1.4 mix vs a 9.1.6 mix, or a 15.1.8 mix. If you have the extra speakers, depending on where the Atmos objects are situated in the sound field, they can indeed be utilized.

 

[castleofargh]

You guys ask questions sometimes that make me role my eyes thinking the answer is obvious. Then as I reply, I start thinking about other scenarios where my answer might just not be right. And soon enough I don't post anything because I now have more doubts than the guy asking the original question.

Thank you for making me think outside the box and help me challenge what I consider known. Also, I hate you.


^_^

 

[Sanctuary]

For future reference, don't ever try paying the import tax online or even over the phone with UPS. Just write a check and have it ready. When I tried paying the first time, I used Paypal, and when it redirected me back to the UPS payment page, it said there was an error with my "card" and that payment could not be processed. Yet I still had a pending charge via Paypal. So I called UPS Customhouse Brokerage to see what was going on, and they said that they had no notice of a pending transaction on their end, and that if I just wanted to pay over the phone that I could. So I did, got my confirmation number, and then around six hours later my email updated as the payment for the tax being accepted.

So I get a knock on my door (21 hours after the payment accepted email) and the UPS guy is saying he cannot give me the package unless I pay $64.52. I told him that I already had, and even had a receipt for it, but he said "If it's not on my board, I can't release the package". I ended up having to pay that amount again, and am now sitting on the phone waiting for a UPS agent to pick up, instead of opening my box. There's also a chance that the Paypal payment actually goes through, and the agent I spoke with last night said that if that happened, they would write me a check for a refund, but that it could take a really long time. Now I have to potentially wait for two checks just because I wanted to actually pay ahead of time...

Edit: Apparently it was posted to the local office at 9:00am that I had already paid, and the delivery driver was here an hour later. He actually could have called the office to verify, but didn't want to.

 

[Got the Shakes]

For future reference, don't ever try paying the import tax online or even over the phone with UPS. Just write a check and have it ready. When I tried paying the first time, I used Paypal, and when it redirected me back to the UPS payment page, it said there was an error with my "card" and that payment could not be processed. Yet I still had a pending charge via Paypal. So I called UPS Customhouse Brokerage to see what was going on, and they said that they had no notice of a pending transaction on their end, and that if I just wanted to pay over the phone that I could. So I did, got my confirmation number, and then around six hours later my email updated as the payment for the tax being accepted.

So I get a knock on my door (21 hours after the payment accepted email) and the UPS guy is saying he cannot give me the package unless I pay $64.52. I told him that I already had, and even had a receipt for it, but he said "If it's not on my board, I can't release the package". I ended up having to pay that amount again, and am now sitting on the phone waiting for a UPS agent to pick up, instead of opening my box. There's also a chance that the Paypal payment actually goes through, and the agent I spoke with last night said that if that happened, they would write me a check for a refund, but that it could take a really long time. Now I have to potentially wait for two checks just because I wanted to actually pay ahead of time...

Edit: Apparently it was posted to the local office at 9:00am that I had already paid, and the delivery driver was here an hour later. He actually could have called the office to verify, but didn't want to.

I didn’t have this issue when I first took delivery of my A16, but did when I received it the second time after doing the upgrade. I had to call a UPS office who then had to radio the driver to turn around deliver my package since I paid. I honestly forgot about that whole ordeal until you mentioned it.

 

[Sanctuary]

I didn’t have this issue when I first took delivery of my A16, but did when I received it the second time after doing the upgrade. I had to call a UPS office who then had to radio the driver to turn around deliver my package since I paid. I honestly forgot about that whole ordeal until you mentioned it.

The woman I recently spoke with on the phone said that either I simply wait for the check to clear, which then will show up as a double pay on their invoice, and then they will send me a refund (nine weeks), or try contacting the local dispatch and have them rip up the check before cashing it since they have it in their records now that I already paid before today. They don't open for another two hours though, so hopefully I'll get through.

Oh, and it's a good thing that I already had a small surplus of A8 foam tips, as well as the Dekoni I had previously ordered since they did not supply any with my A16 (oops?).

Anyway, back to going through these daunting menus.

 

[Got the Shakes]

The woman I recently spoke with on the phone said that either I simply wait for the check to clear, which then will show up as a double pay on their invoice, and then they will send me a refund (nine weeks), or try contacting the local dispatch and have them rip up the check before cashing it since they have it in their records now that I already paid before today. They don't open for another two hours though, so hopefully I'll get through.

Oh, and it's a good thing that I already had a small surplus of A8 foam tips, as well as the Dekoni I had previously ordered since they did not supply any with my A16 (oops?).

Anyway, back to going through these daunting menus.

My driver handed me the number to call and said he’d be in my neighborhood for a bit so if the office confirmed I’d already paid, he’d come back to my house and drop it off. I spoke to someone at the office, she sent something to the driver and 10 minutes he was back with my A16. More work than I should have had to put into it, but I didn’t have to deal with paying twice at least.

 

[makan]

well, I have ordered an HDMI cable and I will see if it will work with just the TV eARC to the A16. I have a Denon AVR from 2009 and so, I shouldn't be surprised that your trick to connect the AVR out to A16 in did not work. With auto on the TV, I get 5.1, but with passthrough, I get nothing, not even 5.1...so, hoping the new hdmi cable replacing my 2010 hdmi cable will pass the atmos to the A16

Well, no luck. Using a 4k hdmi cable and still the same. With the digital audio output on auto, I get dolby digital 5.1, but with digital audio output on my tv on passthrough, I get nothing....maybe this is just with the Disney app. I have a blu ray player hooked up directly to the a16 as well to try the trick of having an atmos capable device in the loop, but no dice

 

[dsperber]

Well, no luck. Using a 4k hdmi cable and still the same. With the digital audio output on auto, I get dolby digital 5.1, but with digital audio output on my tv on passthrough, I get nothing....maybe this is just with the Disney app. I have a blu ray player hooked up directly to the a16 as well to try the trick of having an atmos capable device in the loop, but no dice

As I feared, I'm afraid. Again, same results as my experience prior to connecting any HDMI input of my A16 to the HDMI-out of my "modern Atmos-capable AVR" with a second HDMI cable. This is apparently successful purely because the HDMI-handshake interrogation to determine if Atmos is supported is now satisfied successfully. It would appear that without the Atmos-capable AVR in the picture (at the far end of two HDMI cables, and really irrelevant to the eARC audio only going as far as to the A16) the TV app doesn't see the A16 at Atmos-capable. I know that's not what I thought or expected, but it sure seems to be true.

Of course the TV app doesn't realize that the eARC audio is not going to go any further than the A16, but because the HDMI handshake itself which "authorized" Atmos audio saw the AVR at the far end of the HDMI chain, it thinks it is going to be sending Atmos via eARC to that AVR, and does so. And then the A16 can receive it and send it to the connected headphones, not really passing it on to the AVR at all. That is my theory, that all by itself standalone the A16 appears not communicating to the TV app that it is actually Atmos-capable.

Those were my experimental results, and now yours as well. Your Denon AVR from 2009 is not Atmos-capable. My Yamaha AVR from 2020 is Atmos-capable.

Now this same theory (that either an Atmos-capable TV or AVR is required to be connected to the A16, in order for the source of any kind to send Atmos) is further backed up by my three external streaming devices going INTO the A16's HDMI inputs, with HDMI-out of the A16 going to an HDMI-in on my AVR (or to my LG C9 TV which is Atmos-capable). As long as there is a downstream device connected, which itself is Atmos-capable, the source (either from TV app via eARC, or external source into the A16) will deliver Atmos audio.

==> It doesn't have to be an Atmos-capable AVR connected to the A16 that is the trick. It can be an Atmos-capable TV as well. But it appears SOME Atmos-capable device has to be on the HDMI cable chain on the other side of the A16, in order for the source to agree to send Atmos audio.

These test setups are easy to demonstrate because the TV screen is always active so source navigation is possible. And they all prove that with the A16 dead-ended no Atmos is delivered. With the AVR or TV connected to the A16, Atmos is delivered. The one remaining test, with only external sources into the A16 but no TV/AVR out of the A16 is tough, because there is nothing on the TV screen to assist navigating to a movie with Atmos. Flying "blind". But I still will try to get this final test done.

 

[makan]

As I feared, I'm afraid. Again, same results as my experience prior to connecting any HDMI input of my A16 to the HDMI-out of my "modern Atmos-capable AVR" with a second HDMI cable. This is apparently successful purely because the HDMI-handshake interrogation to determine if Atmos is supported is now satisfied successfully. It would appear that without the Atmos-capable AVR in the picture (at the far end of two HDMI cables, and really irrelevant to the eARC audio only going as far as to the A16) the TV app doesn't see the A16 at Atmos-capable. I know that's not what I thought or expected, but it sure seems to be true.

Of course the TV app doesn't realize that the eARC audio is not going to go any further than the A16, but because the HDMI handshake itself which "authorized" Atmos audio saw the AVR at the far end of the HDMI chain, it thinks it is going to be sending Atmos via eARC to that AVR, and does so. And then the A16 can receive it and send it to the connected headphones, not really passing it on to the AVR at all. That is my theory, that all by itself standalone the A16 appears not communicating to the TV app that it is actually Atmos-capable.

Those were my experimental results, and now yours as well. Your Denon AVR from 2009 is not Atmos-capable. My Yamaha AVR from 2020 is Atmos-capable.

Now this same theory (that either an Atmos-capable TV or AVR is required to be connected to the A16, in order for the source of any kind to send Atmos) is further backed up by my three external streaming devices going INTO the A16's HDMI inputs, with HDMI-out of the A16 going to an HDMI-in on my AVR (or to my LG C9 TV which is Atmos-capable). As long as there is a downstream device connected, which itself is Atmos-capable, the source (either from TV app via eARC, or external source into the A16) will deliver Atmos audio.

==> It doesn't have to be an Atmos-capable AVR connected to the A16 that is the trick. It can be an Atmos-capable TV as well. But it appears SOME Atmos-capable device has to be on the HDMI cable chain on the other side of the A16, in order for the source to agree to send Atmos audio.

These test setups are easy to demonstrate because the TV screen is always active so source navigation is possible. And they all prove that with the A16 dead-ended no Atmos is delivered. With the AVR or TV connected to the A16, Atmos is delivered. The one remaining test, with only external sources into the A16 but no TV/AVR out of the A16 is tough, because there is nothing on the TV screen to assist navigating to a movie with Atmos. Flying "blind". But I still will try to get this final test done.

don't feel like buying a new AVR that is atmos and eARC capable...but may have to buy a cheap one. Could be my hisense TV that is wonky with the eARC atmos, or of course, the A16’s eARC is not playing nice with some atmos tvs

 

[sander99]

don't feel like buying a new AVR that is atmos and eARC capable...but may have to buy a cheap one. Could be my hisense TV that is wonky with the eARC atmos, or of course, the A16’s eARC is not playing nice with some atmos tvs

Maybe an EDID emulator can solve the problem. I'll explain later if you want, busy now.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

don't feel like buying a new AVR that is atmos and eARC capable...but may have to buy a cheap one. Could be my hisense TV that is wonky with the eARC atmos, or of course, the A16’s eARC is not playing nice with some atmos tvs

Does anyone know if it plays nice with an LG C1?

 

[Got the Shakes]

Does anyone know if it plays nice with an LG C1?

I can only speak to the CX which is a year older than the C1, but Atmos via eARC works 100% of the time for me.

 

[dsperber]

Maybe an EDID emulator can solve the problem. I'll explain later if you want, busy now.

I mention in passing that the HD Fury Dr. HDMI 4K did NOT work for me, in successfully facilitating one of my cabling approaches which involved using BOTH the HDMI1-out and HDMI2-out of my Yamaha RX-A1080 AVR. This was the theoretical alternative to using a single splitter on HDMI1-out which actually DID work to feed both TV (in 4K) and A16 (in 1080p) from the single HDMI output of the AVR, using the two outputs of the AVR instead.

Although the splitter method did accomplish the goal, it was at the expense of losing eARC and also HDMI-CEC, and in the end I decided that was to great a cost.

So using the two outputs of the AVR itself, as if it were the splitter, was the next idea. The original failure with that was that both supposed TV's (connected to the two HDMI outputs of the AVR) had to be 4K, in order for sources to send 4K. With only the A16 connected to HDMI2-out it appeared to be only 1080p-capable, so I only got 1080p on the primary HDMI1-out going to my real LG C9.

That was when the Dr. HDMI 4K EDID emulator was proposed as a possible solution, and I bought one. With no instructions provided but the item having both HDMI-input and HDMI-output, it wasn't obvious to me whether I should cable AVR -> Fury -> A16, or AVR -> A16 -> Fury. I decided it was probably the former, so that the Dr. HDMI 4K could represent a 4K TV supporting both Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos (presumably what "FS", i.e. "full sound", was intended to imply). Again, it would have been helpful if instructions had accompanied the product.

Anyway, I was simply unable to get it to facilitate dual-output from the AVR. I tried the Fury set at "green-1", which is maximum 4K 60fps video and full-sound audio, cabled between AVR and A16. But for some reason there was then no video output on HDMI1-out of the AVR going to the TV. Then I tried dropping the Fury down to "green-3", which I think was annotated on the unit as "DV1 for LG C7 with FS" (which I took to mean Dolby Vision for the C7, but I don't see why green-1 didn't work). The green-3 setting didn't work either.

In the end I just removed it, as an unsuccessful experiment. The objective would have been to support almost all configurations and situations without requiring a physical move of the HDMI cable going to the TV, from HDMI-out on the AVR over to the HDMI-out on the A16 (which has to be done in ANY setup no matter what, in order to get eARC audio to the A16 and headphones). As it turns out, reverting back to my very original cabling setup accomplishes exactly the same thing, without a splitter and without the Fury and HDMI1+2. Yes, I still have to move the TV cable to the A16 for eARC audio from headphones, but leaving it on the AVR supports eARC audio from speakers. And leaving it on the AVR supports all other sources coming through the A16 (just that it must be powered on).

I'll be glad to sell my Dr. HDMI 4K at 50% off to anyone who wants to try it. It did arrive quite promptly from China, at $119 + $28 shipping = $147. It's yours for $75 from me with free shipping.

So, to summarize my cabling:

(1) A16: HDMI-out -> video to HDMI3-in of A1080 AVR
(a) Oppo 203 HDMI2-out (audio-only) -> HDMI1-in of A16
(b) Roku Ultra 2020 -> HDMI2-in of A16
(c) ATV4K 2019 -> HDMI3-in of A16
(d) Shield Tube 2019 -> HDMI4-in of A16

(2) A1080 AVR: HDMI1-out video -> HDMI2-in of LG OLED C9 (automatically also facilitates eARC audio from TV apps back to AVR and 2.0 speakers)
(a) Oppo 103 HDMI1-out (audio/video) -> HDMI1-in of A1080 AVR, audio output -> downmixed 2ch-stereo for 2.0 speakers
(b) Oppo 203 HDMI1-out (video-only) -> HDMI2-in of A1080 AVR
(c) Oppo downmixed 2.0 stereo L/R analog output -> DBX 14/10 EQ (tone control) -> analog input associated with HDMI2-in of A1080 AVR, for 2.0 speakers
(d) A16 HDMI-out -> HDMI3-in of A1080 AVR, audio output -> downmixed 2ch-stereo for 2.0 speakers (requires enabling "HDMI pass-through" on A16)

(3) Oppo 203 HDMI1-out video -> HDMI2-in of A1080 AVR
(a) WMC Linksys DMA2100 extender (for cable/OTA HDTV) -> rear external HDMI input to 203, delivering 720p/1080i HDTV deinterlaced/upscaled 2160p to LG OLED C9
(b) downmixed 2.0 stereo L/R analog audio output -> DBX 14/10 EQ -> analog audio input for HDMI2-in of A1080 AVR

(4) For eARC audio from headphones, the AVR-end of the HDMI cable going to the TV is temporarily moved from HDMI1-out of the AVR over to HDMI-out of the A16. Also, a second HDMI cable is temporarily used to connect any HDMI input of the A16 to HDMI1-out of the AVR. Otherwise, for eARC audio from AVR and 2.0 speakers the normal cabling arrangement provides this automatically when a TV app is used as the source for audio/video.

(5) To listen to sound through A16/headphones the A16 must be powered on and the AVR can either be powered on or off (as "HDMI standby-through" is enabled on the AVR, input video is always output to the TV and this does not require the AVR to be powered on). To listen to sound through 2.0 speakers the AVR must be powered on. For HDTV sound from speakers the A16 is left powered off (since analog audio from the 203 goes through the 14/10 EQ and on to the AVR analog audio input).

(6) For 2.0 speaker sound from the three streaming sources going into the A16 (only theoretical, since I normally listen to streaming sources through A16/headphones) the "HDMI pass-through" feature of A16 must be temporarily enabled and the A16 left powered off. This will send multi-channel source audio along with source video from streaming source to HDMI-out of the A16, and into HDMI3-in of the AVR which is powered on. Sound is presented as downmixed 2.0 stereo via 2ch-Stereo on the AVR.

(7) The inherent conveniences of HDMI-CEC for all devices, facilitated primarily through the direct HDMI cable between HDMI1-out of the AVR and HDMI2-in of the TV are simply advantages you cannot live without. For example, to make use of my new Silicon Dust HDHR Flex 4K ATSC 3.0 OTA tuner (supporting both ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 broadcast channels) I use the HDHR app that runs on the LG TV. Pressing the Power button on the TV remote gets things started, powering on the TV and also the AVR. Then, using the TV remote to select the HDHR app on the LG automatically activates eARC to deliver 5.1 audio to the AVR. And this in turn automatically causes the AVR to switch to AUDIO1 on the A1080 (used to be AV4 on the A860), which is where eARC audio-only goes into the AVR for presentation out of its speakers (in this case, downmixed to 2ch-stereo by the AVR). All this happens automatically from just (1) powering on the TV, and (2) selecting the HDHR app on the TV.

Similarly, if I want to watch/listen to either Oppo 203 (for disc) or one of the three streaming sources going into the A16, I of course have to power on the A16 and wait for it to stablize. Then I pick the proper preset which relates to the A/V source I'm wanting to use. With these required preliminary steps done, I now just power on the particular source I'm wanting to use with its own remote. That automatically powers on the TV, and powers on the AVR, and automatically switches the AVR to select HDMI3-in (which is being fed by the A16, i.e. passing through any of the streaming sources feeding into the A16), as all sources into the A16 are seen as the one HDMI3-in to the AVR coming from HDMI-out of the A16. So with one power-on of the specific source to be used, the TV and AVR both power on and the AVR selects the appropriate input to pass-through video sent through the A16 on to the TV.

For watching HDTV (via the WMC extender fed into the external HDMI input of the Oppo 203 and on to HDMI2-in of the AVR) again it's just press the power button of the 203's remote (after turning on the WMC extender). This automatically powers on the TV and also the AVR, and also automatically switches the AVR to HDMI2-in which is the input coming from the 203. No need to power on the A16 since I'm just listening to 2.0 speakers for everyday HDTV usage. But it all happened automatically just from the single POWER press of the 203's remote.

The wonders of HDMI-CEC and HDMI inter-connects.

That's why in my opinion any cabling configuration that concedes HDMI-CEC or eARC (e.g. when the splitter is being used) is not an ideal one. These are just too great a pair of conveniences to be written off for some other minor advantages. They should both be base requirements of the setup.

 

[Camano]

That was when the Dr. HDMI 4K EDID emulator was proposed as a possible solution, and I bought one. With no instructions provided but the item having both HDMI-input and HDMI-output, it wasn't obvious to me whether I should cable AVR -> Fury -> A16, or AVR -> A16 -> Fury. I decided it was probably the former, so that the Dr. HDMI 4K could represent a 4K TV supporting both Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos (presumably what "FS", i.e. "full sound", was intended to imply). Again, it would have been helpful if instructions had accompanied the product.

When I suggested the Dr HDMI 4K, it was to simulate a 4K/DV/Atmos television plugged into the output of the A16, that is the A16 output->Dr HDMI input.
I'm hoping that nothing needs to be plugged into the output of the Dr HDMI 4K.

The instruction sheet can be found at https://hdfury.com/product/dr-hdmi-4k/ on the "getting started" tab.

NOTE: clicking the URL doesn't work for some reason - just copy and paste it.