[Broke]

I recently purchased a Realiser A16 and have mixed feelings about it so far.
It seems to do a really good job of emulating speakers in a room, but that's quite different from most other virtual surround tech, which simulates speakers in a virtual space.
It's like listening to a recording of someone else's setup. I suppose that is what the box aims to do, but I don't know if I like it. You get the reverb of the recording and the virtual room, instead of just the recording.
I get that the point is to be able to put headphones on and have it sound just like your speaker system - as if the headphones weren't there… but I'm buying a virtual surround system because I can't have a good speaker system in my setup.
In a way, it transforms headphones that I like the sound of, into a system where I can clearly hear what those speakers/room sound like - and they're not necessarily to my taste. Maybe I'll get better results once it's possible to create a PRIR using a single speaker, rotating the listener instead; but I wonder how that affects the sound of the virtual "space" that you're in.

Anyway, the main issue I've run into so far is that no matter what I do, I seem to keep getting channel imbalances when I use a measured HPEQ.

The severity seems to vary depending on the headphones used, but this is the best result I was able to achieve with my Sony headphones.
I tried playing pink noise through the headphones and using the "listen to mics on headphone B" app to position them until the channels were balanced, but still got this offset result from the measurement.

Any ideas what that could be?
Is there a way to alter the balance of a measured HPEQ?

 

[Dixter]

well you say the imbalance is on more than one head phone... so you can rule that out as being the issue... have you checked the mic gains to see if they are matched... swap the mics from left to right and see if the problem follows... if so you might again need to adjust the mic gains... thats all that comes to mind at the moment... if you have the headphone stand version I'd just put the mics into the headphone cups and put the headphones on the A16 while you get it all sorted out...

 

[Broke]

well you say the imbalance is on more than one head phone... so you can rule that out as being the issue... have you checked the mic gains to see if they are matched... swap the mics from left to right and see if the problem follows... if so you might again need to adjust the mic gains... thats all that comes to mind at the moment... if you have the headphone stand version I'd just put the mics into the headphone cups and put the headphones on the A16 while you get it all sorted out...

I thought these were supposed to be calibrated microphones.
I'll have to see where the option is to adjust their level, as I did not notice it before; but there is an overwhelming number of options.

The more I listen to it though, the more I think this is not the right product for me. The Surrey University PRIR sounds better, as it seems to be a larger space.
What I'm looking for might be something like a PRIR measurement taken in an open field - so you get the excellent virtual speaker positioning and the head tracking, but it doesn't sound like everything is inside a room.

 

[dsperber]

The more I listen to it though, the more I think this is not the right product for me.

What I'm looking for might be something like a PRIR measurement taken in an open field - so you get the excellent virtual speaker positioning and the head tracking, but it doesn't sound like everything is inside a room.

You described it correctly earlier, when you characterized the purpose of this device as a way to DUPLICATE THE SOUND OF A LISTENING ENVIRONMENT, rather than to have a generic "best possible sound in the universe" (which is only subjective anyway, and what gets delivered might not be your cup of tea either).

If you were fortunate enough to have access to a brilliant sound room (not your own), and were able to gain access so that you could do a personal PRIR measurement in that room (i.e. "take a sonic photograph, and create a digital "filter" that will allow subsequent playback of any new content through your headphones so that you actually believe you are once again in that very original room"), you would be thrilled.

That's what it's for, to be able to "duplicate" the sound of ANY LISTENING ENVIRONMENT that you create a PRIR for.

 

[sander99]

What I'm looking for might be something like a PRIR measurement taken in an open field - so you get the excellent virtual speaker positioning and the head tracking, but it doesn't sound like everything is inside a room.

A few remarks:
Most music and movies are produced intended firstly for playback over loudspeakers in a room.
Having said that, there are many different sounding rooms and speakers.
Have you ever heard a well set-up room with good speakers?
Do you have a personal made PRIR of a well set-up room? Non-personal PRIRs like the BBC and the Surrey will most likely not sound optimal for you. Another thing is that a PRIR of a room that doesn't resemble the room - in size for example - that you are actually in when you listen to this PRIR can sound less natural and convincing.

If you really want to hear as little as possible of the room reverberation: the A16 has an option to reduce the reverberation.
(In a listening room -> Manage Bass/Reverb/Tactile -> Limit reverb, toggle this on and set the value to the minimum of 0.25. I wish they allowed a much lower value, if only to satisfy my own curiosity about how it would sound.)

Maybe I'll get better results once it's possible to create a PRIR using a single speaker, rotating the listener instead

Do you mean "once the A16 can do this"? In that case "once" is "now". The A16 can do it, although a bit clumsy with replugging to different analog outputs or making seperate PRIRs and changing the PRIR sound room between channels.

 

[Broke]

You described it correctly earlier, when you characterized the purpose of this device as a way to DUPLICATE THE SOUND OF A LISTENING ENVIRONMENT, rather than to have a generic "best possible sound in the universe" (which is only subjective anyway, and what gets delivered might not be your cup of tea either).

If you were fortunate enough to have access to a brilliant sound room (not your own), and were able to gain access so that you could do a personal PRIR measurement in that room (i.e. "take a sonic photograph, and create a digital "filter" that will allow subsequent playback of any new content through your headphones so that you actually believe you are once again in that very original room"), you would be thrilled.

That's what it's for, to be able to "duplicate" the sound of ANY LISTENING ENVIRONMENT that you create a PRIR for.

Yes, I understand that. The idea of being able to listen to any content "in a reference sound room" via my headphones was the selling point of the Realiser for me.
What I did not anticipate is how that actually sounds.

If I am watching a movie or playing a game where there is a scene outdoors, the Realiser makes it sound like I'm hearing this on a good set of speakers, with very natural positioning; but it places those sounds in a box.
I don't get the sound of being in an outdoor location. I get the sound of being in a room.
If it's a recording indoors, I get the reverberation of the scene, and the box the Realiser places it in.

Other virtual surround solutions I've used - and clearly nothing works as well as I'd like, as I've still been searching - don't do that. Well, not all of them - the old Dolby Headphone did, which is why I never liked it.
That's why I said that I think the sound I want from the Realiser would be a PRIR generated in a wide open field - keep the awesome positioning, the tracking, and how natural the virtual surround sounds; but without confining it to a room.

A few remarks:
Most music and movies are produced intended firstly for playback over loudspeakers in a room.
Having said that, there are many different sounding rooms and speakers.
Have you ever heard a well set-up room with good speakers?
Do you have a personal made PRIR of a well set-up room? Non-personal PRIRs like the BBC and the Surrey will most likely not sound optimal for you. Another thing is that a PRIR of a room that doesn't resemble the room - in size for example - that you are actually in when you listen to this PRIR can sound less natural and convincing.

I don't have any custom PRIRs yet. I realize that will make the effect of being transported to another room - or just making the headphones disappear and sound like I'm listening to my own speaker setup - sound more convincing; but that's not really the issue I have with it.

If you really want to hear as little as possible of the room reverberation: the A16 has an option to reduce the reverberation.
(In a listening room -> Manage Bass/Reverb/Tactile -> Limit reverb, toggle this on and set the value to the minimum of 0.25. I wish they allowed a much lower value, if only to satisfy my own curiosity about how it would sound.)

Thanks. I wasn't aware of that and, well it certainly sounds different - I'm not sure that it's better.

Do you mean "once the A16 can do this"? In that case "once" is "now". The A16 can do it, although a bit clumsy with replugging to different analog outputs or making seperate PRIRs and changing the PRIR sound room between channels.

I did. I thought I had read it was an upcoming feature, but having now watched everything on the Smyth YouTube channel, I see that it is already an option.

 

[Fox1977]

The idea of being able to listen to any content "in a reference sound room" via my headphones was the selling point of the Realiser for me.
What I did not anticipate is how that actually sounds.

You may be looking for something that doesn’t exist, not of my knowledge at least.
The A16 is one of a kind.
It emulates a set of speakers in a room. So it can just be as good (or as bad !) as the actual set of speakers/room where it was measured.
If you are expecting a different experience than what you can hear in a theater or home-theater, then you will be disappointed, indeed.

 

[castleofargh]

@Broke half of your problems come from the fact that right now you're not using the A16 as it was intended. The second half is that apparently you're looking for a concept of correct that is not correct.

First half, you're not using a room as measured at your ears, instead you're using the default stuff loaded on the A16. I can't claim that it won't sound fine to some people, but I can say that it's not what the device was made for. Your imbalance could be one of the consequences. When you measure the speakers and then the headphone using the same mics placed the same way in your ears, it won't matter if there is some imbalance because it will be on both measured and will cancel out. But if you only do the HPEQ, you're at the mercy of the mics and the internal ADC.

Second part is that the overwhelming majority of mixed and master audio will have been handled on speakers in a studio. I guess you could pull some long power cord into a garden and record a pair of speakers at various positions to have as little reverb as possible. And it would probably give you a better feeling of being outside in some game. But for almost everything else, you would have almost no reverb on sounds made to be replayed with room reverb. If it's your preference, of course go ahead, but keep in mind that for most sounds, it won't be as intended or more accurate.
At the same time, a recording studio is never going to be as reverberant as when I'm in my shower. So it's absolutely possible to end up with too much reverb(subjectively and objectively) and picking the right room is a very relevant concern. No doubt about that. But I would strongly advise to try and get your own complete measurement, even with crappy speakers, even in a crappy room that sounds like a tunnel. Just so you get a better idea of the actual experience that device is supposed to provide. Subjectively, getting closer to your own HRTF simulation could change a lot more than some little imbalance. Maybe it will make reverb less important to you, maybe not, but then you'll know exactly where you stand. Then you go take a rich audiophile grandpa hostage and use his setup and big nice room to record your PRIRs and HPEQ. Or maybe ask someone you know for permission to play weird sounds in his house for half a day. It doesn't have to be a crime to sound good.

 

[audiohobbit]

Your imbalance could be one of the consequences

I would be surprised if there was an imbalance in the artificial head recordings of those demo rooms!

The first thing to check is of course the headtracking angle: if it's not 0 then there is an imbalance on the headphone. So please make sure that the headtracker angle is 0.
With the new FW 1.98 there is a switch to turn off the headtracker, then it is automatically reset to 0.

Second thing: The mics are paired so that they lie within +/- 1 dB (I think). But of course there could be an error or could be damaged/whatever. so switching the mics left/right for testing is not a bad idea.

Third: If all this is ruled out, then it is entirely possible that your ears are not symmetric and the imbalance measured by the HPEQ IS really there!
BUT your brain would be used to this and would not hear this imbalance in normal hearing (someone standing in front of you wouldn't sound like 1 m to the right/left, but it definitely could be that objectively measured in your ears that could really be)
So if this is the case, the HPEQ would show that BUT a PRIR made with your own ears would also have this imbalance and together with the HPEQ it would effectively sound correct again to you.
But if only the HPEQ contains this imbalance and you use a non-personal PRIR you could hear that imbalance.

Which leads to the next question: Do you hear this imbalance, is the virtual sound stage off to one side, is the singer (of a recording you know it should be) not in the middle?

I listened to several PRIRs of other people on the A8 and noticed imbalances often. Plus echoey sounds or harsh sounds etc. That is all because it is not made with your own ears.

So, pairing a PRIR that is not made with your own ears with a HPEQ that is made with your own ears (auto HPEQ) doesn't make that much sense.
What you need to do is the manLOUD HPEQ procedure together with the PRIR you want to "personalise". See the video to manLOUD on the Smyth YT channel.
If there is an imbalance you should notice that during the manLOUD procedure and you can correct this.

 

[Fox1977]

I wrote to James to ask if it was normal that i haven't received anything yet nor heard from UPS. He answered almost straight away, looks like he just forgot to send me the tracking number. My unit was scanned in Paris an hour ago and i'll get it tomorrow !
Interesting fact to notice, it was sent via DHL instead of UPS. After the issues with UPS when the upgraded units shipped back, i guess they decided to change the carrier...
By the way, all the units that were unlocated by UPS eventually reached destination ?

 

[bpinnell]

In reply to Broke's posts, the Realiser is indeed a different beast when using your own PRIRs. But I think the room is the most important. Just like listening to expensive speakers in a poorly treated room is unsatisfactory, the measured room has a big impact on Realiser satisfaction. I have a treated listening room with modest speakers (Gallo Reference 3.1), and I use Dirac for correction. The room correction is a must even with the treatments I have. The Realiser right now does not allow one to do a PRIR in a room with room correction but I believe that functionality will be coming to the A16 in the future. When I use the Realiser, I use a PRIR I made in my treated room without Dirac, but have devised a way to apply Dirac to the PRIR so that I effectively hear the same correction as if it were baked into the PRIR at the time of capture. If you truly compare the Realiser to the room/speakers that it captures, you will hear that the Realiser just can't capture that last 5% of depth and realism, but that 95% is wonderful and allows me to get close enough to my listening room when I am not there.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I wrote to James to ask if it was normal that i haven't received anything yet nor heard from UPS. He answered almost straight away, looks like he just forgot to send me the tracking number. My unit was scanned in Paris an hour ago and i'll get it tomorrow !
Interesting fact to notice, it was sent via DHL instead of UPS. After the issues with UPS when the upgraded units shipped back, i guess they decided to change the carrier...
By the way, all the units that were unlocated by UPS eventually reached destination ?

No. Mine is still MIA. Last communication was from James that UPS had initiated an "investigation" which would take "8-10 business days". That communication was on July 31.

 

[Fox1977]

No. Mine is still MIA. Last communication was from James that UPS had initiated an "investigation" which would take "8-10 business days". That communication was on July 31.

Looks like you’re having a bad karma this year
I hope for you that it will all come to a happy ending very soon, it’s been going on since January !!

 

[cukis350]

Hello Guys, i have not been following this thread for awhile so just want to know if anyone that preordered their A16 has gotten it yet? I've email James but no reply from his end.
Thanks,

Cuki

 

[Got the Shakes]

Hello Guys, i have not been following this thread for awhile so just want to know if anyone that preordered their A16 has gotten it yet? I've email James but no reply from his end.
Thanks,

Cuki

Preorders will start shipping after Kickstarter orders are filled. Best anyone can tell they are at Kickstarter order 205 or so of about 330 orders they have to fill.