[Dixter]

I decided to test a DVD in simple stereo (the English “No Offence” series, low budget but excellent series) without any of the Dolby/DTS usual suspects. Just being curious.
With the 24ch + upmix I was in for a surprise :
- The “PA” showed – when action/music occurred – 19 activated channels…
- The “Audio meter display” showed me exactly 19 activated channels as well…

I can assure you that what I heard was definitely not stereo !
I thought upmix was up to max 16 ch.

Can someone help me understand ???

Edit : yet somehow the A16 recognizes it as Dolby Audio and no Dolby logo either on the disc or on the packaging. It is sold on the web site as a Dolby 2.0.

That is pretty much what I have been seeing with the upmix too... and it sounds great... I can't explain it... but it works...

 

[Grue]

[24ch bass management]
What exactly is the problem?

Problem is, whatever bass management setting I change, I do not get more bass.
But I need more time with the device to dig into this. I'm going to get pair of Genelec G Ones on Saturday and I might have time next week to measure a simple 5.1 setup to experiment more.

 

[steefdebruijn]

Therefore I recommend creating flat HPEQs as a basis because this is done via "one click" as opposed to the complicated autoHPEQ process.
That's the difference to the video where they take an auto HPEQ as starting point. Everything else is a good presentation of the method.

why not make one autoHPEQ, copy it to external card and duplicate and rename the files? With appropriate names it is also easier to identify them for recording and using the manLOUD curves.

 

[audiohobbit]

Probably sounds like a good idea, although I'm not sure if this works, we have to try it.
The reason is that the file name on the external SD card has nothing to do with the internal naming of the A16.
With the first Firmwares the "names" that you could see inside the Realiser where User and Room (PRIR) or headphone (HPEQ) plus date and time. If you had several HPEQs of same user and headphone with those names not changed in the setup before making the HPEQ then you could only discern them by date and time.
If you wrote the file to the SD card, the file got a name with time and date included BUT it was the date and time when the file was written to the SD card, not the date and time when the file was created in the Realiser (and what you can see in the Realiser display).
If you open such a file on the PC (best with a Hex Editor) you see that it's basically binary but the header is normal text, that includes the real date and time when the HPEQ or PRIR was create and the user name and room or headphone name, all those strings that are displayed in the A16.
I asked Stephen then if I can change these strings in the file on the PC and load it back to the Realiser, so I can better discern my files, but he said that's not possible because the files include a hash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_hash_function
This is a like a checksum with which data integrity can be checked. So if you change something in that file the hash would be different and the data corrupted.

Therefore Stephen implemented the functionality to change user, sound room and headphone names after the creation of the files inside the Realiser, which I proposed and he thought this was a good idea and seems that it was easy to implement and comes in really handy.
He also changed the file naming when a file is written to SD card. It now comprises of the original date and time and the date and time when written to the SD card as far as I remember, have to look it up at home.
So still the only thing you can change is this file name on your PC. I don't know what happens if you do this and copy it back to the Realiser. Could be that the internal file name comprises only of the original date, time and names (user, headphone etc.) and they're extracted from the file header, so it would be a duplicate and I don't know how the Realiser reacts to that.
So we have to try and/or I could ask Stephen.

On the other hand I'm not sure if an auto HPEQ is better as a starting point for a manLOUD HPEQ when the goal is to "personalise" a foreign PRIR.
Let's assume as a very simplified example the foreign PRIR is +6 dB at 5 kHz, but your ears need it at 0 dB. With a flat HPEQ as basis you need to turn down the 5 kHz by 6 dB.
Let's further assume the auto HPEQ has to bump up your headphone at 5 kHz by 4 dB to get a flat response. If you take this as a starting point you need to turn down the 5 kHz by 10 dB now. I think the more EQing is made the more deteriorating this could be on sound quality.
But it could also be the other way round. I think this can be completely arbitrary and no one can say if an auto HPEQ or a flat HPEQ is better for this particular PRIR to personalise them for your ears.
So I think it makes no difference which one you take, therefore I still deem it easier to generate a bunch of flat HPEQs inside the Realiser than to create an auto HPEQ, where you need to plug in the mics, put them in your ears, don't forget the wirstband etc. and then copy it to the SD card, then to your PC, multiply them on your PC and copy them back to your Realiser etc...

Maybe I'm wrong here and Stephen would say otherwise?

- The “Audio meter display” showed me exactly 19 activated channels as well…

I suppose the meter showed all 24 ch but only 19 showed some activity?
When upmixing to 9.1.6 the meter shows all channels but there is never any activity on the front wides, since they are not used by the upmixer.
So wich channels are those that do not show any activity when upmixing to 24ch (15.1.8 in that case?).
5 channels not active I find a bit odd. I expected an even number. One could also solo these channels and listen to them for some time to hear if there's any activity at all.

 

[Monkey King]

Does anyone know how to output the PRIR sweeps to the SPDIF digital outputs? I'm using active speakers with only digital inputs so I can't use the analog CH1-16 outputs.

The FAQ suggests this is possible ("Sweeps can also be directed to the 16-ch analog outputs, the SPDIF or the mono speaker/tactile output.") but I can't find any reference to it in the menus or manual.

 

[Om ma Ni]

Got my upgraded A16 today..firmware 1.95 dated 15 June 2020, booted successfully etc..will need to dig more when available time..
Hope everyone will receive late or soon their A16 so the whole community will be able to really start at same level to enjoy this unique product..

 

[sander99]

Does anyone know how to output the PRIR sweeps to the SPDIF digital outputs? I'm using active speakers with only digital inputs so I can't use the analog CH1-16 outputs.

The FAQ suggests this is possible ("Sweeps can also be directed to the 16-ch analog outputs, the SPDIF or the mono speaker/tactile output.") but I can't find any reference to it in the menus or manual.

The FAQ is outdated. Sweeps are only available over the 16 ch analog outputs.
I wouldn't worry about it. One extra da and ad conversion won't be the bottleneck. You will just need to find an ad converter.

By the way: Smyth seems to have a special version of the A16 with multichannel channel AES/EBU outputs:

New on for-tune web site, Germany : https://for-tune.de/produkt/smyth-research-a162u-realiser/
A16 is available in the following versions : (from EUR 4.750 to EUR 5.410)
A16 : 16-channel analog version with asymmetrical analog inputs / outputs on mini-jack sockets : EUR 4.750
A16PA : 16-channel analog version with symmetrical analog inputs / outputs distributed over 4 D-Sub connectors in the arrangement of the Tascam pins : EUR 5.120
A16AES : 16-channel digital version in AES format with sampling frequency conversion distributed over 2 x D-Sub sockets in the arrangement of Tacam pins : EUR 5.120
A1632 : 32-channel digital version in AES format with conversion of the sampling frequency distributed over 4 D-Sub sockets in the arrangement of the Tascam pins :EUR 5.410

The shipping schedule mentioned is : 10 days...and PayPal is accepted !
But somewhere else on the web site they say :
The new A16 Pro versions should be available from mid-August onwards. We are of course delighted to accept pre-orders now : https://for-tune.de/realiser-a16-jetzt-auch-als-pro-version/

 

[You Gene]

I suppose the meter showed all 24 ch but only 19 showed some activity?
When upmixing to 9.1.6 the meter shows all channels but there is never any activity on the front wides, since they are not used by the upmixer.
So wich channels are those that do not show any activity when upmixing to 24ch (15.1.8 in that case?).
5 channels not active I find a bit odd. I expected an even number. One could also solo these channels and listen to them for some time to hear if there's any activity at all.

First of all this is only a DVD Dolby 2.0 playing. With upmixing "on" and with "SVS 24 ch" on. I have got a meter showing 24 ch with "only" 19 with activity in a 15.1.8 configuration. Missing channels are :
SW / LSC / RSC /LW / RW

If Dixter could also tell us more on his configuration since he has the same unusual but perfect results. We must have received a special edition...

Edit : I used the BBC room for the above test.
When I tried now the Surrey room I got a PA showing me 18 channels only (not 24 on the PA as for the BBC room).
With the Surrey room, 15 channels were active (on 18 showing on PA) when playing the same DVD in a 15.1.8 configuration.

 

[Thomasphoenix98]

’Unbroken’ opening sequence is really impressive with the Realiser.

 

[audiohobbit]

’Unbroken’ opening sequence is really impressive with the Realiser.

Don't know the movie, but I think you mean the bombing scenes in the WWII bomber? This is on the Atmos Demo Disc I have, and yes this is a pretty good Atmos Demo material.

First of all this is only a DVD Dolby 2.0 playing. With upmixing "on" and with "SVS 24 ch" on. I have got a meter showing 24 ch with "only" 19 with activity in a 15.1.8 configuration. Missing channels are :
SW / LSC / RSC /LW / RW

Ok, now it makes sense. The 2.0 explains why the sub is not used. As long as you don't use bass management inside the Realiser, there is no LFE channel in the signal.
This leaves the wides and the side centers that are not used in that constellation.
If you upmix a X.1 signal then the SW will be definitely used.

 

[Thomasphoenix98]

Don't know the movie, but I think you mean the bombing scenes in the WWII bomber? This is on the Atmos Demo Disc I have, and yes this is a pretty good Atmos Demo material.

Ok, now it makes sense. The 2.0 explains why the sub is not used. As long as you don't use bass management inside the Realiser, there is no LFE channel in the signal.
This leaves the wides and the side centers that are not used in that constellation.
If you upmix a X.1 signal then the SW will be definitely used.

Yes the same! One can test speaker positions with it, very good to get a feel of what realiser can do with Atmos.

 

[Dixter]

First of all this is only a DVD Dolby 2.0 playing. With upmixing "on" and with "SVS 24 ch" on. I have got a meter showing 24 ch with "only" 19 with activity in a 15.1.8 configuration. Missing channels are :
SW / LSC / RSC /LW / RW

If Dixter could also tell us more on his configuration since he has the same unusual but perfect results. We must have received a special edition...

Edit : I used the BBC room for the above test.
When I tried now the Surrey room I got a PA showing me 18 channels only (not 24 on the PA as for the BBC room).
With the Surrey room, 15 channels were active (on 18 showing on PA) when playing the same DVD in a 15.1.8 configuration.

When I created my Surrey room I used the populate all function and the A16 created a 18 speaker Room.... even though you choose the 15.1.8 as the starting Room config it will only populate the room with the amount of speakers in the PRIR config that matches the Room.... so the BBC has more speakers in its PRIR config versus the Surrey, even though there are more speakers in the Surrey they don't match the config,so what I did was create a 15.1.8 Room.. let the A16 auto populate the Room from the Surrey Room and that populated the 18 speakers and then I back filled the remaining missing speakers with speakers from the BBC PRIR to finish out the 15.1.8 configuration... so my Surrey is a little different... if you decide to put speakers in the Surrey Room and fill it to 24 ch then you will see those 24 ch on the PA and Meters... just make sure you match the Room config speaker names with the doner PRIR speaker names and you should be good to go....

One of these days I plan on going thru all of the PRIR files that are on the " Share Site " and gather information on those configurations, pick out the best speakers and how they sound and then attempt to create the Frankenstein 15.1.8 Room from the best of the best speakers and how they sound in 24 ch ATMOS..... can't wait to see how that works....

On a different subject.... I have been using the option of screen saver and I see the files it creates and they look OK on my computer but when I try to upload them to Head-fi they won't upload.... is there a trick.... I even tried a different file not related to the Realiser and they upload fine... wonder why I can't get the A16 pics to upload ???

 

[Dixter]

FYI... I was looking at my screen captures again and I have two screen shots that show ALL 24ch upmix speakers are active and playing source material...

 

[Dixter]

For everyone that might want to upload the screen captures on head fi... I just now found out you have to convert the file to jpg.... super easy now...

 

[sander99]

Does anyone know how to output the PRIR sweeps to the SPDIF digital outputs? I'm using active speakers with only digital inputs so I can't use the analog CH1-16 outputs.

The FAQ suggests this is possible ("Sweeps can also be directed to the 16-ch analog outputs, the SPDIF or the mono speaker/tactile output.") but I can't find any reference to it in the menus or manual.

Oh, almost forgot: With the asynchronous PRIR measurement method you don't need the analog outputs, in fact in this case the A16 doesn't need to be connected to the system under measurement at all, only the in-ear-mics need to be connected to the A16. With this method, after setting the A16 in the appropiate mode, you play special files containing sweeps plus additional information and synchronization signals. This mode has already been implemented, only problem is that we haven't got the files yet. (To be continued...)