[mrmac]

Wow!! Pimp my A16...

https://www.facebook.com/1670587523204875/posts/2370126336584320/

 

[dsperber]

Saturday's project: I'm driving down to San Diego to meet with Darin Fong (master of high-end 2-channel stereo home audio locations for PRIR measurement in the San Diego area), to capture a 2-channel stereo PRIR inside my car!

I have a Mercedes with a Harman Kardon sound system that I genuinely love, and the close-in airtight passenger compartment with multiple very close speakers on the dashboard in front of you and also surrounding you produces a unique "giant car stereo" sound that is unique and very very different from that of an open rectangular room with two speakers 12ft in front of you at +/- 30 degrees.

So I'd like to hear 2-channel audio via SVS/headphones just as it sounds when playing inside my car. Hence the goal of getting this PRIR, from my car.

I will use an A8 to do the 2 minute capture (2 channels x 4 sweeps/channel x 12 seconds/sweep), since I can then import that A8 PRIR into the A16.

What's interesting and unique about car audio systems is that it's mostly just the driver listening, from the driver's seat. The listener is not in the center of the car (astride the console), but either on the left in the driver's seat or on the right in the passenger seat. And yet the sound field coming from the dashboard (and door speakers, kick panel speakers, floor speakers, rear speakers, etc. whatever is present) seems to sound very balanced. In fact my settings are +0 for both FADE and BALANCE, and it all sounds great from my driver's seat. Must say something about how they "tune" the audio system, or perhaps maybe it's because of the closed airtight small compartment audio characteristics.

Anyway, listening to music in my car is a treat. And hopefully the result of the PRIR I create with Darin this weekend will duplicate that sound, on both my A8 and A16.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Saturday's project: I'm driving down to San Diego to meet with Darin Fong (master of high-end 2-channel stereo home audio locations for PRIR measurement in the San Diego area), to capture a 2-channel stereo PRIR inside my car!

I have a Mercedes with a Harman Kardon sound system that I genuinely love, and the close-in airtight passenger compartment with multiple very close speakers on the dashboard in front of you and also surrounding you produces a unique "giant car stereo" sound that is unique and very very different from that of an open rectangular room with two speakers 12ft in front of you at +/- 30 degrees.

So I'd like to hear 2-channel audio via SVS/headphones just as it sounds when playing inside my car. Hence the goal of getting this PRIR, from my car.

I will use an A8 to do the 2 minute capture (2 channels x 4 sweeps/channel x 12 seconds/sweep), since I can then import that A8 PRIR into the A16.

What's interesting and unique about car audio systems is that it's mostly just the driver listening, from the driver's seat. The listener is not in the center of the car (astride the console), but either on the left in the driver's seat or on the right in the passenger seat. And yet the sound field coming from the dashboard (and door speakers, kick panel speakers, floor speakers, rear speakers, etc. whatever is present) seems to sound very balanced. In fact my settings are +0 for both FADE and BALANCE, and it all sounds great from my driver's seat. Must say something about how they "tune" the audio system, or perhaps maybe it's because of the closed airtight small compartment audio characteristics.

Anyway, listening to music in my car is a treat. And hopefully the result of the PRIR I create with Darin this weekend will duplicate that sound, on both my A8 and A16.

You and Darrin have to do a Youtube video of you and him driving around San Diego and doing a car karaoke version of "Penny Lane."

 

[audiohobbit]

Thank you Christian, you are a real encyclopedia..
BTW, should we always normalize all the spkrs after capturing and creating a PRIR?
Is there any option to select to make the A16 upmix dolby atmos bluray played in 7.1.4 to 9.1.6?

1. No I'm not. I just am so kind to look it up in the manual for you. With the headline "Bassmanagement for ..." it's not that hard to find...
2. That depends what the volume level was when the PRIR was created. If you for example record many PRIRs with 2 speakers at same distance and volume level then no, otherwise yes I'd say. Haven't tried it myself so far.
3. The DSU does not use the front wides. For the ceiling speakers I'm not sure if they're upmixed from 4 to 6. I'll see that when I watch SW Ep. VIII next week or so, it hasn Atmos track that specifically says 7.1.4

Also, after capturing and building our own PRIR etc..in the case we want to swap some of our virtual spkrs by new spkrs from a different external PRIR done by someone else, do we need to do a ManLoud EQ to incorporate acoustically these new spkr in our PRIR or is there any other process by the a16 to go through? I mean that will the A16 adapt these new spkr to our PRIR most precisely to our own HRTF automatically?

You can do manLOUD only for one of the 3 front speakers or a combination of them, because they are the most important. So they all should come from the same PRIR I'd say. Mixing the fronts from different PRIRs is not a good idea. If any other speakers are taken from a different PRIRs then the manLOUD or HRTF should still match best for the front speakers. You can't do it for all speakers. And no the Realiser doesn't do and can't do anything automatically here.
So if you for example take the 3 front speakers of the Surrey room, but all the other speakers from the BBC room (just in theory, this wouldn't make much sense) the manLOUD should be made for the Surrey front speakers. It can't be done anyway for the other speakers.
A subwoofer you can always take from another PRIR without any adaptation needed because the low bass is not influenced by the HRTF.
So let's say you have (and I think you do) only 2 small bookshelf speakers: You ideally create a PRIR of those for L and R, and best would be to look at one of them and measure this as center. You take those 3 speakers into a listening room, add a subwoofer from the BBC or the Surrey room or you can use Direct Bass and all other speakers you had to take also from BBC or Surrey. In this case you do an auto HPEQ because the front speakers are measured with your ears. You have to live with the fact that the other speakers (surround) will sound different then. You cna't do much about it.
For the surrounds ist should not be that important, for the front wides it's debatable. Even for the surrounds you'll notice a difference in timbre. I think you don't notice it that much for the ceiling speakers.
So with your 2 bookshelves it would be best to record them several times in several PRIRs to get correct sounding surrounds, see the pictures on my last post.
And if you do several takes for several PRIRs you don't have to unplug and replug the A16 output all the time. One can just reassign the outputs 1 and 2 to the different speaker labels.

OMG..bass management is so complicated..have no idea how i m gonna make it through again...

It's not more complicated as in any AVR. You have to have a sub in your PRIR or you can use direct bass, select a cutoff frequency and set which speakers are small.
However it's a bit different for Atmos and PCM rooms. For the PCM I think you autmatically set all speakers to small when activating Bass management.

When you use a virtual subwoofer from another room or Direct Bass you have to set the gain of the subwoofer, so that the Bass is not too low or high in volume. You have to do this by ear, since you can't measure it.

On LFE boost (LFE +10 dB): It's a bit difficult. I think for bitstream signals (Dolby only at the moment) it hast to be activated. For PCM it depends what your source does. At the moment my Blu Ray Players convert DTS to PCM and I think they already do the LFE boost (but I'm not 100% sure) so for the PCM room LFE+10 is deactivated.

What's interesting and unique about car audio systems is that it's mostly just the driver listening, from the driver's seat. The listener is not in the center of the car (astride the console), but either on the left in the driver's seat or on the right in the passenger seat. And yet the sound field coming from the dashboard (and door speakers, kick panel speakers, floor speakers, rear speakers, etc. whatever is present) seems to sound very balanced. In fact my settings are +0 for both FADE and BALANCE

Well that's just because there is a DSP that adds delay to the left speakers, and also attenuate this and they surely are EQed too. That is standard nowadays in good car stereos. But it works only for one seat correctly. You often can choose in the setup driver, front or rear passenger, or all. For all passengers etc. it's always a compromise.

 

[Dixter]

Anyway, listening to music in my car is a treat. And hopefully the result of the PRIR I create with Darin this weekend will duplicate that sound, on both my A8 and A16.

More to do with how the speakers are mounted and damped with respect to the cockpit and its materials... being surrounded by various angles of glass helps the illusion too... think of a Sennheiser HD820 as being your MB...
Might even be a great option for you to get a good PRIR of your MB and then do a HPEQ and a careful manLoud with the HD820... you might be in nirvana

When your with Darin ask him a couple questions for us.... 1) is he getting a A16 2) does he plan on making his OOYH files available for the A16 owners... best of luck... don't forget to tell us all how your trip goes...

I don't think I need to remind you, but just in case... don't forget to bring the A8 with the HDMI option... as it outputs the correct PRIR for the porting to the A16...

 

[audiohobbit]

don't forget to bring the A8 with the HDMI option... as it outputs the correct PRIR for the porting to the A16...

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[Dixter]

Can you elaborate on this?

The original A8 units didn't come with the HDMI option... once they released the HDMI version of the A8 they went with a different file naming... the older files from the A8 don't port over to the A16....
In order to get those files to work correctly with the A16 you need to port the older files into the newer A8 unit (HDMI)...
then when the file is output again then the naming of the file gets corrected and that new file can then be ported to the A16...
The naming of the files from the A8 manual...page 7 (User manual for firmware dated 3 August 2011)

" 6. Rev. 2.0 file format (PRIR20XX.SVS, HPEQ20XX.SVS), enabling future enhancements. "

A while back when the shared files were moved I ported the older files into my A8 HDMI and uploaded them so they are now ready for everyone to use with their own A16... this was mentioned here many many pages back...

 

[audiohobbit]

Ok, understood. Of course.

 

[esimms86]

Saturday's project: I'm driving down to San Diego to meet with Darin Fong (master of high-end 2-channel stereo home audio locations for PRIR measurement in the San Diego area), to capture a 2-channel stereo PRIR inside my car!

I have a Mercedes with a Harman Kardon sound system that I genuinely love, and the close-in airtight passenger compartment with multiple very close speakers on the dashboard in front of you and also surrounding you produces a unique "giant car stereo" sound that is unique and very very different from that of an open rectangular room with two speakers 12ft in front of you at +/- 30 degrees.

So I'd like to hear 2-channel audio via SVS/headphones just as it sounds when playing inside my car. Hence the goal of getting this PRIR, from my car.

I will use an A8 to do the 2 minute capture (2 channels x 4 sweeps/channel x 12 seconds/sweep), since I can then import that A8 PRIR into the A16.

What's interesting and unique about car audio systems is that it's mostly just the driver listening, from the driver's seat. The listener is not in the center of the car (astride the console), but either on the left in the driver's seat or on the right in the passenger seat. And yet the sound field coming from the dashboard (and door speakers, kick panel speakers, floor speakers, rear speakers, etc. whatever is present) seems to sound very balanced. In fact my settings are +0 for both FADE and BALANCE, and it all sounds great from my driver's seat. Must say something about how they "tune" the audio system, or perhaps maybe it's because of the closed airtight small compartment audio characteristics.

Anyway, listening to music in my car is a treat. And hopefully the result of the PRIR I create with Darin this weekend will duplicate that sound, on both my A8 and A16.

Sounds like an interesting idea. I probably would choose to spend the time and money on getting a PRIR done on an ultra high end stereo setup but then I don’t have your AIX and other PRIRs. Are you going to have Darin make you your own OOYH preset? It might be cool to have it on your laptop when you travel.

As an aside, I wonder if Darin is a Kickstarter backer. I’d almost be surprised if he wasn’t. Heck, he might even have an A16 by now. And yeah, I know that OOYH doesn’t support as many channels as the A16 allows.

 

[dsperber]

Sounds like an interesting idea. I probably would choose to spend the time and money on getting a PRIR done on an ultra high end stereo setup but then I don’t have your AIX and other PRIRs.

I have on a number of occasions thought about going down there for exactly such an ultra high-end stereo measurement session, but always decided it probably was just a "novelty" I could live without, relying simply on the L/R B&W speakers of the AIX room to satisfy my only very occasional 2-channel stereo needs via SVS/headphones. My 99.9% home audio usage via SVS/headphones is to watch TV/movie content from HDTV or streaming or disc sources.

It's actually only in my car that I "bring my music with me" via FLAC files played on my Cowon J3 into the AUX input of my car where 99.9% of my CD audio gets to be heard. Next most frequent music usage is again via Cowon J3 through my "conventional" Shure SRH940 phones which sound terrific, when I'm on a plane traveling. Otherwise, I just don't spend time at home listening to CD audio music, other than that first pass after purchasing a CD to decide which tracks (or the entire album) to rip to FLAC files, so that I can actually play them in my car or while traveling via J3.

So tomorrow's project is honestly also kind of just a "novelty" experiment, to see if I can recreate my beloved car sound experience in my bedroom, via SVS/headphones. And how will it sound via Stax SR-009? Will I get that same "airtight sealed compartment" sensation?

Now if I actually had a real high-end home theater or "music room", with real ultra high-end speakers and electronics so that it sounded like heaven, well maybe my music listening/usage habits would be very different.

Are you going to have Darin make you your own OOYH preset? It might be cool to have it on your laptop when you travel.

To be honest, I know nothing about OOYH. I will discuss this with hem tomorrow.

As an aside, I wonder if Darin is a Kickstarter backer. I’d almost be surprised if he wasn’t. Heck, he might even have an A16 by now.

Don't know. But I do know that for sure he does not have an A16 nor has he yet had contact or experience with one. He's bringing his own HDMI A8.

 

[Dixter]

should be an interesting experiment as you are going to be capturing a stereo PRIR with several speakers ... left/right + front/rear... but when you get back home and port the A8 PRIR into the A16 you can use the A8 PRIR as native left/right + front/rear and also build a new virtual A16 9.1.6 PRIR from the A8 PRIR.... what does come to mind though with the process... in theory anyway, it seems the correct method to capture the PRIR would have you in the middle of the car... as in stradeling the console for the measurements... and I wonder if you could capture a center channel also... so it could end up as Left/Center/Right + Front/Rear can't wait to hear how it progresses...

 

[esimms86]

I have on a number of occasions thought about going down there for exactly such an ultra high-end stereo measurement session, but always decided it probably was just a "novelty" I could live without, relying simply on the L/R B&W speakers of the AIX room to satisfy my only very occasional 2-channel stereo needs via SVS/headphones. My 99.9% home audio usage via SVS/headphones is to watch TV/movie content from HDTV or streaming or disc sources.

It's actually only in my car that I "bring my music with me" via FLAC files played on my Cowon J3 into the AUX input of my car where 99.9% of my CD audio gets to be heard. Next most frequent music usage is again via Cowon J3 through my "conventional" Shure SRH940 phones which sound terrific, when I'm on a plane traveling. Otherwise, I just don't spend time at home listening to CD audio music, other than that first pass after purchasing a CD to decide which tracks (or the entire album) to rip to FLAC files, so that I can actually play them in my car or while traveling via J3.

So tomorrow's project is honestly also kind of just a "novelty" experiment, to see if I can recreate my beloved car sound experience in my bedroom, via SVS/headphones. And how will it sound via Stax SR-009? Will I get that same "airtight sealed compartment" sensation?

Now if I actually had a real high-end home theater or "music room", with real ultra high-end speakers and electronics so that it sounded like heaven, well maybe my music listening/usage habits would be very different.

To be honest, I know nothing about OOYH. I will discuss this with hem tomorrow.

Don't know. But I do know that for sure he does not have an A16 nor has he yet had contact or experience with one. He's bringing his own HDMI A8.

BTW, he could also make you an OOYH preset from your AIX PRIR. Though OOYH works better for some people than for others, a preset made from your own PRIR would be almost ideal. Add in a Chord Mojo connected via USB to your laptop and then you’ve got a great on the road listening setup. Rip a movie or two or three to your hard drive and you’re literally good to go. The only thing missing would be the low end output(OOYH is a little bass shy).

 

[teacher1000]

I've had my A16 for a couple of months now, and I have to say this is an amazing machine, even if it is awkward as hell to set up and use.
I still haven't got a perfect capture of my own speakers, but good enough. Living in an apartment where I could never turn up the volume.. well now I can. In addition, the background noise was always irritating. Not anymore.

I find myself listening to far more music than ever before, and I can easily forget I have headphones on when watching TV

I am so happy I gambled on the kickstarter 3 years ago

 

[Om ma Ni]

So let's say you have (and I think you do) only 2 small bookshelf speakers: You ideally create a PRIR of those for L and R, and best would be to look at one of them and measure this as center. You take those 3 speakers into a listening room, add a subwoofer from the BBC or the Surrey room or you can use Direct Bass and all other speakers you had to take also from BBC or Surrey. In this case you do an auto HPEQ because the front speakers are measured with your ears. You have to live with the fact that the other speakers (surround) will sound different then. You cna't do much about it.
For the surrounds ist should not be that important, for the front wides it's debatable. Even for the surrounds you'll notice a difference in timbre. I think you don't notice it that much for the ceiling speakers.
So with your 2 bookshelves it would be best to record them several times in several PRIRs to get correct sounding surrounds, see the pictures on my last post.
And if you do several takes for several PRIRs you don't have to unplug and replug the A16 output all the time. One can just reassign the outputs 1 and 2 to the different speaker labels.

Well i have a problem atm..: done a PRIR, run the test which was ok with the different localization of the virtual spkrs etc..then started the Manspk EQ on my initial AutoEQ with my ears to try to get the best from my capture..
After saving the manSpk (press HP button) i wanted to save this manspk EQ to my sd so went to the cycled HPEQ folder but couldn t find it?? Noticed also that this folder was already full with 14 files.. Will it supposed to recycle the temporary files and save automatically the last one? Bit confusing for me to know where is my new manspk EQ atm?

 

[Om ma Ni]

Has everyone experienced it before..? my hp are the HD800 and i noticed these details regarding the different HPEq done on my PRIR :
the general sound signature start very brightly with a FlatEQ ..bit less with AutoEQ and still persist with a properly accurate ManSpk.For instance, the high frequencies made from the 'sss' of the dialogue appears to the point of making sibilant noise in my Hp even with the Manspk EQ.. i am surprised bc the PRIR has been done with a pair of speakers which are not bright at all but more soft on the high Freq in a decent acoustic damped room..and i was very happy of the accuracy of my manspkEQ too...