[Kelvin Lee]

anyone knows how much value did smyth declare the parcel value ?

 

[CanMad]

anyone knows how much value did smyth declare the parcel value ?

The value that you pledged on kickstarter

 

[CaptainFunk]

****... I forgot about this. But my UHD BD Player Panasonic 424 has lipsync on board. And my older Oppo 103 also, I think.

I remember now that lipsync was also something I asked the Smyths about and told them it was important and they said they could do it... everyone knows the rest...

Btw. does anyone know how long the KS page be online? Can they just shut it down if they want to (the Smyths and/or KS themselves)?

I actually realised that the sound needs to be delayed, not the picture. I read about this Felston DD740 device but it doesn't seem to be available where I live and I would need to add two more devices to the chain (Digital Audio Delay + Headphone Amp with DAC). Not really ideal and I can't imagine I am the only person having this problem in the future, so hopefully this feature is not too low on their list of priorities. Until I have a fix for this the A16 is pretty much useless for me and I will continue to use my preamp/A8 setup.

Edit: I could of course use the A16 and my preamp, but I don't have enough space in my lowboard. The A8 is much smaller.

Edit: I guess this is the comment audiohobbit was referring to: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...sor/comments?comment=Q29tbWVudC0xNDA5MTE0NQ==

 

[audiohobbit]

Normally picture processing takes more time than audio processing and lip sync feature delays the audio, so what you describe sounds like normal. You need a player with lip sync. My cheap Panasonic 424 has it and I just saw in the manual that the Oppo 103 seems to not having lipsync. Anyway I'm using the Panny for video now only.
With picture processing like frame interpolation etc. the picture delay is usually in the range 50 to 100 ms.
The Realiser A8 has a delay setting for every channel which the A16 is missing at the moment as it seems, but I think you couldn' set it that high, it's not meant for this.


Can you describe your system, player(s), connections, PRIR you use etc.?

Edit: Yes you find the right comment. This was back then when Stephen always said yes we can do this, no problem, and I already thought this would be a lot work to implement.

 

[CaptainFunk]

Can you describe your system, player(s), connections, PRIR you use etc.?.

PS4, Xbox, Apple TV -> A16 via HDMI -> TV

Previously with the A8, all devices were connected to an AV preamp via HDMI and the A8 via line to the preamp. The AV preamp has a function to delay the sound output.

The delay is noticeable with my own PRIRs and the factory PRIRs.

I don't really see an elegant way to solve this other than waiting for an update that might or might not come. I don't really want to invest in workarounds.

 

[audiohobbit]

Well, I think the A16 is worth a few workarounds, but that's my opinion.

One would be this device: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C0NTHO...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

You'll need an external headphone amp though. And since it is analog in/out as it seems, there will be an AD-DA-conversion. I couldn't find this with digital in/out with a quick search.
This box seems to come from the company Lindy, but at the Lindy shop it seems out of stock and at amazon.com seems to be more expensive.
The Felston device, available trough Curt Palme ( http://www.curtpalme.com/FelstonDD740.shtm ) is digital, but even more expensive and you'll need a DAC-Amp.

Or a DSP like mini dsp, but I'm not sure if they a) can do that much delay and b) can do this on both channels at the same time (sometimes delay settings can be relative to one another. With DSPs I'm not sure, it shouldn't be, but with AVRs it usually is, If you set the same distance there for all loudspeakers then no loudspeaker will be delayed for example)

 

[GeorgeA]

....... and I just saw in the manual that the Oppo 103 seems to not having lipsync.

I’ve got an Oppo BDP 103D and it has A/V Sync. As part of Other Audio Processing Settings in the user manual, p. 73:

A/V Sync: Allows you to add a slight delay to the audio so it is synchronized to the video. You may use the LEFT/RIGHT ARROW buttons on the remote to decrease/increase the audio delay. The delay can be adjusted in 10ms steps and within the range of -100ms to +200ms. The delayed time will be applied to all output terminals including HDMI 1 and 2, Coaxial, Optical, and 7.1 outputs.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Well, I think the A16 is worth a few workarounds, but that's my opinion. this device: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C0NTHO...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

You'll need an external headphone amp though. And since it is analog in/out as it seems, there will be an AD-DA-conversion. I couldn't find this with digital in/out with a quick search.
This box seems to come from the company Lindy, but at the Lindy shop it seems out of stock and at amazon.com seems to be more expensive.
The Felston device, available trough Curt Palme ( http://www.curtpalme.com/FelstonDD740.shtm ) is digital, but even more expensive and you'll need a DAC-Amp.

Or a DSP like mini dsp, but I'm not sure if they a) can do that much delay and b) can do this on both channels at the same time (sometimes delay settings can be relative to one another. With DSPs I'm not sure, it shouldn't be, but with AVRs it usually is, If you set the same distance there for all loudspeakers then no loudspeaker will be delayed for example)

I'm not sure how that device helps. It's the audio that's being delayed, so it lags the picture. That device delays the audio even further. What's needed is something that delays the video, so the audio can re-sync with it.

BTW, this is another disappointment from the Smyths. The A16 apparently has a latency issue, and the lack of such an issue was a major selling point for the A8, and one of the reasons some suggested that the whole emulation thing needed its own separate box rather than running on a PC.

 

[Juy777]

I'm not sure how that device helps. It's the audio that's being delayed, so it lags the picture. That device delays the audio even further. What's needed is something that delays the video, so the audio can re-sync with it.

BTW, this is another disappointment from the Smyths. The A16 apparently has a latency issue, and the lack of such an issue was a major selling point for the A8, and one of the reasons some suggested that the whole emulation thing needed its own separate box rather than running on a PC.

Yea i can confirm this, i also get delayed audio, if i had to guess it is in the range of 2-3 frames which equals 80-120ms, thats significantly more then the advertised 32ms latency. I cant watch any movies with this delay.
Any equipment further delaying the audio would not help imho. Since i planned on using the A 16 to watch movies with a BD player but also using my tv set top box and the occasional Netflix via PC (to decode Atmos you need the Netflix App installed on PC) it would not be feasable to buy several external sync boxes for all those different sources. A built in AV sync funcion for the A16 should be mandatory.

 

[CaptainFunk]

Yea i can confirm this, i also get delayed audio, if i had to guess it is in the range of 2-3 frames which equals 80-120ms, thats significantly more then the advertised 32ms latency. I cant watch any movies with this delay.
Any equipment further delaying the audio would not help imho. Since i planned on using the A 16 to watch movies with a BD player but also using my tv set top box and the occasional Netflix via PC (to decode Atmos you need the Netflix App installed on PC) it would not be feasable to buy several external sync boxes for all those different sources. A built in AV sync funcion for the A16 should be mandatory.

You are correct, the audio is actually late and not the picture. I thought it is the other way when I was testing last night but I just used an audio sync test video on YouTube to confirm this. If they can’t fix the latency then this is a huge disappointment, delaying the picture would work for movies but not for gaming where you have a direct input.

 

[Got the Shakes]

When I got my A16 one of the things I was concerned about was possible audio and video being out of sync especially since game mode wasn’t included. I’ve been using it for a month and it hasn’t been perceivable to me. Like for example I play a lot of MLB The Show and if there was a big delay in the sound processing I would expect the sound of the ball coming off the bat to be noticeably late, but surprisingly it is at least to my eyes and ears close enough to normal to not notice any sort of delay.

 

[audiohobbit]

I'm sorry, CaptainFunk wrote:

I actually realised that the sound needs to be delayed, not the picture.

I just reacted to this.

I’ve got an Oppo BDP 103D and it has A/V Sync. As part of Other Audio Processing Settings in the user manual, p. 73:

Seems you're right. Maybe I had an older manual or overlooked it somehow.

And as one can read the Oppo has also up to 100 ms NEGATIVE A/V-Sync, this would be needed when the audio is delayed I think.

 

[CaptainFunk]

I'm sorry, CaptainFunk wrote:

I just reacted to this.

.

Yes, as I mentioned I was convinced it is the other way around yesterday. Thanks a lot for your suggestions!

 

[audiohobbit]

My projector JVC X5900 (RS-something... in the US) with Frame Interpolation (low mode) active seems to delay the picture already about 80-100 ms. Thats the lipsync I set in the AVR resp. Pana-Player.
So maybe it will just be ok with the A16. I'll see. (I'm german, but watch and listen to english content, which is the majority, in the original english sound. And german movies in german obviously. I do care about lipsync and am relatively sensitive to it. With a big screen where the mouths of the actors are as large as my hand or so, you notice immediately if there's s.th. wrong.)

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yea i can confirm this, i also get delayed audio, if i had to guess it is in the range of 2-3 frames which equals 80-120ms, thats significantly more then the advertised 32ms latency. I cant watch any movies with this delay.
Any equipment further delaying the audio would not help imho. Since i planned on using the A 16 to watch movies with a BD player but also using my tv set top box and the occasional Netflix via PC (to decode Atmos you need the Netflix App installed on PC) it would not be feasable to buy several external sync boxes for all those different sources. A built in AV sync funcion for the A16 should be mandatory.

If not fixed, it's a deal breaker for me. I've been thinking about buying one next year with my tax refund check but now it looks like I should look into other purchases.

The list of disappointments, and not delivering on promised features just keeps growing, to wit:

1. No way of outputting the measuring signal via digital outputs.
2. No way of using one analog output to conveniently do a one speaker PRIR
3. No vertical headtracking
4. No DTS-X or Auro 3D now or possibly ever.
5. No Illusonic Upmixer
6. No functional Realiser Exchange
7. No studios, audio stores to serve as providers for PRIRs
8. Latency issues which undermine the primary raison d'etre for an A16--To realistically render the advanced formats seamlessly
9. Tone deaf customer service as witnessed by the people who still haven't gotten the extra headtracker they ordered and paid for
10. The utterly horseshit way they're treating they earliest and most loyal customers--The kickstarter backers and preorders.
11. No Web interface or Webapp.

I could just imagine walking into a high audio shop with an A16 and 16 patch cords, and/or asking if it would be possible to move their speakers around, or needing to re=plug the output cable if I wanted to capture a 16 channel set up from a single speaker--all without having the two ear mics not shift position. And even if I overcome all those obstacles, I'll still have 120 msec of latency.

This looks like a perfectly Rube Goldbergian product to me. Maybe they can fix it. Until they do my checkbook stays in my pocket.