Sep 13, 2019 at 7:27 AM Post #6,391 of 16,949
Just send this list of yours to James. We don't know if it helps but worth a try...
If I had to pay the full 4000 credit units I'd also wait as you will do.

Only if i was in a situation like 5 years ago when I had to move from an apartment without neighbors to one with neighbors (and thin walls...). Back then the Realiser A8 was the only product that really fulfilled my wishes to realistically recreate my sound system vie headphones. Without the realiser I had to give up my hobbies. And back then I paid a bit more than 3000 euros already for the A8.
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 8:06 AM Post #6,392 of 16,949
Just for comparison, the A8 has a latency of 16 ms. In this state, the A16 is pretty much useless to me and it is unclear if it’s ever going to get fixed. I am guessing that a lot of people will be disappointed with the latency, especially people who want to use it for gaming.
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 8:27 AM Post #6,393 of 16,949
If not fixed, it's a deal breaker for me. I've been thinking about buying one next year with my tax refund check but now it looks like I should look into other purchases.

The list of disappointments, and not delivering on promised features just keeps growing, to wit:

1. No way of outputting the measuring signal via digital outputs.
2. No way of using one analog output to conveniently do a one speaker PRIR
3. No vertical headtracking
4. No DTS-X or Auro 3D now or possibly ever.
5. No Illusonic Upmixer
6. No functional Realiser Exchange
7. No studios, audio stores to serve as providers for PRIRs
8. Latency issues which undermine the primary raison d'etre for an A16--To realistically render the advanced formats seamlessly
9. Tone deaf customer service as witnessed by the people who still haven't gotten the extra headtracker they ordered and paid for
10. The utterly horse**** way they're treating they earliest and most loyal customers--The kickstarter backers and preorders.
11. No Web interface or Webapp.

I could just imagine walking into a high audio shop with an A16 and 16 patch cords, and/or asking if it would be possible to move their speakers around, or needing to re=plug the output cable if I wanted to capture a 16 channel set up from a single speaker--all without having the two ear mics not shift position. And even if I overcome all those obstacles, I'll still have 120 msec of latency.

This looks like a perfectly Rube Goldbergian product to me. Maybe they can fix it. Until they do my checkbook stays in my pocket.

This post should go on the Smyths' Facebook page, IMHO. I think they pay more attention to what appears there, as opposed to what is said here.
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 8:53 AM Post #6,394 of 16,949
Just for comparison, the A8 has a latency of 16 ms. In this state, the A16 is pretty much useless to me and it is unclear if it’s ever going to get fixed. I am guessing that a lot of people will be disappointed with the latency, especially people who want to use it for gaming.

What’s weird is I’ve been using it for gaming for the past month and haven’t noticed any large amounts of latency. Some of the games I play, like MLB The Show it should be really easy to notice since if the sound of the ball hitting the bat was delayed 80-100ms it would be jarring. Haven’t noticed any issues in shooters or any movies I’ve watched either.
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 8:58 AM Post #6,395 of 16,949
What’s weird is I’ve been using it for gaming for the past month and haven’t noticed any large amounts of latency. Some of the games I play, like MLB The Show it should be really easy to notice since if the sound of the ball hitting the bat was delayed 80-100ms it would be jarring. Haven’t noticed any issues in shooters or any movies I’ve watched either.

Maybe your TV has a latency of 100 ms then? My Sharp TV has a latency of around 50 ms, so it is really noticeable. It all depends on the TV/projector you are using.
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 9:06 AM Post #6,396 of 16,949
Maybe your TV has a latency of 100 ms then? My Sharp TV has a latency of around 50 ms, so it is really noticeable. It all depends on the TV/projector you are using.

It’s not that. I have a LG OLED with a latency of ~15ms in game mode.
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 9:14 AM Post #6,399 of 16,949
Interesting. Maybe it has to do with the 1.05 firmware? I guess you have 1.02? Can someone with latency issues also check their firmware version?

I do have 1.02. My unit shipped with some preproduction firmware, version 0.86 I think and I never messed with that. I thought that Smyth said there was going to be around 30ms of latency with the A16 out of the box. That kind of lines up with what I’ve seen since while not great for competitive gaming, it’s still in the range where there wouldn’t be really noticeable latency between the audio and video.

Edit: It would make sense that it’s a firmware issue. While I’ve probably had my A16 longer than most people, there have been enough others that have received their units in the past few weeks that didn’t notice an issue and I bet they all either shipped with 1.02 or are on 1.02 due to that being the most recent firmware version on the Smyth Research website.
 
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Sep 13, 2019 at 9:33 AM Post #6,400 of 16,949
I got delayed audio and i am running 1.05 Aug 27 firmware.

I do have 1.02. My unit shipped with some preproduction firmware, version 0.86 I think and I never messed with that. I thought that Smyth said there was going to be around 30ms of latency with the A16 out of the box. That kind of lines up with what I’ve seen since while not great for competitive gaming, it’s still in the range where there wouldn’t be really noticeable latency between the audio and video.

Edit: It would make sense that it’s a firmware issue. While I’ve probably had my A16 longer than most people, there have been enough others that have received their units in the past few weeks that didn’t notice an issue and I bet they all either shipped with 1.02 or are on 1.02 due to that being the most recent firmware version on the Smyth Research website.

Interesting, thanks for checking. 1.05 definitely seems to be the culprit here, getting my hopes up a bit that it can be fixed. But it would be good to know why people have 1.05 on their units in the first place.

Edit: Maybe this bug is the reason they haven’t published the update on the website?
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 9:38 AM Post #6,401 of 16,949
I think they pay more attention to what appears there, as opposed to what is said here.
You don't really think that one of them is reading this thread, do you?
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 9:39 AM Post #6,402 of 16,949
Slow and steady... But it looks like I've run into what is likely an insurmountable problem. I will not be able to proceed until a firmware fix is produced.

I finally have gotten started trying to migrate my relevant A8 PRIR/HPEQ files over to the A16. First thing to know is that the microSD card folders are definitely PRIRS and HPEQS (not PRIR and HPEQ), and they must be sub-folders within the parent REALISER folder (in the root of the card). And of course the file names of the PRIR and HPEQ files inside the sub-folders must be in the same 8.3 form as they were with the SD card for the A8 (formatted FAT), even though the microSD card is formatted FAT32 and can support long file names.

The problem is that my PRIR files from AIX will not convert to A16 format. It gets started, and the fuel gauge gets a bit of green, as if it's running fine. And then it just stops and goes back to the previous screen, with no error message or indication of failure. However failure is indeed what apparently happened because there is no PRIR file stored into "permanent storage", and the count of files there remains at 0.

NOTE: these AIX files are all "old format", from the analog-only days before the later firmware change supporting HDMI. So these AIX PRIR files are of the 8.3 file name format PRIR0xxx. And it appears this is the definition of the issue, that NONE of the old-format A8 PRIR0xxx file names will convert to A16 form.

In contrast, both of my A8 HPEQ files convert perfectly and end up in "permanent storage" with a file count of non-zero. One is again "old format" HPEQ0xxx, taken back in 2009 on my analog A8, and the second is "new format" HPEQ2xxx. Both convert successfully.

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Now coincidentally the four PRIR (AIX) files I actually was trying to convert (and all four of them failed to convert) were all manually "corrected" by Stephen Smyth many years ago a few days after Lorr had taken my PRIR measurements at AIX. When Lorr was reviewing the settings at home later that night he noticed that he had made an error in setting the angles in the A8 corresponding to the actual speaker locations in all four of these PRIR files.

Turns out the PRIR can be "corrected" (by Stephen, anyway) after-the-fact, to manually adjust things in the hex data with the adjusted proper mathematical values based on the corrected speaker angles. So I sent him the four PRIR's as originally produced, and Stephen "corrected" them and returned them to me. These four "corrected" PRIR files are what I've been using for 10 years on m A8 without a problem, and are the four PRIR files I'm now trying to bring over to the A16 and which are apparently causing a problem.

I wouldn't think it is the "corrections" which are responsible for the A16 conversion failure. But just to be sure I tried converting a fifth old-format PRIR file from Mi Casa (another LA sound room which Lorr arranged a PRIR measurement in back in 2009), which is "pure" and untouched exactly as it came out of the original A8 measurements. And it, too, failed to convert. Again, it is another old-format PRIR0xxx file.

Just to see if it really was old-format vs. new-format which was at the heart of the problem, I tried converting a sixth PRIR this one being a new-format PRIR2xxx file. And sure enough, it converted perfectly. Ended up in "permanent storage" so that my PRIR count is now 1.

So, has anybody else successfully converted old-format PRIR0xxx A8 PRIR's? I would think not.

I will have to report this MAJOR DEFECT to Smyth, sending them one or two of the files for them to play with for themselves to see if they can quickly determine what's going on and devise a firmware patch. But for now, looks like I'm dead in the water. Looks like the old analog #0001 A8 is coming back out of its carton!
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 9:43 AM Post #6,403 of 16,949
You don't really think that one of them is reading this thread, do you?

Actually, I don't. The "more than" expression is reflecting a touch of sarcasm, I guess.:)
 
Sep 13, 2019 at 10:21 AM Post #6,404 of 16,949
@dsperber: Maybe I'm wrong but I thought you had two A8s, one older and one newer version with HDMI?
Read the A8 manual on p. 50 "Earlier file formats" - https://smyth-research.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/A8manual_08_2011.pdf
It says that a newer A8 version can read the old files and convert them to the new format (although I'm not sure if it is just renaming, but then they would not advise you to keep the old files if you have an old analog only A8 I think).
So if you got a newer A8 maybe you try this first. If not, maybe send the old PRIRs to someone with a newer A8 and he sends you back the converted files and then you try to import those to the A16. Worth a try I think.


To all those with AV-sync problems: Do you route the picture signal throgh the Realiser (connecting your TV/projector to HDMI out)?
Since both my players have two separate HDMI outs I could try both variants.
 

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