[castleofargh]

I never bought the A8 despite really wanting one, so yes the price makes a big difference for me. it's not even a matter of being able to afford it(lucky me), it's the mental idea that a "simulator" anybody could run on his computer with a 7.1 soundcard, a pair of binaural mics, and a gaming head tracker, shouldn't cost 3000€. I thought it wasn't worth that then, I still don't now.
as for waiting, if I had equivalent alternatives I'd jump on them like 6 years ago. I find it much easier to wait when the choice is having something or having nothing. if an amp manufacturer was making me wait like this, I'd say "ok bye" and go get the next best thing. here the next best thing is very limited and unconvincing(at least for me). so here I am, waiting and not even mad.

 

[jgazal]

a "simulator" anybody could run on his computer with a 7.1 soundcard, a pair of binaural mics, and a gaming head tracker

go get the next best thing.

here the next best thing is very limited and unconvincing (at least for me).

The next best thing is a "simulator" anybody could run on his computer with a sound card, a pair of binaural mics, and a gaming head tracker, is convincing, it can also be used to cancel speakers crosstalk, renders royalties to Princeton, but it costs $5,980. It does not form beams for multiple users, but then the next big thing would be a beam forming sound bar and multiple Realiser units. And it does not decode state of the art surround codecs, but it probably works with ambisonics.

I regret not buying two A16 units when I read about Ambisonics and 32 capsules eigenmicrophones. Anyway I wouldn’t afford it and by the time 32 ambisonics content gets available we would buy cheaper personalized rir head tracking processors.

I just hope Smyth Research develops a way to seamlessly integrate the Realiser A16 with softwares that are able to display stereoscopic threedimensional pictures. I would love to use a BRIR and a VR headset with an stereoscopic picture of the measured room to match vision and audition. I asked them and they did not answer. Perhaps parallax errors, viewing angle of VR headsets and other difficulties with stereoscopic 3D 360 degrees images don’t allow a precise match between real speakers image and virtual speakers sound just yet. I am looking forward to anybody figuring this out.

 

[Fox1977]

My question may sound a bit lame, but what is crosstalk exactly when speaking about speakers, and why is that a problem ?

 

[jgazal]

My question may sound a bit lame, but what is crosstalk exactly when speaking about speakers, and why is that a problem ?

How does BACCH™ 3D Sound work?

 

[castleofargh]

The next best thing is a "simulator" anybody could run on his computer with a sound card, a pair of binaural mics, and a gaming head tracker, is convincing, it can also be used to cancel speakers crosstalk, renders royalties to Princeton, but it cost $5,980. It does not form beams for multiple users, but then the next big thing would be a beam forming sound bar and multiple Realiser units. And it does not decode state of the art surround codecs, but it probably works with ambisonics.

I regret not buying two A16 units when I read about Ambisonics and 32 capsules eigenmicrophones. Anyway I wouldn’t afford it and by the time 32 ambisonics content gets available we would buy cheaper personalized rir head tracking processors.

I just hope Smyth Research develop a way to seamlessly integrate the Realiser A16 with softwares that are able to display stereoscopic threedimensional pictures. I would love to use a BRIR and a VR headset with an stereoscopic picture of the measured room to match vision and audition. I asked them and they did not answer. Perhaps paralaxe errors, viewing angle of VR headsets and other difficulties with stereoscopic 3D 360 degrees images don’t allow a precise match between real speakers image and virtual speakers sound just yet. I am looking forward to anybody figuring this out.

yup the price of Bacch was a deal killer for me, then Mac isn't my world(ok when going for such expensive stuff it would be trivial to add a second hand mac). also the head tracking with webcam wouldn't be my weapon of choice, for some weird reason(or not?) I enjoy music more in a low light environment with webcam tracking there is a direct and logical correlation between refresh rate and luminosity. in a well lite room it's a very tracking method, even if a little processing hungry. maybe with some infrared light source I could get low light and good FPS, but I didn't follow up on those questions after I saw Smyth going for multiple tracking methods at once.

 

[illram]

So if I had two passive floorstanders (Polk Monitor 70's, had them forever) that I wanted to keep in my setup for non-headphone listening, how would I go about hooking those up? I assume I will need a speaker amp somewhere here? There are a lot of outputs on this thing so I am sort of confused what they all do.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I never bought the A8 despite really wanting one, so yes the price makes a big difference for me. it's not even a matter of being able to afford it(lucky me), it's the mental idea that a "simulator" anybody could run on his computer with a 7.1 soundcard, a pair of binaural mics, and a gaming head tracker, shouldn't cost 3000€. I thought it wasn't worth that then, I still don't now.
as for waiting, if I had equivalent alternatives I'd jump on them like 6 years ago. I find it much easier to wait when the choice is having something or having nothing. if an amp manufacturer was making me wait like this, I'd say "ok bye" and go get the next best thing. here the next best thing is very limited and unconvincing(at least for me). so here I am, waiting and not even mad.

I find it regrettable that no manufacturer or programmer has released a Software version of something that does what the A8 does. Seems to me that thee only two pieces of hardware absolute needed are the binaural measuring mics, and the head tracker, and we know both are readily available. If we only had the right software package, the entire implementation could be accomplished with JRiver, a measurement program a convolution program, and a head tracking program for a fraction of the charge for this hardware.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The next best thing is a "simulator" anybody could run on his computer with a sound card, a pair of binaural mics, and a gaming head tracker, is convincing, it can also be used to cancel speakers crosstalk, renders royalties to Princeton, but it costs $5,980. It does not form beams for multiple users, but then the next big thing would be a beam forming sound bar and multiple Realiser units. And it does not decode state of the art surround codecs, but it probably works with ambisonics.

I regret not buying two A16 units when I read about Ambisonics and 32 capsules eigenmicrophones. Anyway I wouldn’t afford it and by the time 32 ambisonics content gets available we would buy cheaper personalized rir head tracking processors.

I just hope Smyth Research develops a way to seamlessly integrate the Realiser A16 with softwares that are able to display stereoscopic threedimensional pictures. I would love to use a BRIR and a VR headset with an stereoscopic picture of the measured room to match vision and audition. I asked them and they did not answer. Perhaps parallax errors, viewing angle of VR headsets and other difficulties with stereoscopic 3D 360 degrees images don’t allow a precise match between real speakers image and virtual speakers sound just yet. I am looking forward to anybody figuring this out.

Absolutely insane pricing. The whole thing needs to run on any platform (incluning Windows and Linnux), be entirely software, save for the headtracker (which needs to be small and inertial) and the binaural mics, and needs to do all the things the Bach and A16 do for l.t. $1000.

 

[Richter Di]

I find it regrettable that no manufacturer or programmer has released a Software version of something that does what the A8 does. Seems to me that thee only two pieces of hardware absolute needed are the binaural measuring mics, and the head tracker, and we know both are readily available. If we only had the right software package, the entire implementation could be accomplished with JRiver, a measurement program a convolution program, and a head tracking program for a fraction of the charge for this hardware.

If you send Daren Fong https://fongaudio.com/ from Out of your head you A8 measurement he will put into his software and you can listen to it on your PC or Mac. No headtracking though.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If you send Daren Fong https://fongaudio.com/ from Out of your head you A8 measurement he will put into his software and you can listen to it on your PC or Mac. No headtracking though.

If you send Daren Fong https://fongaudio.com/ from Out of your head you A8 measurement he will put into his software and you can listen to it on your PC or Mac. No headtracking though.

Already have OOYH, but it uses A8 to get the measurements, and as you point out, no head tracking. Good as far as it goes but incomplete. The whole entire A16/A8 system could be accomplished with a very ordinary windows box, JR Media player (for format decoding), binaural in ear mics, a 3 axis, usb powered head tracker, and a convolution/rendering/headtracking program. Whole set up shouldn't cost more than $500.

 

[jgazal]

So if I had two passive floorstanders (Polk Monitor 70's, had them forever) that I wanted to keep in my setup for non-headphone listening, how would I go about hooking those up? I assume I will need a speaker amp somewhere here? There are a lot of outputs on this thing so I am sort of confused what they all do.

The Realiser does not cancel speaker crosstalk. So it uses the PRIR to insert time, level and tonal differences between channels, dinamically adjusted by head tracking, which allows the out of your head perception with headphones.

The yarra sound bar relies in sound beams formed from an array of multiple vertically aligned transducers.

They were confirmed to work together in order to playback Atmos and Ambisonics with just one array in front of the listener.

The Bacch filter is a different method/algorithm. It already captures a PRIR and uses head tracking to enhance the crosstalk cancellation between regular speakers (works better with high directivity speakers). It can be used with multiple transducers array in order to produce multiple sweet spots for multiple users.

Stephen Gets His HRTF On at Princeton's 3D3A Lab (video!)

In The Works: BACCH 3D Video Tour/Interview & Review

BACCH Prelude

BACCH4Mac Audiophile Edition 3D Audio Playback System

BACCH4Mac 3D Audio Playback System Follow-Up

Absolutely insane pricing. The whole thing needs to run on any platform (incluning Windows and Linnux), be entirely software, save for the headtracker (which needs to be small and inertial) and the binaural mics, and needs to do all the things the Bach and A16 do for l.t. $1000.

Already have OOYH, but it uses A8 to get the measurements, and as you point out, no head tracking. Good as far as it goes but incomplete. The whole entire A16/A8 system could be accomplished with a very ordinary windows box, JR Media player (for format decoding), binaural in ear mics, a 3 axis, usb powered head tracker, and a convolution/rendering/headtracking program. Whole set up shouldn't cost more than $500.

You seem very demanding. Well, the beauty is on the eye of the beholder... Dr. Choueiri point of view about the IPad control app on his flagship device:

Extract at 14:27 (...) At the iPad controller, which I am very proud of. By the way, I’ve designed every single aspect of this device. (...) Forty one thousand lines of program, I wrote every word. So... I am very proud. I’ve spent a lot of time on this. I really wanted to claim it as my own. (...)

So that time spent writing the program lines does not take into consideration the time spent to develop a xtc function/filter or the time to analyze large databases of HRTF and integrate an interpolation function that is universally applicable once you loaded a PRIR, neither the prior investment to acquire the theoretical knowledge to deal with such sign processing.

Perhaps after they capture the utility valued by early adopters they may start practicing the price policy you mentioned.

 

[illram]

The Realiser does not cancel speaker crosstalk. So it uses the PRIR to insert time, level and tonal differences between channels which allows the out of your head perception with headphones.

The yarra sound bar relies in sound beams formed from an array of multiple vertically aligned transducers.

They were confirmed to work together in order to playback Atmos and Ambisonics with just one array in front of the listener.

The Bacch filter is a different method/algorithm and it already captures an PRIR to enhance the crosstalk cancellation between regular speakers (works better with high directivity speakers). It can be used with multiple transducers array in order to produce multiple sweet spots for multiple users.

Oh yeah I just meant for pure stereo listening. Sorry I should have been more clear. E.g. if my wife or kid just wants to throw on netflix and listen through the speakers. Since I am going to be routing everything through the Smyth, similar to a receiver, my living room setup always needs to be wife/kid proof. Hopefully there is a non complicated way to do that.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The Realiser does not cancel speaker crosstalk. So it uses the PRIR to insert time, level and tonal differences between channels, dinamically adjusted by head tracking, which allows the out of your head perception with headphones.

The yarra sound bar relies in sound beams formed from an array of multiple vertically aligned transducers.

They were confirmed to work together in order to playback Atmos and Ambisonics with just one array in front of the listener.

The Bacch filter is a different method/algorithm. It already captures a PRIR and uses head tracking to enhance the crosstalk cancellation between regular speakers (works better with high directivity speakers). It can be used with multiple transducers array in order to produce multiple sweet spots for multiple users.

Stephen Gets His HRTF On at Princeton's 3D3A Lab (video!)

In The Works: BACCH 3D Video Tour/Interview & Review

BACCH Prelude

BACCH4Mac Audiophile Edition 3D Audio Playback System

BACCH4Mac 3D Audio Playback System Follow-Up
If you make it a l.t. $1k software program, rather than a multi killobuck hardware platform, you could probably make more money by virtue of the respective market penetration of the two competing strategies.




You seem very demanding. Well, the beauty is on the eye of the beholder... Dr. Choueiri point of view about the IPad control app on his flagship device:



So that time spent writing the program lines does not take into consideration the time spent to develop a xtc function/filter or the time to analyze large databases of HRTF and integrate an interpolation function that is universally applicable once you loaded a PRIR, neither the prior investment to acquire the theoretical knowledge to deal with such sign processing.

Perhaps after they capture the utility valued by early adopters they may start practicing the price policy you mentioned.

 

[jgazal]

If you make it a l.t. $1k software program, rather than a multi killobuck hardware platform, you could probably make more money by virtue of the respective market penetration of the two competing strategies

I see it. Their flagship was approximately 50,000. It remains at the same price, but since yarra entered the market, they started selling the Bacch-dsp at approximately 1/10 of that price.

So let me rephrase: after they capture the maximum profit coming from high valued utility of early adopters with monopoly/oligopoly price, they are going to further segment their product portfolio and start to practice competitive price with their basic product.

 

[sander99]

Oh yeah I just meant for pure stereo listening. Sorry I should have been more clear. E.g. if my wife or kid just wants to throw on netflix and listen through the speakers. Since I am going to be routing everything through the Smyth, similar to a receiver, my living room setup always needs to be wife/kid proof. Hopefully there is a non complicated way to do that.

Because we don't have a user manual yet, we can not be sure of all the detailed behaviour of the A16 regarding the inputs and outputs and the day to day operation. One thing that is for sure though is that there are many different ways to hook this thing up. These two things make it very difficult to go deeply into everything that could, would, might be possible.
Most functions of the A16 will have to be controlled with the remote or app or webinterface, on the front of the device are only two volume knobs (and two little switches related to impedance and sensitivity of the headphones I think, not related to everyday use as a “receiver” or rather processor-preamp).
I have a lot of ideas in my head regarding your question, of the form “if the A16 works like this we could do that” etc., too much to write it all down here. Also it depends on what equipment you have now, and what you might wanna add. I'll be happy to come back to your question once we have a user manual.
But one thing I can say now: probably you can use your current stereo amplifier or receiver just fine in combination with the A16. Either with the A16 in the audio path all the time, or kind of parallel.
(For example connect the HDMI out from your bluray/mediaplayer to the A16, and the analog stereo output of the bluray/mediaplayer to your current amplifier, and the HDMI out from the A16 to your TV. You would use the amplifier and speakers as you do now, while the A16 in low power HDMI pass-through mode passes the video to your TV. And if you do use the A16 with headphones it uses the audio from the HDMI. Similar for other video sources. Only problem: to switch to another video source you would have to switch the amplifier to the other source and switch the A16 to the desired HDMI input, and I don't know if the A16 would have to be turned on completely to do that. Furthermore you can connect a tape-record-output from your amplifier to the “Stereo In” of the A16, this way all analog stereo sources that are connected to your amplifier will be available to the A16 also. If you use a seperate cd player and it has both analog and digital outputs you could connect the analog output to your amplifier and the digital output to the “SPDIF IN” of the A16.)