[VandyMan]

I would also help out. What about we start a GoFundMe and raise some cash for the Smyth’s as a Holliday gift.

It’s in the Christmas spirit...

Instead of that, how about if Smyth sells us something like t-shirts or a custom measurement session on a reference home theater system?

 

[audiohobbit]

A T-Shirt for 500$ ?

 

[VandyMan]

A T-Shirt for 500$ ?

I hadn't gotten to the extended warranty suggestion when I posted that. I think an extended warranty is a better idea, although if it turns out a lot of units have issues, it could also sink them.

Also, nothing preventing them from doing both. I'd also happily fund a Kickstarter for a wireless head tracker. Or a wireless headphone with a built in tracker specifically designed for the A-16.

 

[Andrew Seeley]

I've read this thread and I wish the best.
I won't be able to capture the 24 ch (39 ch) Atmos theatre, possibly until the beginning of January. I'll keep everybody posted as I hear more.

 

[Eich1eeF]

I would also help out. What about we start a GoFundMe and raise some cash for the Smyth’s as a Holliday gift.

A GoFundMe would be an interesting idea, but would be more attractive to owners not as a gift, but e.g. to finance the rent+shipping for the device needed to get the DTS certification.

Edit: I'd also be interested in an extended warranty, although I'm not sure how much the Smyths would charge for repairs if/when that should be necessary.

 

[Litlgi74]

Also... other issues/concerns.

• There are only 16 channels available in 24ch mode for both DTS and PCM
• Lrs2 and Rrs2 are not available in any Atmos listening room... since they are opposing speakers of the L and R channels... this is definitely a problem for me. I would like to use 12.1.10ch (C, L, R, Lw, Rw, Lss, Rss, Lb, Rb, Lrs2, Rrs2, Cs, Lfh, Rfh, Ltf, Rtf, Ltm, Rtm, Ltr, Rtr, Lrh, Rrh, SUB). Having the L and R channels at -30° and 30° would make this listening room very easy to capture using only a two-speaker measurement setup. I do hope this listening room option can be added!
• From what I've read from the Dolby Atmos® Home Theater Installation Guidelines about Height channels (The left front height and right front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the center-front reference. This places the left front height and right front height speakers directly above the left and right speakers. We recommend that the left rear height and right rear height speakers be mounted on the rear wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with and approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the center-front reference)... According to Appendix B of the A16 manual Lh and Rh are at the correct -30° and 30° but the Lhr and Rhr are at -120° and 120° instead of the appropriate -150° and 150°

I've emailed the Smyth's about my concerns.

Ok... I heard back from the Smyth's about the bugs/issues/concerns with 24ch Mode:

• Q: There is an error with Atmos listening rooms 13.0.6 and 13.1.6... both have duplicate Ltm and Rtm channels.
• A: Yes, this duplication is a bug in those rooms, and will be fixed in the next update. Thanks for pointing this out.
• Q: The "18 ch" is duplicated in all 24 ch Atmos listening rooms... "19 ch" is missing.
• A: Yes, another bug - will be fixed in the next update.
• Q: There are only 16 channels available in 24ch mode for both DTS and PCM
• A: For PCM we don't have any method of inputting more than 16 channels of audio - hence the restriction. For DTS we currently don't decode any DTS bitstreams - hence the restriction. We're hopeful to have DTS:X compliance testing completed early next year, but this is limited to 12ch by DTS. DTS:X Pro will go up to 24ch on our hardware - but we're not sure as yet whether this will be included in the initial round of compliance testing.
• Q: Lrs2 and Rrs2 are not available in any Atmos listening room... since they are opposing speakers of the L and R channels... this is definitely a problem for me. I would like to use 12.1.10ch (C, L, R, Lw, Rw, Lss, Rss, Lb, Rb, Lrs2, Rrs2, Cs, Lfh, Rfh, Ltf, Rtf, Ltm, Rtm, Ltr, Rtr, Lrh, Rrh, SUB). Having the L and R channels at -30° and 30° would make this listening room very easy to capture using only a two-speaker measurement setup. I do hope this listening room option can be added!
• A: Yes, the Lrs2 and Rrs2 speakers are currently not available in any Atmos room. The problem is that the Atmos decoding module is a third-party product (from MDS) and their controls don't allow access to these channels unless the listening mode is set to 17.x.x or greater. Dolby introduced a sequence for adding speakers as the listening mode was increased - eg only from 9.x.xch were the l/r wide speakers allowed. However there is a workaround discussed below, that will also work for your 12.1.10ch mode.
• Q: From what I've read from the Dolby Atmos® Home Theater Installation Guidelines about Height channels (The left front height and right-front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the center-front reference. This places the left front height and right-front height speakers directly above the left and right speakers. We recommend that the left rear height and right rear height speakers be mounted on the rear wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the center-front reference)... According to Appendix B of the A16 manual Lh and Rh are at the correct -30° and 30° but the Lhr and Rhr are at -120° and 120° instead of the appropriate -150° and 150°
• A: The BBC speaker impulses were measured in an MPEG-H formatted room with a 22.2ch speaker set-up. Therefore the angles associated with these speakers, don't really correspond to the Atmos angles - particularly for the TOP speakers. Essentially the BBC only measured wall-mounted height speakers, not ceiling-mounted top speakers. The angles are correct, but we've made a copy of the height speakers and called them top speakers. As a factory-default set of measurements, this provides a set of speakers that works for most listening modes. Ultimately we'll need to provide a more complete set of measurements for the factory default.
  
  Just to be clear, the BBC set of measurement data lists 40 unique speakers but has 48 named speakers because 8 speakers have duplicate angles - as you've noticed. When we create a listening room we match the names of the speakers required for the room (the REF names in the Listening Room) with the names of the speakers in the PRIR data set (the BBC set for the factory default) - we don't match the angles. The REF names are supplied by the Atmos decoding module for each listening mode, and we can't easily change those.
  
  Now if you're considering doing your own measurements you can always create virtual speakers at any preferred angle - for example, Lrs2 and Rrs2. However the Atmos decoder will not be producing an actual Lrs2 or Rrs2 speaker output - but rather a Lb/Rb pair or Lrs1/Rrs1 pair. So the speaker angles are not restricted, but the decoded signals being reproduced through these virtual speakers are restricted.
  
  And just to top all this off, we don't have any 24ch measurement features in the A16 yet. These should be included in the next firmware update.

Followup Email...

• Q: When I create my own 24 channel (12.1.10) listening room... If I understand you correctly... If I wanted to capture speakers in the -150° and 150° positions... I could use REF label Lrs1/Rrs1 in the PRIR (or any other unused REF label) because the Realiser does not recognize position or angle? Instead, the Realiser uses the REF labels as placeholders for PRIR data sets with matching REF labels to be assigned to a given input channel(s)... And if this is true... Measuring my top channels at the Dolby spec of -30° 30°, and -150° 150° would not be a problem at all. (Sorry for the wordiness)
• A: Yes, you can capture the speakers that are in the Lrs2/Rrs2 positions, but label them as Lrs1/Rrs1 - and then these will be used when you come to create your 12.2.10 listening room. The REF labels in the 12.2.10 room are what you need to create from your measurements.
• Q: One final question about REF labels... You mentioned that currently Lrs2 could only be used with a 17.x.x or greater setup... Since the realizer is only capable of 24 channels, it's not likely that the Lrs2 channel will ever be used with the included Dolby listening room presets?
• A: The latest MDS decoding module that we are using is undergoing a major firmware overhaul - primarily to get around this 24ch limitation with the current software. They fully expect to be able to decode and transmit to us 32 channels of audio - for both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X Pro. At that time we would upgrade our firmware to allow 32 virtual speakers - and this would then include Lrs2/Rrs2 etc. So at the moment there is a limitation, but we know that this will change reasonably soon - ie within 6 months or so.
• Q: Is there any reason to believe that the DTS certification will not happen? Unfortunately... the majority of my Blu-ray collection (over 5,000 films) is in DTSHD-MA format... I can convert the audio from DTS to FLAC... But this is quite time-consuming.
• A: No, we're very confident about the DTS certification - both for DTS:X and DTS:X Pro. MDS actually have to get pre-certified in terms of the module decoding everything correctly - so for us it's more a question of copyright logos and the user interface.

This info was very helpful to me... and I am very grateful for the clarifications provided by the Smyths

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Ok... I heard back from the Smyth's about the bugs/issues/concerns with 24ch Mode:

• Q: There is an error with Atmos listening rooms 13.0.6 and 13.1.6... both have duplicate Ltm and Rtm channels.
• A: Yes, this duplication is a bug in those rooms, and will be fixed in the next update. Thanks for pointing this out.
• Q: The "18 ch" is duplicated in all 24 ch Atmos listening rooms... "19 ch" is missing.
• A: Yes, another bug - will be fixed in the next update.
• Q: There are only 16 channels available in 24ch mode for both DTS and PCM
• A: For PCM we don't have any method of inputting more than 16 channels of audio - hence the restriction. For DTS we currently don't decode any DTS bitstreams - hence the restriction. We're hopeful to have DTS:X compliance testing completed early next year, but this is limited to 12ch by DTS. DTS:X Pro will go up to 24ch on our hardware - but we're not sure as yet whether this will be included in the initial round of compliance testing.
• Q: Lrs2 and Rrs2 are not available in any Atmos listening room... since they are opposing speakers of the L and R channels... this is definitely a problem for me. I would like to use 12.1.10ch (C, L, R, Lw, Rw, Lss, Rss, Lb, Rb, Lrs2, Rrs2, Cs, Lfh, Rfh, Ltf, Rtf, Ltm, Rtm, Ltr, Rtr, Lrh, Rrh, SUB). Having the L and R channels at -30° and 30° would make this listening room very easy to capture using only a two-speaker measurement setup. I do hope this listening room option can be added!
• A: Yes, the Lrs2 and Rrs2 speakers are currently not available in any Atmos room. The problem is that the Atmos decoding module is a third-party product (from MDS) and their controls don't allow access to these channels unless the listening mode is set to 17.x.x or greater. Dolby introduced a sequence for adding speakers as the listening mode was increased - eg only from 9.x.xch were the l/r wide speakers allowed. However there is a workaround discussed below, that will also work for your 12.1.10ch mode.
• Q: From what I've read from the Dolby Atmos® Home Theater Installation Guidelines about Height channels (The left front height and right-front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the center-front reference. This places the left front height and right-front height speakers directly above the left and right speakers. We recommend that the left rear height and right rear height speakers be mounted on the rear wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the center-front reference)... According to Appendix B of the A16 manual Lh and Rh are at the correct -30° and 30° but the Lhr and Rhr are at -120° and 120° instead of the appropriate -150° and 150°
• A: The BBC speaker impulses were measured in an MPEG-H formatted room with a 22.2ch speaker set-up. Therefore the angles associated with these speakers, don't really correspond to the Atmos angles - particularly for the TOP speakers. Essentially the BBC only measured wall-mounted height speakers, not ceiling-mounted top speakers. The angles are correct, but we've made a copy of the height speakers and called them top speakers. As a factory-default set of measurements, this provides a set of speakers that works for most listening modes. Ultimately we'll need to provide a more complete set of measurements for the factory default.
  
  Just to be clear, the BBC set of measurement data lists 40 unique speakers but has 48 named speakers because 8 speakers have duplicate angles - as you've noticed. When we create a listening room we match the names of the speakers required for the room (the REF names in the Listening Room) with the names of the speakers in the PRIR data set (the BBC set for the factory default) - we don't match the angles. The REF names are supplied by the Atmos decoding module for each listening mode, and we can't easily change those.
  
  Now if you're considering doing your own measurements you can always create virtual speakers at any preferred angle - for example, Lrs2 and Rrs2. However the Atmos decoder will not be producing an actual Lrs2 or Rrs2 speaker output - but rather a Lb/Rb pair or Lrs1/Rrs1 pair. So the speaker angles are not restricted, but the decoded signals being reproduced through these virtual speakers are restricted.
  
  And just to top all this off, we don't have any 24ch measurement features in the A16 yet. These should be included in the next firmware update.

Followup Email...

• Q: When I create my own 24 channel (12.1.10) listening room... If I understand you correctly... If I wanted to capture speakers in the -150° and 150° positions... I could use REF label Lrs1/Rrs1 in the PRIR (or any other unused REF label) because the Realiser does not recognize position or angle? Instead, the Realiser uses the REF labels as placeholders for PRIR data sets with matching REF labels to be assigned to a given input channel(s)... And if this is true... Measuring my top channels at the Dolby spec of -30° 30°, and -150° 150° would not be a problem at all. (Sorry for the wordiness)
• A: Yes, you can capture the speakers that are in the Lrs2/Rrs2 positions, but label them as Lrs1/Rrs1 - and then these will be used when you come to create your 12.2.10 listening room. The REF labels in the 12.2.10 room are what you need to create from your measurements.
• Q: One final question about REF labels... You mentioned that currently Lrs2 could only be used with a 17.x.x or greater setup... Since the realizer is only capable of 24 channels, it's not likely that the Lrs2 channel will ever be used with the included Dolby listening room presets?
• A: The latest MDS decoding module that we are using is undergoing a major firmware overhaul - primarily to get around this 24ch limitation with the current software. They fully expect to be able to decode and transmit to us 32 channels of audio - for both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X Pro. At that time we would upgrade our firmware to allow 32 virtual speakers - and this would then include Lrs2/Rrs2 etc. So at the moment there is a limitation, but we know that this will change reasonably soon - ie within 6 months or so.
• Q: Is there any reason to believe that the DTS certification will not happen? Unfortunately... the majority of my Blu-ray collection (over 5,000 films) is in DTSHD-MA format... I can convert the audio from DTS to FLAC... But this is quite time-consuming.
• A: No, we're very confident about the DTS certification - both for DTS:X and DTS:X Pro. MDS actually have to get pre-certified in terms of the module decoding everything correctly - so for us it's more a question of copyright logos and the user interface.

This info was very helpful to me... and I am very grateful for the clarifications provided by the Smyths

Sounds to me like they're in it to stay if they are still following up with the DTS-X certification process. We obviously all have an interest in keeping them as a going concern. Ultimately, this will be a pro audio product, with a very few dedicated (read fanatical) home audio users. And it will continue to be an expersive (ultimately more expensive with pro interfaces) and complex product.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Instead of that, how about if Smyth sells us something like t-shirts or a custom measurement session on a reference home theater system?

If someone wants to set me up with their D & D 8Cs and assist me in taking a 16 channel measurement, I'd be more willing to donate $500 to a Smyth GoFundMe.

 

[Litlgi74]

If someone wants to set me up with their D & D 8Cs and assist me in taking a 16 channel measurement, I'd be more willing to donate $500 to a Smyth GoFundMe.

Why not use the manLOUD feature of the A16 to adjust jazzfan's D & D 8Cs PRIRs from the Google drive?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Why not use the manLOUD feature of the A16 to adjust jazzfan's D & D 8Cs PRIRs from the Google drive?

Already done that. Not the same thing as a PRIR.

 

[esimms86]

With 12 days(mercifully) remaining until the end of 2020, does anyone have any idea as where we stand regarding the release of the Realiser Exchange?

 

[AppleheadMay]

Nowhere?

 

[You Gene]

With 12 days(mercifully) remaining until the end of 2020, does anyone have any idea as where we stand regarding the release of the Realiser Exchange?

You could say “not anytime soon” with anything related to the Smyths. No offense meant, just the unfortunate situation we are in especially for all remaining kickstarters/pre-orders.
Speaking of which (Realiser Exchange), I would rather more people post their measurements on the dropbox on google drive. This is going to be the only "tentative" Realiser Exchange for quite a while…

 

[mikemav]

Sorry for the lazy reply, I've lost touch with this thread for maybe 6+ months dealing with other more pressing life issues. However I am a pre-order customer and curious where things stand? Are they still shipping units (slowly?) Is there any kind of tracker or idea where the Smyths stand in fulfilling KS and pre-orders? Would appreciate a catch up summary if someone would share, thanks!

 

[sahmen]

Sorry for the lazy reply, I've lost touch with this thread for maybe 6+ months dealing with other more pressing life issues. However I am a pre-order customer and curious where things stand? Are they still shipping units (slowly?) Is there any kind of tracker or idea where the Smyths stand in fulfilling KS and pre-orders? Would appreciate a catch up summary if someone would share, thanks!

It is a long, and mostly uninspiring story... But maybe the best, and quickest way to respond, is to paste here below, this reply I received from James Smyth on December 14th (I mean this month) after writing to inquire about my pre-order number and where I stand in the line:

********************
Hi P....,


Sorry for the late reply.

You're still on the list for delivery of the A16, you are pre-order number #226
We have almost completed KS order and once that's complete we will begin pre-orders.
I understand your frustration, but our aim is for everyone who has pre-ordered to receive a unit.
The real issue is that the KS price we established initially doesn't even cover the costs to make the A16, so we got the pricing wrong.
So at this point we either pack it in and pay everyone's money back, this would result in bankruptcy, or we put a number of units aside and start to sell at retail price to make some money and ship KS at the same time.
It's a juggling act really. On top of that there is essentially 3 people working full time making who don't even make minimum wage, so everything we is to keep the lights on in the hope of getting through this backlog and start moving forward with the business.

I really appreciate your patience and I know it's not nice, but everything we are doing is to make sure everyone who has paid will get their unit, because the day they don't is the day our doors shut and we're finished as a business.

I expect that your unit will be shipped early 2021.

Again I'm sorry for the extremely long wait, but your unit will be delivered.


Best Regards
James

****************************
If you want my reaction to the note, I have been both deeply touched, and also even more p*ssed off... especially at James

"Deeply touched," not only by the story of financial managerial ineptitude that sounds almost too tragic to be true, coming from guys like the Smyths who have the smarts and talents to come up with a product such as the A-16, but also because it is the first time I have ever felt that James was telling me something resembling "the whole truth"..., except for one glaringly odd and dissonant line, which spoiled it all once again for me..., namely :

"I expect that your unit will be shipped early 2021."

If you have guessed that there is no way under the sun that my unit, pre-order #226, can get "shipped early 2021," then you and I are on the same page. So why was he still lying to me, after going to so much apparent trouble to spill the beans on this humbling (not to say "humiliating") story?

Well that is what got me p*ssed off all over again, in spite of the sob story, which I mostly fell for, although now, I am back to not knowing what to think,