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Smyth Research Realiser A16

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by jgazal, May 7, 2016.
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  1. frank2908
    In my case, I was fine with auto eq, especially knowing that I cannot have my personal PRIR done soon. The auto eq fix the bass frequency for me, however the other issues lies in the mid, with bbc room mid is too thick, I felt like I have 2 speaker at azimuth +-90 degree, and Surrey room the high mid is a bit too much. I think the level of priority for me is to have a PRIR done by anybody with a better set of speaker instead of having my own measurement done with less superior speaker. I can imagine the mid not to my liking is because of the speakers measures in that room, based on what I heard.
  2. Om ma Ni
    How do you test precisely the different room sound signature and tone? I mean , do you only judge it when doing the preset sound test procedure with the "saxophone" sound..?
    From my ears, after autoEQ, with the preset sound TEST, the most noticeable difference between the BBC and the surrey rooms are the distance of the virtual speakers..Surrey room sounds more open and wide with my ears.
    For both rooms, the top height atmos virtual speakers always sound very close and still inside my head..bit hard to tell that they are elevated all around me...
  3. frank2908
    Again, all of my listening is via 2 channel speaker for music listening. I agree the Surrey room is more spacious than the BBC room. The thing I like the most is that no detail is lost from the virtualization, it is just different tone, imaging, and soundstage size, so very good job from Smyth reseach. The difference in the two room ( different room size, different imaging and soundstage) that I can feel and hear makes me convinced that it is the limit of the speaker measured that I'm not happy with.
  4. You Gene
    cannot delete. sorry
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  5. Om ma Ni
    I dont think that the Surrey room has low mid range speaker quality..should be more than decent..Maybe try Audiohobbit advice to perform the famous manLoud EQ to see if it can improve your listening experience..
    My dream one day with the A16....will be to create a perfect virtual room made from La Sphere speakers from Cabasse......hehe
  6. sander99
    Differences between individual HRTFs can have a very big influence on the perceived frequency response of the virtual speakers. I think it is impossible to seriously judge the frequency response (or other qualities) of a set of speakers by listening to them with someone else's or a generic PRIR. Especially when the speakers seem to be in the wrong position. (90 degrees you said? That contradicts that the autoEQ works good enough for the generic PRIRs and you.)
    So I think most likely your conclusions about the speakers are not correct. At the very least you should try to do the manLOUD, and even if you still don't like the virtual speakers with that you can still not be sure it is because of the real speakers. (Of course you don't have to do the manLOUD if it is too much trouble for you and you are satisfied for the moment, I am just saying: don't judge the speakers based on what you hear now.)
  7. audiohobbit
    No it is because those PRIRs have not been made with your ears!

    Bot Surrey and BBC room use good Genelec monitors. I am pretty sure that there is no big difference in tonality between thos two setups.

    You HAVE to do the manLOUD process to get a better result with rooms that are not measured with your ears.
    An auto HPEQ doesn't make much sense with a PRIR that is not measured with your ears.

    Only if you're lucky and your anatomy is very equal to the dummy head or the other person that had the microphones in it's ears. But this is seldom the case. I tried lots of other PRIRs with the A8 and most of them sounded not very good to my ears with auo HPEQ.
    The A8 also has some sort of manual LOUDNESS process but I never tried it because it is far too complicated.
    The manLOUD HPEQ as implemented in the A16 is very good implementation and seems to deliver good results when done correctly.
    You Gene likes this.
  8. audiohobbit
    In a 5.1 setup there are no "side" speakers. The surrounds should be at 120 degree azimuth. Not to your side, and not fully to your rear. They are called Ls and Rs - Left surround and Right surround,
    Whereas a 7.1 setup has (or should have) real side speakers at 90 degree azimuth, so exactly to your left and right side. Consequently they are labelled Lss and Rss - Left SIDE Surround and Right SIDE Surround. And the other 2 speakers should be at 150 degree azimuth, so far more on rear side and not so much apart as the surrounds of a 5.1 setup. Consequently they are named Lb and Rb Left BACK and Right BACK.

    So there is no real equivalence for the Ls and Rs speakers of a 5.1 setup in a 7.1 setup because there are no speakers in a 7.1 setup where the Ls and Rs in a 5.1 setup should be. So sending the Ls,Rs signals to Lss and Rss is wrong, but sending them to Lb and Rb is also wrong.

    The A16 doesn it "wrong" because it can't be done right anyway, as I mentioned before. Other amps, pre-amps etc. do this equally "wrong".

    Before 7.1 was introduced there was only 5.1. It was decided to ADD back speakers so the two back channels were new and the other two channels left and reassigned.
  9. audiohobbit
    AFAIK auto EQ doesn't do anything below 500 Hz. Same with manLOUD. So couldn't automatically fix any bass problems.

    No, you could send someone else to a one million dollar super duper listening room and record a PRIR and if YOU listen to it then it could sound totally horrible to you and a PRIR done with YOUR own ears with some 500 dollar speakers could sound way better than the million dollar room PRIR from another person.

    The manLOUD procedure is a first workaround to personalize a PRIR of another person somehow.
    Smyth will offer a better personalisation service on the Exchange website, but still the result could be inferior to any at least decent speakers recorded with your own ears.
    And not forget, the speakers aren't as important as the room itself. Million dollar speakers in a bathroom would still sound horrible...
  10. Om ma Ni
    Audiohobbit, i am trying to have a go with the manLoud again but this time starting with the FlatEQ instead of autoEQ. from your advice:
    Please correct me if i am wrong in the procedure:
    Start by selecting the HPEQ
    Proceed the flatEQ with FlatCurve (one click step)
    Save the flatEQ from the cycle files folder
    Reselect the saved flatEQ
    Proceed the manLoud EQ with this flatEQ
    Save again the flatEQ/manLOUD from the cycle files folder.
  11. audiohobbit
    Yes I think so except the last step. The manLOUD HPEQ will be automatically added to the HPEQ you selected as ManEQ Start. No need to save again.
    Most important is to press the HP key on the remote when you're finishes with equalising, otherwise your settings won't be stored/added to the HPEQ you selected as man EQ start.
    Just carefuly watch the video. He selects HPEQ from the internal memory as man EQ start, do the eqing, press HP and that's it. Then he goes to a preset and loads the exact same file from the internal memory into the preset, and this file now has the manLOUD curve added.

    So for every manLOUD HPEQ you want to make you have to create a new flat HPEQ first! Otherwise your manLOUD curve will just be overwritten!

    And so that people not get confused: "Flat Curve" in this case doesn' refer to the Curve you select in the manLOUD process, because there you can also select a flat curve. Here you select the Equal Loudness 80 Curve.
  12. Richter Di
    @You Gene No problem. I am Reiner, I am number 98 and I did not receive mine.

    BUT - Tadaa - today I received an email from UPS about a package from UK. High hopes it is the A16.
    Sordel likes this.
  13. Om ma Ni
    So to start a new FlatEQ file before manLoud(ing) it , do we need to select the HPEQ file from the internal memory only and not the ones from the cycle one?
    If thats the case, will the new flatEQ be named and recognise by FlatEQ/.. only and not by autoEQ/flatEQ/..etc?
  14. Om ma Ni
    Also, are all the HPEQ start by autoEQ/.../....? asking bc the one created after FlatEQ still have the AutoEQ at beginning of its reference name..?
    So does it mean that we can not just apply only FlatEQ to start with?
    I know,...i am confusing...
  15. audiohobbit
    I think you can also select a HPEQ file from the cycle buffer and the manLOUD curve will be added then to this file in the cycle buffer. At least then you should copy this to the internal memory so that it get lost. And also to SD card for storage.
    The name that is displayed will not be different unfortunately.
    File naming is a point I'm not totally satisfied with.
    The HPEQ file name consists of the user and the headphone that you enter in the setup. You can not alter this manually afterwards.
    So if you do 3 autoEQs or 3 flatEQs with same user and headphone names, all of thos will be shown with the same name. Only difference are date and time!
    You have to keep track yourself which is which.

    And what's even more confusing: When you copy a file to SD card and see the filename on your computer, the file name includes date and time, but NOT the date and time the HPEQ was made and what is displayed inside the A16! The date and time in the file name will be date and time you stored this file to SD card.
    You have to open the file with a text editor and the header shows you the real date and time when the file was generated, the data that are also shown in the A16.
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