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Smyth Research Realiser A16

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by jgazal, May 7, 2016.
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  1. audiohobbit
    I already answered via pm that the "hurting" is an exageration of me. It's difficult to explain what I mean.
    And no I don't mean setting output volume to 80, and this would not be possible, since in manLOUD you can set all bands inclduing base band to relative levels between -30 and +30 dB. The normal volume setting doesn't work here. Only thing working would be the gain switches.

    However when selecting the Equal Loudness 80 curve as a target, the noise you hear should have 80 dB absolute value. Unfortunately you can not measure this via SPL-meter in your ears, so have to guess what 80dB are.

    The background of this are the equal loudness curves of the human ear/brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
    These describe how loud we perceive different frequencies. These curves are not that different between individuals.
    Those curves are dependent on overall level. Our ear/brain system is trained to be most sensitive in the range of voices/animal screams etc. from 500 Hz to 4 kHz. You can see the dip in those curves. The quieter the sound is the more quieter we perceive deep bass or high brights. At very high volume our hearing tends to get more and more linear. I think it is said that at the noise pain threshold (somewhere about 130 phon) our hearing is nearly linear...

    What do those (red) curves in the wiki aricle tell us? Look at the curve marked with 80. At 1 kHz it is exactly at 80 dB. At 10 kHz it is at ca. 92 dB. This means that at a 1 kHz level of 80 dB we perceive a 10 kHz sound 12 dB quieter than the 1 kHz sound or in other words the 10 kHz sound must be boosted by 12 dB so that we perceive it as loud as the 80 dB sound at 1 kHz!

    If we listen to a broadband noise signal that has the same (non weighted) measured loudness at every frequency we would perceive the bass and treble quieter than the mids. The noise has to be boosted with the equal loudness curve so that the we perceive every frequency band as having the same loudness.

    This is what the manLOUD procedure does. For "personalizing" a PRIR that was not made with your ears, the noise is played through one or more of the virtual speakers of this PRIR and wighted with the equal loudness curve so that you can equalise all loudness differences to get the virtual speaker more or less linear (for your ears)
  2. blubliss Contributor
    Wrong again, in my opinion. I've had an A8 since 2009, never used head tracker. Now I have an A16 (delivered and set up yesterday) and I will most likely not use the head tracker. I don't tend to move my head around while I watch or listen.
  3. audiohobbit
    You don't have to wildly turn around your head. We tend to do subtle head movements all the time to better distinguish directions and the Realiser headtrackers are that sensitive that they can recognize those small movements. But if you're "trained" enough you don't have to use it, and it's simple because you can choose not to. Although with the A16 you can not switch off headtracking (the A8 has a button for HT off and HT on), you have to unplug the head top.
  4. blubliss Contributor
    When I send audio via HDMI from my PC or an Oppo 105 and the layout is 5.1, the audio is being sent to the side speakers instead of the back. If I send audio via USB (5.1) to the same room it is correct, speakers in back/rear. I am using my aix 7.1 PRIR mixed with the BBC PRIR to create a 9.1.6 room.

    Thoughts on how to fix this?
  5. audiohobbit
    Unfortunately this is "normal".
    With 5.1 surrounds should be at about 120 degrees, with 7.1 side surrounds should be at 90 and back surrounds at 150. So sending the surrounds of a 5.1 sides or backs would be both wrong.
    Do you use PCM or Dolby?
    For a PCM listening room you could reassign the back surrounds as surrounds and create a 5.1 setup, because layout is relatively free with PCM rooms, but with Dolby (or DTS later) side surrounds, back surrounds or surrounds of 5.1 all have different labels and can not be replaced.
    I don't know how the imported PRIRs from the A8 are labelled.
  6. audiohobbit
    You can use the upmixer when using Dolby to upmix from 5.1 to 7.1 But the upmixers still get it wrong if there is a single sound on one of the surrounds then it will stille be mixed only to the side surround. Only if there are signals in both surrounds (which is more often the case I think) the signals are divided between back and side surrounds.
  7. phoenixdogfan
    Im wondering if it might not help to do a preliminary eq on a pair of miniDSP ears to get yourself in the right ballpark before subjecting your own irreplaceable ears and hearing to this process.
  8. phoenixdogfan
    Do we know how many preorders are out there? If not, why not just ask James Smyth?
  9. audiohobbit
    No it doesn't and you all got me wrong, you don't damage your hearing with that.
  10. Om ma Ni
    Regarding the autoEQ with the microphones etc, is everyone has tried it, will be interesting to have feedback to see if some are happy so far with this EQ only?

    I am still struggling with the manLoud..when i spend long time on it (without getting to 80db!)..it sounds that my ears and brain adapt to the loudness and freq making it harder to detect differences..

    Also, i am using HD800 as HP which sound bit light on the low freq specially from the SubWoof channel..so should I activate the SVS Bass or increase the LFE in Bass management?
    Heard that SVS Bass has some issue regarding distortion etc..?
  11. Richter Di
    James wrote to me last week:
    Which did not happen.
    So I received nothing.
  12. audiohobbit
    auto HPEQ does ONLY make sense with a PRIR that was measured with your ears!
    A factory preset with auto EQ will sound horrible to most users, as it did to me and to you also.

    The SVS Bass only works below 40 Hz, that's to deep for your need and it causes distortions but I think Stephen knows where the problem lie.

    You could use the new APM89 bass setting where you can set max. frequency of the low shelving filter and gain (or attenuation) below that frequency. Although I encountered a small bug there I think: it goes only to plus or minus 6 dB according to my measurement if you set it to plus/minus 12 dB. But 6 dB should already be a lot.
    I'm not totally sure about that bug but reported to Stephen anyway.

    APM89 bass works only with digital inputs (HDMI and SPDIF)
  13. dsperber
    The side speakers on 5.1 PRIR are Ls and Rs. This is how they appear labeled in the A8 PRIR. In contrast the side speakers on 7.1 are Lss and Rss, and again they are labeled as such in the A8 PRIR.

    The A8 handles them both as "side" speakers, and the A8 remote speaker solo button for LS and RS sends sound to either Ls/Rs if you're using a 5.1 PRIR, or to Lss/Rss if you're using a 7.1 PRIR. I've pointed that out a while back as something which makes good sense, and the LS/RS buttons are simply used to solo whichever the "side" speakers are, understanding that the speaker names differ in 5.1 and 7.1 PRIRs.

    On the A16, importing the two A8 PRIR's retains the speaker names. But the A16 LS/RS speaker solo is confusingly specifically only for the Lss/Rss speakers, not the Ls/Rs speakers. So speaker solo of 7.1 PRIR using LS/RS keys only produces sound out of the side speakers when using a 7.1 PRIR. No sound from the side speakers from those LS/RS keys for a 5.1 PRIR (you must manually assign two of the numeric solo keys for Ls/Rs if you want to solo them).

    That said, surely there must be some connection between the differing names of the "side" speakers in 5.1 vs. 7.1 PRIRs, and your problem. You say you've used your 7.1 PRIR plus BBC to produce a 9.1 6, and you're now sending 5.1 source, and sound is coming out the wrong speakers. Since you only have 5.1 source, why don't you try making another room combining your 5.1 PRIR with BBC, just so that the side speaker names match 5.1 setup, and also corresponds to the 5.1 source content. Then see if you get sound correctly produced.

    Seems the A16 should have switched to PCM if its only receiving 5.1 source (not Dolby Atmos), and you want to be using the 5.1 PRIR from the A8 to present the sound correctly.

    I'm probably not expressing everything consistently, but I'm guessing the issue is coming from the different names for the side speakers in 5.1 (Ls/Rs) vs. 7.1 PRIRs (Lss/Rss). Of course it also may be the A16 itself which is confused or doing the wrong thing, picking the wrong speakers to send 5.1 "side" sound to based on a 7.1 PRIR, because of their names.
  14. Om ma Ni
    Thanks heaps audiohobbit! Will try the APM89 for sure!
    Now i start to understand the HPEQ bit more...So Really think that we all should concentrate on the famous manLOUD EQ to optimize our listening experience for the people who are only using the factory preset like in my case..
    I will test the APM89 and come back soon.....
  15. castleofargh Contributor
    so how do we deal with this massive issues of having a different opinion on what is important for ourselves? duel with swords? guns? ^_^
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