[Zenvota]

Yes, I've heard 'Out of Your Head' demos. So far, I feel that Redscape gives a better, even more realistic result with my particular setup -- also, there's an EQ preset in Redscape for my HD-800.

You're comparing a lossy file with no headphone correction to a real time rendering with the specific eq for the hd800. As far as I can tell Redscape is still modeled where OOYH is measured. Not taking anything away from Redscape, I use the Mobius daily and it sounds really fantastic, but even with the head tracking and the head variables it doesnt come close to the size and naturalness of the measured RIR. Just saying, if you're into this stuff, try running the OOYH program with an EQ as opposed to the recorded demo mp3s. And in addition you've got alot of rooms to choose from as opposed to the single hrtf of Redscape.

 

[Zenvota]

I had OOYH on when I tested the Redscape demos, and was perplexed at why when hitting the redscape off button during the demo I was still getting a virtualized sound xD This was discussed briefly in the Mobius threads that using two separate convolution engines does work, and indeed the distance of the virtual loudspeakers was much further than either program by itself, although I believe fidelity suffers. Might be an interesting thing to tinker with though.

The Redscape demo sounded very good, and its awesome that theres another option besides waves nx with headtracking especially with the Dspeaker headspeaker being discontinued. The virtual speaker distance wasn't as far out as with OOYHs Genelec preset though, and OOYH sounds more natural, but thats just comparing the demo of redscape.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I had OOYH on when I tested the Redscape demos, and was perplexed at why when hitting the redscape off button during the demo I was still getting a virtualized sound xD This was discussed briefly in the Mobius threads that using two separate convolution engines does work, and indeed the distance of the virtual loudspeakers was much further than either program by itself, although I believe fidelity suffers. Might be an interesting thing to tinker with though.

The Redscape demo sounded very good, and its awesome that theres another option besides waves nx with headtracking especially with the Dspeaker headspeaker being discontinued. The virtual speaker distance wasn't as far out as with OOYHs Genelec preset though, and OOYH sounds more natural, but thats just comparing the demo of redscape.

I have OOYH and it works well for me with a couple of the presets, though I'm convinced it would work so much better with headtracking. If I get Redscape, I'll let everyone know how they compare.
BTW, interesting to suggest using OOYH and Redscpe together. Since I already have the excellent Sonarworks Eq (which I use w OOYH), it might be interesting to see how well all three work and play together on my HD 800 and LCD X.

 

[Zenvota]

I have OOYH and it works well for me with a couple of the presets, though I'm convinced it would work so much better with headtracking. If I get Redscape, I'll let everyone know how they compare.
BTW, interesting to suggest using OOYH and Redscpe together. Since I already have the excellent Sonarworks Eq (which I use w OOYH), it might be interesting to see how well all three work and play together on my HD 800 and LCD X.

Does sonarworks flatten out the uncompensated response? I eq everything manually with equalizer apo.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Does sonarworks flatten out the uncompensated response? I eq everything manually with equalizer apo.

Yes. Sonarworks is a VST plug in on JRiver MC 21 for me (though there is a desktop app), and passes its output to OOYH in WASAPI in my set up.

 

[Eich1eeF]

Actually, he said that the A16 passed an important milestone (and not “is going to pass”) last week (he wrote “this week” in his message but he sent it on Sunday, so it means that it happened last week)

Oh well, turns out my french is even more rusty than I assumed.

 

[Bill13]

Just saying, if you're into this stuff, try running the OOYH program with an EQ as opposed to the recorded demo mp3s

I have OOYH and it works well for me with a couple of the presets, though I'm convinced it would work so much better with headtracking. If I get Redscape, I'll let everyone know how they compare.
BTW, interesting to suggest using OOYH and Redscpe together. Since I already have the excellent Sonarworks Eq (which I use w OOYH), it might be interesting to see how well all three work and play together on my HD 800 and LCD X.

Yes, the OOTH program would be interesting to try in the future .. Someday may look into this -- but it looks like it would take extra time (learning curves) and expense to get OOYH program, Sonarworks EQ, JRiver Media Center, etc.. I guess some apps have free trials .. if can learn & experiment fast enough.

Anyway, at this time I intend to use Redscape as something to tide me over until my Realiser A16 arrives. Somehow, Redscape sounds wonderful in my particular setup.

How is the out-of-head effect with vocals?

Redscape with my Chord M-scaler also great with vocals - places the person(s) in my room like the solo violin.

I really haven't had Redscape long enough to listen to more than a few recordings yet. Maybe I'll post more later...
However, I was also amazed by placement/realism of a vocal ensemble (singers, no instruments): Johann Sebastian Bach - Coral Vor deinen Thron tret ich hiermit, BWV 668.mp4, conducted by Gardiner (Bach Cantatas).

 

[paulchiu]

Yes, the OOTH program would be interesting to try in the future .. Someday may look into this -- but it looks like it would take extra time (learning curves) and expense to get OOYH program, Sonarworks EQ, JRiver Media Center, etc.. I guess some apps have free trials .. if can learn & experiment fast enough.

Anyway, at this time I intend to use Redscape as something to tide me over until my Realiser A16 arrives. Somehow, Redscape sounds wonderful in my particular setup.



Redscape with my Chord M-scaler also great with vocals - places the person(s) in my room like the solo violin.

I really haven't had Redscape long enough to listen to more than a few recordings yet. Maybe I'll post more later...
However, I was also amazed by placement/realism of a vocal ensemble (singers, no instruments): Johann Sebastian Bach - Coral Vor deinen Thron tret ich hiermit, BWV 668.mp4, conducted by Gardiner (Bach Cantatas).

good to hear about the vocals being naturally placed further out. My main issue with OOYH software a few years back was the echo like sound with vocals. Pretty much all DSP on gaming headsets have similar echo like vocals. The first realiser did not, but that's a different animal all together.
What exactly does the Chord M Scaler does in all this? It has DSP functions?

 

[Zenvota]

good to hear about the vocals being naturally placed further out. My main issue with OOYH software a few years back was the echo like sound with vocals. Pretty much all DSP on gaming headsets have similar echo like vocals. The first realiser did not, but that's a different animal all together.
What exactly does the Chord M Scaler does in all this? It has DSP functions?

That sounds more like a lack of headphone correction, where 2-6khz and all the reverb/reflections are over accentuated. Also, the presets in OOYH in untreated rooms would sound more echoey, but with headphone correction and a good audio system it can sound very natural. OOYHs presets were takin with the Realiser A8, but the program doesn't do any headphone correction.

 

[castleofargh]

I have OOYH and it works well for me with a couple of the presets, though I'm convinced it would work so much better with headtracking. If I get Redscape, I'll let everyone know how they compare.
BTW, interesting to suggest using OOYH and Redscpe together. Since I already have the excellent Sonarworks Eq (which I use w OOYH), it might be interesting to see how well all three work and play together on my HD 800 and LCD X.

the problem with head tracking is that at any angle, the response will be calculated based at best on some dummy head's HRTF. or even worst, based on over simplistic models(think crossfeed for a bunch of angles). so we're back to wondering how anatomically average/lucky we are. because if we're not, the experience is probably going to suck.
given the impressive lack of relevant information on Redscape's website, I expect something hardly better than Waves NX. the apparent difference being that Waves NX takes the size of the head into account for a few things, while Redscape provides an EQ so we can try(I'm guessing) to adjust the vertical axis for mono and hope that it's enough to get the rest right(and that again makes it all about our own HRTF compared to the model used). even if that's all there is to it, it's not horrible. but we keep getting half assed jobs where everybody sticks to universal crap, plus a different piece of the psychoacoustic puzzle for the sake of saying "look! it's a new product!". but almost nobody seems interested in implementing what's actually needed.
so the good news is that it keeps me wanting the A16. but my hopes of ubiquitous quality headphone stereo remains a distant dream.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yes, the OOTH program would be interesting to try in the future .. Someday may look into this -- but it looks like it would take extra time (learning curves) and expense to get OOYH program, Sonarworks EQ, JRiver Media Center, etc.. I guess some apps have free trials .. if can learn & experiment fast enough.

Anyway, at this time I intend to use Redscape as something to tide me over until my Realiser A16 arrives. Somehow, Redscape sounds wonderful in my particular setup.



Redscape with my Chord M-scaler also great with vocals - places the person(s) in my room like the solo violin.

I really haven't had Redscape long enough to listen to more than a few recordings yet. Maybe I'll post more later...
However, I was also amazed by placement/realism of a vocal ensemble (singers, no instruments): Johann Sebastian Bach - Coral Vor deinen Thron tret ich hiermit, BWV 668.mp4, conducted by Gardiner (Bach Cantatas).

Since you going to have both, I'll be looking forward to your head to head comparison (review?) of the two.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

the problem with head tracking is that at any angle, the response will be calculated based at best on some dummy head's HRTF. or even worst, based on over simplistic models(think crossfeed for a bunch of angles). so we're back to wondering how anatomically average/lucky we are. because if we're not, the experience is probably going to suck.
given the impressive lack of relevant information on Redscape's website, I expect something hardly better than Waves NX. the apparent difference being that Waves NX takes the size of the head into account for a few things, while Redscape provides an EQ so we can try(I'm guessing) to adjust the vertical axis for mono and hope that it's enough to get the rest right(and that again makes it all about our own HRTF compared to the model used). even if that's all there is to it, it's not horrible. but we keep getting half assed jobs where everybody sticks to universal crap, plus a different piece of the psychoacoustic puzzle for the sake of saying "look! it's a new product!". but almost nobody seems interested in implementing what's actually needed.
so the good news is that it keeps me wanting the A16. but my hopes of ubiquitous quality headphone stereo remains a distant dream.

I've been in communication with the Redscape purveyor. He says his HRTF is adjustable for head width and ear(pinnae) size, and that the effect of those adjustments is "subtle".

 

[castleofargh]

I've been in communication with the Redscape purveyor. He says his HRTF is adjustable for head width and ear(pinnae) size, and that the effect of those adjustments is "subtle".

in principle I agree, I'd expect maybe a change in direction by a small angle. the rest being what we always have anyway with a headphone or direct sound sources. in practice my venture into testing all the HRIR I could find and trying to understand what was going on, has led me to some curious correlation between head size and how often the result came close to being correct for me(I have a fairly big skull). I've always talked about that with a bag of salt in each hand because I have absolutely no clue if it's random chance or if there is something to it. but obviously it has made me interested in having that variable included as much as possible if only to be able to increase the number of stuff I can test. so I'm glad they bothered with it ^_^. they should probably offer some more technical info on their website so idiots like myself don't jump to conclusion about the app being too basic.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

in principle I agree, I'd expect maybe a change in direction by a small angle. the rest being what we always have anyway with a headphone or direct sound sources. in practice my venture into testing all the HRIR I could find and trying to understand what was going on, has led me to some curious correlation between head size and how often the result came close to being correct for me(I have a fairly big skull). I've always talked about that with a bag of salt in each hand because I have absolutely no clue if it's random chance or if there is something to it. but obviously it has made me interested in having that variable included as much as possible if only to be able to increase the number of stuff I can test. so I'm glad they bothered with it ^_^. they should probably offer some more technical info on their website so idiots like myself don't jump to conclusion about the app being too basic.

https://www.redscapeaudio.com/

Here's the website. The UI looks pretty self explanatory.

 

[Sordel]

Off-topic, but my first impressions of the Creative SX-Fi Air are here.