[musicday]

Hopefully in march when Smyth Research are showing the A16 again, to the public, we will get a realistic shipping date.
Fingers crossed for positive news guys

 

[Bill13]

I attached tactile transducers to a board at the base of a recliner and I get a very even response on the whole chair, ottoman/foot rest, seat, armrests, back rest. Same on a desk chair attached to the frame. A bit more involved but significantly more immersive.

When/if A16 is received (ordered in 2016!), I expect to continue using a Velodyne DD-15 subwoofer placed directly behind the couch in my home theater system - subwoofer is only a fraction of an inch from the back of couch.
Late at night I must turn off the main speakers and wear headphones - the low-pass filtered subwoofer rumble so far doesn't seem to annoy/wake up my wife .
With this subwoofer placement, I get visceral impact from action movie sub-bass like the ship canon-fire in the "Master and Commander movie.
No longer need to use two pair of Crowson Shadow-8 Dual Motion Actuator under couch legs because, IMO, the subwoofer does a much better job (more powerful shaking -- immersing the whole-body) than the actuator motors..
However if I get complaints about the subwoofer, I may be forced to revert to the Crowson couch-actuators.

 

[johnn29]

Have you tried the Quake 10B's? I prefer the tacticle impact on that than my dual SVS PB13. Although, my PB13's aren't directly firing at the sofa. The only thing that they can't really do a good job on is with music. Action movies feel even more immersive with the Quake's. But real music, especially live recorded stuff, is much better with real subs giving you the physical impact of being there.

 

[Bill13]

Have you tried the Quake 10B's? I prefer the tactile impact on that than my dual SVS PB13. Although, my PB13's aren't directly firing at the sofa. The only thing that they can't really do a good job on is with music. Action movies feel even more immersive with the Quake's. But real music, especially live recorded stuff, is much better with real subs giving you the physical impact of being there.

\\

I've only tried the Crowson couch actuators.

I found that the subwoofer(s) must be located less than an inch behind the couch to get tremendous immersive physical impact -- it's very different from locating the subwoofer(s) in the usual locations - for example, typically near the main loudspeakers or the corners of room, etc..

Agree that real subs are better with real music
For example, subwoofers are preferred for Baroque pipe-organ music as well as the 1812 overture.

For me, so far, "Master and Commander" movie ship canon fire has stunning visceral impact only when the subwoofer is placed behind the couch -- very happy with it -- even with headphones instead of the main speakers.

 

[Zenvota]

Have you tried the Quake 10B's? I prefer the tacticle impact on that than my dual SVS PB13. Although, my PB13's aren't directly firing at the sofa. The only thing that they can't really do a good job on is with music. Action movies feel even more immersive with the Quake's. But real music, especially live recorded stuff, is much better with real subs giving you the physical impact of being there.

I find for music I need to turn the shakers down at least 10db and it seems to blend better with headphones.

 

[johnn29]

How do you cross over to the headphones for the sub? Did you use any measurements? It's really simple to do with a UMIK or Auddssey but worried that if I start using my sub I'll get nulls at my ear drum. Obviously I can play around with test tones myself and try and listen but would prefer a measurement based setup.

 

[Bill13]

How do you cross over to the headphones for the sub? Did you use any measurements? It's really simple to do with a UMIK or Auddssey but worried that if I start using my sub I'll get nulls at my ear drum. Obviously I can play around with test tones myself and try and listen but would prefer a measurement based setup.

My DD-15 subwoofer has built-in DSP user-adjustable low pass crossover (crossover frequency adjustable & can choose low pass slope up to 36dB/octave).
I use my subwoofer behind the couch below 40Hz with sharp low pass filter.

I wouldn't worry about low-frequency nulls at eardrum -- I'll try to explain why below.

How would you do a measurement based setup - such as, use an artificial dummy head with ear-mics for headphone measurements?
IMO such measurements aren't needed because they're simply not that relevant. Hearing & body visceral impact are different.
Consequently, I found that subjective adjustments & evaluation has been sufficient.

Make adjustments to subwoofer crossover for sitting on the couch based on playing movies with strong sub-bass, canon-fire, explosions, etc.
I tried test tones, but not as good as simply experiencing.

In my setup acoustic nulls at the eardrum are not very important, because:
1. My behind-couch subwoofer, and actuator motors like the Crowson (uses dedicated low-pass filter amp), and perhaps others like the Quake 10B's, 'Buttkickers' (actual product name) provide immersive tactile/visceral whole-body involvement. --- Not the eardrum.

2. Most headphones are not doing much below roughly 30-40Hz anyway. Earphones don't punch the gut and chest; & they don't literally kick butt ("Buttkickers")

3. The ear-brain below 40 Hz is not sensitive to acoustic nuances/detail (phase shifts producing nulls, directional cues, etc.).

Anyway, if you have a good idea for a relevant measurement setup, it might be interesting.

 

[johnn29]

Very good points. All true - I guess the only measurement based one that would work would be binural mics in your own ears.

I tried some open backs with another one of my Subs (SVS SB2000) in a much smaller room so it's flat to 7hz (110db output @ 7hz before roll off) and it has made me realise that I really don't like what I have to do with the sub to get the tactile impact I like for movies. I end up jacking the trim up so high that the bass becomes muddy. The beauty of the transducer is that I can customise my physical impact without applying a curve.

Still experimenting with music. For something like the DT990 that lacks sub-bass it's good. But for something like the Astro A50's which are (surprisingly) a good open critical headphone it won't offer much as they go down to 10hz themselves.

 

[musicday]

When can we talk again about the A16? I miss that

 

[paulchiu]

I would love to talk about my A16 too.
I thought staying up all night on launch and becoming #13 would land me a set in 2017. Nope, no lucky 13 on this one. Now I seriously worry it may never launch.

 

[Bill13]

When can we talk again about the A16? I miss that

OK, back to the A16 here.

A couple of years ago I got a demo of the A16 prototype conducted by Mr. Smyth, the designer, at NYC Canjam show.
The spacial 3D effect with headphones was indeed as good as claimed.

I was also impressed when Mr. Smyth told me that the user's headphones & ear combo frequency response is initially calibrated using the supplied in-ear microphones (Smyth told me that these supplied microphones have very flat frequency response). So, automatic headphone EQ by the A16 will be a great feature/bonus (when/if we receive our A16s).

Mr. Smyth also told me that the majority of people have similar outer-ear acoustic properties -- As I recall, he found that the same A16 PRIR file works just fine for roughly 85% to 90% of A16 users(PRIR is a measurement file made using the listener's own head). I further understood that this common/general-user PRIR file is to be included with your A16s -- files for typical room acoustic environments (plus, there's the Smyth Online Exchange website for PRIR measurements).

 

[paulchiu]

OK, back to the A16 here.

A couple of years ago I got a demo of the A16 prototype conducted by Mr. Smyth, the designer, at NYC Canjam show.
The spacial 3D effect with headphones was indeed as good as claimed.

I was also impressed when Mr. Smyth told me that the user's headphones & ear combo frequency response is initially calibrated using the supplied in-ear microphones (Smyth told me that these supplied microphones have very flat frequency response). So, automatic headphone EQ by the A16 will be a great feature/bonus (when/if we receive our A16s).

Mr. Smyth also told me that the majority of people have similar outer-ear acoustic properties -- As I recall, he found that the same A16 PRIR file works just fine for roughly 85% to 90% of A16 users(PRIR is a measurement file made using the listener's own head). I further understood that this common/general-user PRIR file is to be included with your A16s -- files for typical room acoustic environments (plus, there's the Smyth Online Exchange website for PRIR measurements).

The promised PRIR files and/or exchange was made after the first realizer, which I also bought over a decade ago. It has not materialized, for one there may be legal challenges as the venue where these files are created may have ownership rights, etc.
Still, the few PRIR recordings I made over the years using the first Realiser was enough for my blind faith in the Realiser A16, now nearly 3 years ago. The Realiser is that good! I really do not understand why the A16 is taking this long, the feedback from Smyth have been few and not with a lot of clarity. Still, we the faithful continue to wait.

 

[musicday]

I am quite sure if they wanted can have other companies with finance ready to invest in the A16 and take it to another level. Most likely they are not interested and go at their own peace no matter how slow the process may be.

 

[paulchiu]

I am quite sure if they wanted can have other companies with finance ready to invest in the A16 and take it to another level. Most likely they are not interested and go at their own peace no matter how slow the process may be.

If it's like Stax, then we will all wait another 50 years.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

OK, back to the A16 here.

A couple of years ago I got a demo of the A16 prototype conducted by Mr. Smyth, the designer, at NYC Canjam show.
The spacial 3D effect with headphones was indeed as good as claimed.

I was also impressed when Mr. Smyth told me that the user's headphones & ear combo frequency response is initially calibrated using the supplied in-ear microphones (Smyth told me that these supplied microphones have very flat frequency response). So, automatic headphone EQ by the A16 will be a great feature/bonus (when/if we receive our A16s).

Mr. Smyth also told me that the majority of people have similar outer-ear acoustic properties -- As I recall, he found that the same A16 PRIR file works just fine for roughly 85% to 90% of A16 users(PRIR is a measurement file made using the listener's own head). I further understood that this common/general-user PRIR file is to be included with your A16s -- files for typical room acoustic environments (plus, there's the Smyth Online Exchange website for PRIR measurements).

That would mean a generic PRIR would work for most people, and purveyors of such systems would (as long as they offered head tracking) be valid alternatives to the $4k+ Realizer. At least with respect to its core function.