[435279]

I think a lot of people don't realize how much the amplification matters here. I was using the Chord Hugo 2, which was supposed to be TOTL, but now am listening with an old Schitt Magni instead of directly out of the headphone outlet of the CH2, and find the sound much better. I think the CH2 is an amazing DAC, but it's not a very good headphone amplifier unless your headphones are above 32Ohms, and otherwise relatively easy to drive.

This has been discussed to some length over on the Hugo 2 thread. There is nothing wrong with the Hugo 2 output stage it is plenty powerful for 99% of headphones, its just that you prefer the sound signature of your Schitt Magni.

No problem we are all different and like different things.

 

[jdpark]

Lol. It's all about output impedance and noise floor. The Hugo 2 is makes a lot of noise, and has been measured at 1.7 Ohms output which is a bit too high for the 846. I'm not sure what the original Magni was, but I think they advertised near 0 Ohms output, and you can hear the difference quite clearly. With my full-sized cans I prefer a more refined amp, and there it is a subjective matter, since the Hugo 2 can drive them. However a good amp offers a wider soundstage, and a smoother overall sound-signature. (Btw, my Etymotic XR4 (32Ohm) sound best straight from the Hugo2 or Mojo, and don't benefit from any other amplification.)

 

[csglinux]

Lol. It's all about output impedance and noise floor. The Hugo 2 is makes a lot of noise, and has been measured at 1.7 Ohms output which is a bit too high for the 846. I'm not sure what the original Magni was, but I think they advertised near 0 Ohms output, and you can hear the difference quite clearly. With my full-sized cans I prefer a more refined amp, and there it is a subjective matter, since the Hugo 2 can drive them. However a good amp offers a wider soundstage, and a smoother overall sound-signature. (Btw, my Etymotic XR4 (32Ohm) sound best straight from the Hugo2 or Mojo, and don't benefit from any other amplification.)

Schiit Magni specs from here: https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1

Z-out: < 0.3 Ohm
THD: <0.001%
SNR: > 108 dB

Hugo 2:

Z-out: 0.025 Ohm
THD: <0.0001%
SNR:120dB

So on the items you claim matter (z-out and noise), Hugo 2 wins by orders of magnitude. I have a lot of respect for Amir and his work, but in this instance, he's either got a faulty H2 unit or he made some other mistake with his measurement of the output impedence. (He says as much in the fine print if you read all the way to the bottom.) There's no way on God's earth that the Hugo 2 has a 1.7 Ohm z-out. Hugo 2's z-out has absolutely zero impact on the FR of the SE846. 0.3 Ohm is very good too, but I can show you the effect of it on the SE846 and while it might not be audible to everybody, you can see the shift on a graph. (SE846 impedance drops to around 4 Ohm in the mid-range.)

I think Steve is right. There's just something you like better about the sound of the Magni, but it's likely just coloration (most probably from even-order harmonic distortion).

 

[JaZZ]

Lol. It's all about output impedance and noise floor. The Hugo 2 is makes a lot of noise, and has been measured at 1.7 Ohms output which is a bit too high for the 846. I'm not sure what the original Magni was, but I think they advertised near 0 Ohms output, and you can hear the difference quite clearly. With my full-sized cans I prefer a more refined amp, and there it is a subjective matter, since the Hugo 2 can drive them. However a good amp offers a wider soundstage, and a smoother overall sound-signature. (Btw, my Etymotic XR4 (32Ohm) sound best straight from the Hugo2 or Mojo, and don't benefit from any other amplification.)

You seem to forget that you add another (useless) amplification stage to the Hugo₂'s headphone output (signal path identical with line out), hence an objective improvement is impossible, the less so as its effective output impedance is just 0.025 Ω, so most likely lower than the Magni's. The linked review has been marked as untrustworthy several times on this forum. I take it that you like the sound you get from the signal-path detour better, but recommend to play with filters and filter mods instead or even equalizing (like myself) to be able to renounce the second amplification stage that can only introduce inaccuracies, technically speaking.

BTW, you're not alone with your preference for a less accurate reproduction, which is prone to also introduce some forgivingness in terms of (mostly sound-transducer related) tonal flaws. Therefore my suggestion for other ways to modify sonic characteristic and tonal balance than via amplifier colorations. A sound as neutral and accurate as possible (over-all) will in most cases be the most pleasurable. Maybe your second amp will still add a little soundstage width to the mix, though... or some sweetness to the treble or some oomph to the bass – but accuracy it won't add.

 

[jdpark]

I always forget how Head-fi is more of a cult than an actual place where people come to learn information. You can't just buy what the manufacturer says. The 846 doesn't sound very good with any Chord product compared to what the 846 is actually capable of. The Hugo 2 doesn't actually have an output impedance of 0.00000000001 or whatever they tell you. It's actual output has been measured at 1.7 Oms. Until another 3rd party does a scientific test that proves otherwise, that's the real number.

 

[JaZZ]

Apparently you're not open to reasonable suggestions...

I've seen a measurement (or two) of the Hugo₂'s output impedance in line with the specs (just can't find it anymore), moreover csglinux has provided you with important data to the matter indicating that the source you keep referring to is unreliable, but you prefer to believe what you believe, also about the logic of «double amping».

And BTW, I own an SE846 and drive it with Chord DAC/amps with all imaginable modifications I have tried to make palatable to you...

Well, just stay within your frame of belief, it's probably what you deserve.

 

[jdpark]

Okay, yeah, I did some more listening tests and I think I was just listening much LOUDER on the Magni. But, I still claim the Hugo 2 is not the Holy Grail of amplifiers for the Shure 846, and secondly, I still think the 846 needs a good amplifier, which I still haven't found.

 

[csglinux]

Strange days indeed. 99.99999% of scientists will say that the earth is round, but we have folks that instead choose to believe one random dude in a tin-foil hat.

@jdpark, since you clearly wouldn't trust my measurements, go grab a precision multimeter and a resistor and measure it yourself:

 

[JaZZ]

The best amplifier is a wire without gain. If something's still lacking, don't try to fix it with reamplifying! I've already made some suggestions, but do what you like.

 

[jdpark]

@csglinux , I just said I don't trust Chord to do their own measurements. Your measurements are welcome, indeed. I don't have time to measure, myself, and am thus stuck with Amir's measurements until someone else does them or shows theirs to me.

@JaZZ , if you would be so kind as to link me to your recommendations for an amp of the 846, I would appreciate. Contrary to what Chord says, they are amplifying the sound. They aren't using discrete op amps, fine, but they are amplifying in the most basic sense. I realize if you don't use their lingo around here, you get sent up to the lava mountain for sacrifice, but in the end of the day all headphones and all speakers get amplified or they don't make noise.

 

[JaZZ]

@JaZZ, if you would be so kind as to link me to your recommendations for an amp of the 846, I would appreciate. Contrary to what Chord says, they are amplifying the sound. They aren't using discrete op amps, fine, but they are amplifying in the most basic sense. I realize if you don't use their lingo around here, you get sent up to the lava mountain for sacrifice, but in the end of the day all headphones and all speakers get amplified or they don't make noise.

My recommendation stands: Don't use an external amp with Chord DAC/amps! Of course there's an amplifier in them, but it's just one single stage serving as both line out and headphone out – in the interest of maximal accuracy. What you hear from your headphone is basically the DAC itself in all its glory. Now when you attach an external amp, this one has to be fed with the signal from the Hugo₂'s headphone output, thus the «amp» that you consider «not good enough» is still in the signal path (can't be bypassed!) and you add a useless amplification stage. Given that neutral and 100% transparent amps don't exist, you have degraded the signal by doing so, like it or not (pun intended). If you have to have an amp nonetheless – against all logic –, stick with the one you already have. It is a fine colouring instrument by all means, and if you like the colours...

 

[TigerAlex]

Okay, yeah, I did some more listening tests and I think I was just listening much LOUDER on the Magni. But, I still claim the Hugo 2 is not the Holy Grail of amplifiers for the Shure 846, and secondly, I still think the 846 needs a good amplifier, which I still haven't found.

Make simple get the A&K Kann Cube With your SE846 and problem resolved.

 

[csglinux]

Make simple get the A&K Kann Cube With your SE846 and problem resolved.

Except.... Kann Cube's z-out is 1.2 Ohm (SE) and 1.6 Ohm (balanced). It will skew the SE846's FR slightly.

 

[ZappaMan]

i like your avatar jdpark. I trust you.

 

[TigerAlex]

Except.... Kann Cube's z-out is 1.2 Ohm (SE) and 1.6 Ohm (balanced). It will skew the SE846's FR slightly.

What?? Really??? Is this what your ears are telling you? Come on man, keep it simple, just give it a try you will love the sound of the Cube paired with your SE846.