[kfscoll]

I do have a pair of RS170s for use in my bedroom (I needed the closed-back version, hence the 170 over the 180) and for what they are, and especially considering the price point, they're pretty impressive.  I certainly didn't come away with the impression that the RS220 was worth 2x the price over the RS170.

 

[otinkyad]

Quote:

I went back and re-read some older posts, like the one above. When you say the SQ of the RS180 isn't as good, is that just a sound signature preference, or are there technical reasons at play (e.g., detail, clarity, sound stage, etc.)?

 
I'm not very confident in my ability to describe sound signatures, but to me, the RS220 had better midrange, better depth (just sounded "richer"), and better soundstage, and an overall warmer sound.  You're absolutely right that my calling this difference "better" is inherently subjective.  However, there does seem to be an opinion on headfi that initially one may tend to like sound signatures with bright treble and prominent bass, but that over time, one's preference often shifts toward liking the midrange with detailed but not prominent treble and bass -- certainly that's the trajectory my tastes have followed.  So four months ago I might have said that those differences made the RS220 sound worse and lacking in clarity (treble), but now to me it sounds "better". 
 
If you do prefer a high treble, high bass signature, you might like the RS120 even better.  I would highly recommend your trying it -- it's about $65 on Amazon, which is 1/10th the price of the RS220, and 1/5th the price of the RS180.  I've been puzzled why the RS120 gets mentioned so little.  You do get some static (unlike RS180), but also better range than RS180 (so, few dropouts even quite far from the transmitter), and in my opinion those two limitations trade off against each other.
 

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

Again, check out the review by someone who professionally reviews headphones:
http://www.headfonia.com/sennheiser-rs180/

I did read Mike's review, which was definitely encouraging. However, at the time, he didn't have the RS220 to compare to, so there's no way to put his perspective on the 180 in context with the later model. (I've checked for a review of the RS220 on Headfonia, and didn't find one. If you're aware of one, please feel free to post a link.) He also didn't comment on technical aspects, such as range, dropouts, etc. Those are the main things keeping me from going for the RS220 at this point, rather than the sound itself, and it would have been useful if Mike could have commented on those aspects of the RS180.

I've been puzzled why the RS120 gets mentioned so little.  You do get some static (unlike RS180), but also better range than RS180 (so, few dropouts even quite far from the transmitter), and in my opinion those two limitations trade off against each other.

I didn't think the RS120 was made with Kleer, and so doesn't have a true, "lossless" signal capable of reproducing in full redbook quality. Before my interest in the RS180 and RS220, I was primarily considering a wired setup - something along the lines of maybe an HD650 with a Shiit Valhalla, among others. (The options change frequently, but the standard is mid-level audiophile grade.) Just out of curiosity, I started checking out the RS180 and immediately heard about the forthcoming RS220, which Jude said was the first wireless headphone he could recommend as a primary. Given the convenience of it being self-amped, with its own DAC, that seemed very appealing. But my goal is still to get an audiophile-grade setup. I just assumed (whether rightly or wrongly) that the lower-level wireless cans didn't really qualify.

 

[nonsupremous]

The 220 is the only model that has a optic connection right?

 

[otinkyad]

Quote:

The 220 is the only model that has a optic connection right?

Right, RS120/170/180 don't have an optical input.

 

[maped]

My take on the RS120 vs RS180 vs RS220 is that at least the version of 120 I bought five years ago, was considerably worse in both range and sound quality than the 180, and that the difference was much bigger than between 180 and 220. I used the 120's for three years, but can't remember much else than the constant annoyance of the static in the background and that after two years they were falling apart. Once I got the 180's, I ditched them almost immediately. If Sennheiser hasn't made any significant changes to them, I'd definately pony up for at least the RS160 that can be had for just under 200$ and should basically have a similar sound to 180's. 
 
180 vs 220 is more difficult one, especially considering the shortcomings of DSSS vs Kleer, but soundwise I'd say the biggest difference is the soundstage and separation 220 provides and how much better it makes the listening experience, especially with music. 180 just hits you with all the sound in one big lump, whereas 220 spreads it over a bigger area and layers it to so that you can either conciously concentrate on one aspect of the sound or just let it wash over you and immerse into it. 180 might even very well have the same extension of highs and lows, but it's much harder to tell them apart from the mass of sound, and it can also be quite tiring on some music that already has the same "in your face" -representation in the recording. Other that that [IMHO huge] omission, they have a pretty similar sound, in that both are generally very easy to listen and even completely tune out of the music if you need to concentrate on something else, and also forgiving to poor sources. There are no offending highs, booming bass or sibilance unless it is extremely accentuated in the recording. In movies or tv use there isn't that much difference, but the 220's soundstage has fooled me a couple of times to think that it's my phone that's ringing or that a siren is blaring outside my house instead of the program I'm watching, whereas the 180 hasn't done that in two years. Speech intelligibility is also pretty similar.
 
But again, take my impressions with a grain of salt, since RS180 is pretty much the only yardstick I have, I can't comment on how big the difference actually is or if something wired  would be leagues ahead of them both. I have recently bought Sony MDR-EX600 iem's, so I might later try to give some kind of comparison to them, as much as it is possible or viable with different type of headphones.

 

[jude]

The RS 180 is outstanding (and much more affordable than the RS 220). But, to my ears, the RS 180 simply did not approach the detail retrieval and resolution of the RS 220. Simply put, the RS 220 sounded far closer to wired than the RS 180 or RS 170 (I haven't heard the RS 160).
 
Several people at our Michigan Meet (a little over a week ago) heard the RS 220 at my office, and were just as wowed by it. A couple of the guys walked around the office with it while it was playing (my office is only around 1500 square feet or less, with just a few rooms), and dropouts were not an issue there (in brief listening).
 
Again, as for the DSSS, I'm one of the ones who has not had any dropout issues (either at home, or now at the office), except for when I escape its range.

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

Right, RS120/170/180 don't have an optical input.

I believe the RS220 is also unique among the Senn wireless models in having co-axial digital input, as well.

 

[PhilW]

Quote:

Is there anyone with the dropout issue, who called Sennheiser Tech Support ?
 

We have found that anyone who is having any issues with the RS220 try charging the batteries for quite a few hours prior to listening and see if you get drop outs of any kind. We have found that the green batteries supplied need a good charge prior to listening to the RS220.

 

[betavince]

Quote:

We have found that anyone who is having any issues with the RS220 try charging the batteries for quite a few hours prior to listening and see if you get drop outs of any kind. We have found that the green batteries supplied need a good charge prior to listening to the RS220.

That's an interesting suggestion.  In addition to the dropouts, the other problem I have is that the batteries never seem fully charged.  In the month that I've had them I always put them on the base for charging when not in use and the recharging light has only gone out maybe twice.  They can be fully charged. I listen to them for an hour, leave them charging overnight and the red light is still on.  So it may be a problem with either the batteries or the charging mechanism, so that they seldom reach full charge.

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

Betavince, have you tried putting in fresh, standard (non-rechargeable) AAAs - or even rechargeables fully charged on an external charger - just to see if it makes a difference in the dropouts?

Custom-cable's suggestion is interesting, and I would love it if the fix were that simple. However, I am a bit doubtful if, out of all the members here experiencing dropout issues, not one of them fully charged the batteries, unless that's a design defect itself.

 

[betavince]

Quote:

Betavince, have you tried putting in fresh, standard (non-rechargeable) AAAs - or even rechargeables fully charged on an external charger - just to see if it makes a difference in the dropouts?
 

When I first got them I used fresh commercial AAAs because I didn't want to wait until the supplied batteries fully charged.  I don't remember any issues until I used the "fully charged" Sennheiser ones.
 
At this point, I'm done experimenting.  I just returned a new router.  I thought that my five year old Airport Extreme just couldn't keep up with the RS 220's newfangled technology.  But the problem just got worse with the stronger wi-fi signal of the updated one.  I seemed to have solved the problem by setting my new old router to a specific channel and placing the transmitter as far as possible from the router without putting it in the hallway or a neighbor's apartment.  But I'm still in the constant vigil mode, scanning the lovely soundstage for any blips in the sound.

 

[jude]

As for the charging: The RS 220 I have here does the same thing. The charge light will turn off (indicating a full charge), but it can take a long time before that happens. Most of the time, when the headphone is on the stand, the light is on, as I use it a lot. I don't wait for the charge light to turn off to use it, and I haven't had any problems with shorter-than-expected battery life, so I suspect that the circuit behind the charge light has a sensor/circuitry that has a very stringent standard for shutting that light off.
 
In short, mine does the same thing, but I haven't concerned myself with it, and I don't think I've experienced any penalty for it.

 

[jude]

 
Quote:

We have found that anyone who is having any issues with the RS220 try charging the batteries for quite a few hours prior to listening and see if you get drop outs of any kind. We have found that the green batteries supplied need a good charge prior to listening to the RS220.

I'm not experiencing the micro-dropouts some here have described, even with prolonged use (long enough that the batteries are definitely not running at full charge).
 
That said, I'm interested in finding out if what you're suggesting helps those who have had the issue.
 

 

[PhilW]

It would be interesting to see if it helps others for sure. I have found that the base is very directional, if you are infront of it it is fine however if going to the room behind the base it can drop out. I remember at IFA one of the Sennheiser technicians i'm sure was saying how the batteries in the RS220 needs to be of the highest quality 800mAh. I was not overly sure of the relevance of this statement until they arrived with us and made sure that they units we charged properly. I'll be following the thread for any developments.