[John Willett]

Quote:

I wouldn't call metal and wood "crap." They've been used successfully to produce musical instruments for thousands of years. There are some very fine headphones that use these materials, the Sony R10 for example. The way the zelkova earcups in the R10 were engineered to orient the drivers is a work of art in and of itself.

Of course metal and wood have been used in making musical instruments - they are designed to vibrate and resonate, that's the whole point.
 
In headphones you want them to be inert and to replay the music without adding any vibration and resonation of their own.
 
The only thing you say is they make headphones look better, not sound better.
 
 
As I said - crap.

 
 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Oh - the HD 800 is massively better than the HD 650.  But it is also really bright and sibilant and some people just like an accurate sound as opposed to what sounds like a tweeter being shoved up your butt. 

 

The HD 800 does not sound bright and sibilant to me - only - exactly like the musical instrument I originally recorded.
 
I find the 800 shows up the recording chain (which is why I use them).  If you record with bright microphones and a bright pre-amp the CD will sound bright.
 
 
 

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Of course metal and wood have been used in making musical instruments - they are designed to vibrate and resonate, that's the whole point.
 
In headphones you want them to be inert and to replay the music without adding any vibration and resonation of their own.
 
The only thing you say is they make headphones look better, not sound better.
 
 
As I said - crap.

 
 

Have you ever listened to the R10?
 
Not all headphones are designed with utmost transparency in mind. Some headphones are designed with an ear for euphony, in which case woods DO make them sound "better." Better in this instance being a subjective non-quantifiable value. They're referred to as tonewoods, which are used in instruments as well to impart a certain harmonic quality to the sound.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Have you ever listened to the R10?

No, I don't need to - they look horrible and are hi-fi headphones designed to sound nice.
 
I have never heard of a recording engineer use the R10, though I know of several who use the HD 800.
 
I don't want headphones like that - I want headphones that are accurate and revealing above all other things.
 
 
Remember, what I, personally, look for in equipment may be very different from what you are looking for.  You choose what is best for you.
 

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Remember, what I, personally, look for in equipment may be very different from what you are looking for.  You choose what is best for you.
 

Indeed. But I don't go calling what others look for "crap" just because it's not what I'm looking for.

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Quote:

The HD 800 does not sound bright and sibilant to me - only - exactly like the musical instrument I originally recorded.
 
I find the 800 shows up the recording chain (which is why I use them).  If you record with bright microphones and a bright pre-amp the CD will sound bright.
 

I personally disagree -- I found that the HD800 added treble energy, sibilance and airiness that was not present on the recording AND was likely not related to my gear, as similarly revealing headphones (like the T1) did not produce the same effect.
 

 

[Anaxilus]

T1 is similarly revealing?  Nvm.

 

[john57]

[size=medium]I certainly do not want to orchestra players playing on plastic instruments in a plastic concert hall. I would run out of a place like that. Wood cups on headphones usually isolate outside sounds better than plastic cups on headphone unless you put in lots of damping and putty. I did wish that the plastic cups Denon D2000 cups have better damping since it did not offer much sound isolation from noise in the room. Plastic superior to wood?  Plastic will resonate. If I go by that reasoning, then the Denon D5000 and the D7000 headphones which have wood cups is going to sound like crap as compared to the Denon D2000. violin Can the very old valuable violins keep up with the latest modern violins?  The wood cups options on the Fisher Audio headphone have been aged four years to minimize variations. Bottom line, each technology advances brings its own set of limitations. [/size]

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

T1 is similarly revealing?  Nvm.

Absolutely. Moreso, I'd say, since it doesn't add that hifi sheen to everything like the HD800.

 

[ac500]

Where is this notion coming from that headphones produce sound from their enclosure material? What you want to AVOID is adding coloration to the sound. Even if we say for a moment that adding wood to a headphone lets them more accurately reproduce wooden instruments like violin, piano, etc., then your argument is going to fall flat when the topic of brass instruments, electric guitar, and any other kind of music comes up.
 
If a certain coloration sounds best to you then that's fine, and it's your preference, but in general a neutral and uncolored sound is sought after in hifi. I'd bet that engineered polymers are more likely to act neutrally than arbitrary woods. At least with polymers you can actually chemically adjust them and mold them to achieve the ideal sonic properties you're looking for.
 
As for bright versus dark, I'll just say that I have never heard a real life violin or trumpet that did not have piercing and vibrant treble all the way up to 20khz (and probably beyond). You may very well dislike that, and that's okay, but don't disillusion yourself and others to think that real life is dark sounding. While my dark HD650s are remarkably natural sounding, they do need a bit of a treble boost to avoid brass and string instruments from sounding like they're playing from inside a foam-padded cell.
 
Anyway, it's not too surprising I guess that any discussion about "LCD2" vs "HD800" is going to become a holy war. Face it, the LCD2 has recessed treble -- you can argue until you run out of breath how much you prefer having recessed treble, but you cannot deny the fact itself. Similarly, most people will tell you the HD800 is a little hot or bright. As to which sound you prefer, that's an individual choice.
 
> Oh - the HD 800 is massively better than the HD 650.  But it is also really bright and sibilant and some people just like an accurate sound as opposed to what sounds like a tweeter being shoved up your butt. 
 
In any case, the HD700 as far as we know is going to be more bright than dark, so those who prefer the LCD2 sound and hate nonrecessed treble can, as rythmdevils put it, stick a subwoofer up their [blank]. ( KIDDING )

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Absolutely. Moreso, I'd say, since it doesn't add that hifi sheen to everything like the HD800.

Perceived 'sheen' as you put it has nothing to do w/ resolving power but that's how I bracket my listening parameters.  I humbly disagree the two are in the same class.
 

 

[Jodet]

Every day I read through pages of blather and nonsense looking for comments from someone who has actually heard the HD700.
 
The signal to noise ratio in this thread is pretty bad.
 
 

 

[GiacomoHoldini]

Quote:

[size=medium]I certainly do not want to orchestra players playing on plastic instruments in a plastic concert hall. I would run out of a place like that. Wood cups on headphones usually isolate outside sounds better than plastic cups on headphone unless you put in lots of damping and putty. I did wish that the plastic cups Denon D2000 cups have better damping since it did not offer much sound isolation from noise in the room. Plastic superior to wood?  Plastic will resonate. If I go by that reasoning, then the Denon D5000 and the D7000 headphones which have wood cups is going to sound like crap as compared to the Denon D2000. violin Can the very old valuable violins keep up with the latest modern violins?  The wood cups options on the Fisher Audio headphone have been aged four years to minimize variations. Bottom line, each technology advances brings its own set of limitations. [/size]

I'm still not clear why people are comparing musical instruments to headphones.  As John Willett pointed out, you're looking for two different things with them.  The instrument is what makes the sound in the first place.  Of course you're going to want it to be made of material that makes the most pleasing sound.  With headphones, or any hi-fi equipment for that matter, the goal is transparency, to impart as few distortions or as little coloration to the music as possible.  I'm not saying wood can't be used as a good headphone material necessarily, but making the comparison to plastic instruments in a plastic concert hall seems to miss the point. 
 
Also, regarding isolation of outside sounds, both the HD800 and HD700 are open headphones, so I don't think isolation is even in the cards, unless I'm misunderstanding your meaning.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Every day I read through pages of blather and nonsense looking for comments from someone who has actually heard the HD700.
 
The signal to noise ratio in this thread is pretty bad.

Sadly I think the people who have posted impressions on this thread are all you'll get till the phone is released.
 

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
No, I don't need to - they look horrible and are hi-fi headphones designed to sound nice.
 

You know you're a fanboy when you're aloof towards the R10.