[bagwell359]

I have the HE400i and the HD600. Although the 400i has deeper bass, the distorted midrange on classical voice recordings and acoustic piano takes it out of the running for me. I rarely use the 400i.

I have the HD-600, HE-500, and MD-4xx.

The HE-500 with fuzzor mod, Ether C Angled Pads, and driven thru XLR by a Ragnarok is easily superior to the other two. In really every way vs the 4XX. Under certain circumstances the HD-600 gets close, but overall given what I listen to, it's a 90% easy win for the 500 and 10% pretty close.

But before I got the 500 the 600 and 4XX did pretty good battle with each other. 600 for def, 4XX for overall beoing punchier in the bass and getting to the emotional core of the music better. 4XX isn't a ref phone, the 600 is a ref for timbre and flat frequency response but those that think it's SOTA for definition - go listen to the HFM HEX V2 or HD-800.

All 3 are great values used - for sure. Enjoy them, but I can only sometimes find myself in the music with the HE-500 and never forget the other two are transducers.

 

[yangian]

I have the HD-600, HE-500, and MD-4xx.

The HE-500 with fuzzor mod, Ether C Angled Pads, and driven thru XLR by a Ragnarok is easily superior to the other two. In really every way vs the 4XX. Under certain circumstances the HD-600 gets close, but overall given what I listen to, it's a 90% easy win for the 500 and 10% pretty close.

But before I got the 500 the 600 and 4XX did pretty good battle with each other. 600 for def, 4XX for overall beoing punchier in the bass and getting to the emotional core of the music better. 4XX isn't a ref phone, the 600 is a ref for timbre and flat frequency response but those that think it's SOTA for definition - go listen to the HFM HEX V2 or HD-800.

All 3 are great values used - for sure. Enjoy them, but I can only sometimes find myself in the music with the HE-500 and never forget the other two are transducers.

I use Stephen cable and this pads:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Pa...0-HD280s-HD280Pro-Momentum-2/32828242855.html

600 is also much better than stocks.
Did you have XLR balanced cable for 600?

 

[Xbmyc]

Depends on what you have to spend, and what your equipment is, and what you like to listen too.

If I am looking for something under 800 USD, what would be the best upgrade? Considering I really enjoyed the HD600 for what it does best.

 

[bagwell359]

I use Stephen cable and this pads:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Pa...0-HD280s-HD280Pro-Momentum-2/32828242855.html

600 is also much better than stocks.
Did you have XLR balanced cable for 600?

I use the HD-600 with an XLR that's about 45" long by Custom Cans. No question it sounds better in that config than the stock SE cable - but I ascribe about 98% of that to the change to XLR which about doubles the wattage in.

I also have a cheapo after market XLR for the MD 4XX.

My HE-500 uses the supposedly meh stock silver wire cut to about 45" running XLR.

It doesn't matter. The 4XX sounds more of a piece than the 600 although point by point the 600 tends to win comparisons with the 4XX. But in my set-up the 500 beats the 600 in most every area, in particular in sounding real.

The voicing of the 600 is great, the lack of whompy incorrect bass is a blessing, it's neutrality is notable. The 500 has a richer more nuanced midrange, much more impact in the bass, low bass under 60 Hz present (not so much the 600), and the overtones, stage depth, low level detail retrieval from the treble of the 500 doesn't just outpace the 600, it is distinctly and obviously better in virtually every piece of music I can name.

 

[yangian]

I use the HD-600 with an XLR that's about 45" long by Custom Cans. No question it sounds better in that config than the stock SE cable - but I ascribe about 98% of that to the change to XLR which about doubles the wattage in.

I also have a cheapo after market XLR for the MD 4XX.

My HE-500 uses the supposedly meh stock silver wire cut to about 45" running XLR.

It doesn't matter. The 4XX sounds more of a piece than the 600 although point by point the 600 tends to win comparisons with the 4XX. But in my set-up the 500 beats the 600 in most every area, in particular in sounding real.

The voicing of the 600 is great, the lack of whompy incorrect bass is a blessing, it's neutrality is notable. The 500 has a richer more nuanced midrange, much more impact in the bass, low bass under 60 Hz present (not so much the 600), and the overtones, stage depth, low level detail retrieval from the treble of the 500 doesn't just outpace the 600, it is distinctly and obviously better in virtually every piece of music I can name.

Take a look at this site: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...y_headphone_discussion_10_hifiman_he500he560/
Some quotes:
Actually, history correction. The original name for the HE-500 was the HE-6p (portable). It was meant to be an easy-to-drive HE-6, but it sounded so different that they just changed it completely.
I've owned the HE-500 three or so times and I just can't get on board with it. It sounds a little too artificial and muddy for me even with the Focus pads, dust cover removal, and the Fuzzor mod. I'd actually take the HD600 over it on most days.

HE500>HE400i>HE560 for me in terms of sound.

The HE400i/HE500 are not very different from each other at all. The HE500 handles the highs a tad better (and thus has a better impulse response...which has an inverse polarity for some reason) and the HE400i is more mid-forward (which makes it sound like it lacks air/soundstage because it is slightly more focused on being a heavier sound.)

Anyway, sound appreciation is too subjective. I appreciate anyone's opinion and my opinions are my own.

BTW, one aspect I hate of HE400i is its weight. I may sell it eventually due to its weight. If any headphone is weightier than it, I'll definitely take not.

 

[DavidA]

Take a look at this site: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...y_headphone_discussion_10_hifiman_he500he560/
Some quotes:
Actually, history correction. The original name for the HE-500 was the HE-6p (portable). It was meant to be an easy-to-drive HE-6, but it sounded so different that they just changed it completely.
I've owned the HE-500 three or so times and I just can't get on board with it. It sounds a little too artificial and muddy for me even with the Focus pads, dust cover removal, and the Fuzzor mod. I'd actually take the HD600 over it on most days.

HE500>HE400i>HE560 for me in terms of sound.

The HE400i/HE500 are not very different from each other at all. The HE500 handles the highs a tad better (and thus has a better impulse response...which has an inverse polarity for some reason) and the HE400i is more mid-forward (which makes it sound like it lacks air/soundstage because it is slightly more focused on being a heavier sound.)

Anyway, sound appreciation is too subjective. I appreciate anyone's opinion and my opinions are my own.

BTW, one aspect I hate of HE400i is its weight. I may sell it eventually due to its weight. If any headphone is weightier than it, I'll definitely take not.

Looking at your profile I didn't notice any amp that would do justice to the HE500 or any planar but you have some good amps for the HD600 so could this be the reason for your preferences?

 

[bagwell359]

If I am looking for something under 800 USD, what would be the best upgrade? Considering I really enjoyed the HD600 for what it does best.

There was a used HFM HEX V2 last week on Amazon for like $810. There is a NIB one at Audio46 in NYC for $999 w/ 10% off - I have no connection to either. IMO its a planar version of the 800. Used 800's are common too.

 

[yangian]

Looking at your profile I didn't notice any amp that would do justice to the HE500 or any planar but you have some good amps for the HD600 so could this be the reason for your preferences?

No, I don't have HE500, I only have HE400i. So I never comment on the sound of HE500.
No, Bravo Ocean is at least good for HE400i and my portable tube amp Ladys is pretty good for it. Bravo Ocean is much better than the stock amp. part of Zdac V2, which is good/great for planar (high current) cans from a review article.

 

[bagwell359]

Take a look at this site: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...y_headphone_discussion_10_hifiman_he500he560/
Some quotes:
Actually, history correction. The original name for the HE-500 was the HE-6p (portable). It was meant to be an easy-to-drive HE-6, but it sounded so different that they just changed it completely.

It is begotton from the HE-6, true. About 15% of reviewers say they are very close in sound. Some like the 500 better because you don't need a big amp to drive it, and also the HE-6 treble w/o mods are difficult to take.

I've owned the HE-500 three or so times and I just can't get on board with it. It sounds a little too artificial and muddy for me even with the Focus pads, dust cover removal, and the Fuzzor mod. I'd actually take the HD600 over it on most days.

Artificial? Compared to the HD-600? Those are words I would never parse into a sentence. Dust cover removal i do not favor for reasons I have given previously about 6 times.. Focus pads are well inferior to the ones I use, see the 500 thread yesterday I posted what the 500 main thread does with them (# of post given by me). Its as flat as the 600, which is a tough claim for any can. Go ahead and track it down in the HE-500... "enjoyable'

HE500>HE400i>HE560 for me in terms of sound.

no argument there.

The HE400i/HE500 are not very different from each other at all.

Sorry, that's not at all a claim I can agree with in a single way. The 500 buries the 400i and 4XX in every single way. What were you running the 500 with? It does need a pretty decent amp.

BTW, one aspect I hate of HE400i is its weight. I may sell it eventually due to its weight. If any headphone is weightier than it, I'll definitely take not.

I 'd bear any weight for the best sound.

EDIT add: I checked the polarity of my 500 abut two weeks back because I heard it reversed polarity - but it was correct (they are 2nd hand so perhaps the prior owner flipped them?

 

[yangian]

Sorry, that's not at all a claim I can agree with in a single way. The 500 buries the 400i and 4XX in every single way. What were you running the 500 with? It does need a pretty decent amp.

I think it's an issue of cost-effective. I depends how much you pay for. I bought 400i for $120. Actually it's better than 600 based on performance/price ratio.

 

[DavidA]

No, I don't have HE500, I only have HE400i. So I never comment on the sound of HE500.
No, Bravo Ocean is at least good for HE400i and my portable tube amp Ladys is pretty good for it. Bravo Ocean is much better than the stock amp. part of Zdac V2, which is good/great for planar (high current) cans from a review article.

In your prior post you said you owned the HE500 3 times so I figured that you would have at least tried a few different amps with them and you did rank them in comparison to the HE400i and HE560. You also did comment on the sound since you noted that the HE500 sounds artificial and muddy to you and you also comment that the HE400i and HE500 "are not very different from each other at all" and you rank them so this implies a comment on the sound.

While I don't own a Bravo Ocean I've borrowed one from a friend a few times and found them quite lacking to drive most of my planar headphones (HE400, HE400i, HE560, LCD-2f) but it was okay with the EL-8 open but I'd never consider the Bravo Ocean for my use or recommend them since it didn't seem to pair well with quite a few of my headphones.

Take a look at this site: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...y_headphone_discussion_10_hifiman_he500he560/
Some quotes:
Actually, history correction. The original name for the HE-500 was the HE-6p (portable). It was meant to be an easy-to-drive HE-6, but it sounded so different that they just changed it completely.
I've owned the HE-500 three or so times and I just can't get on board with it. It sounds a little too artificial and muddy for me even with the Focus pads, dust cover removal, and the Fuzzor mod. I'd actually take the HD600 over it on most days.

HE500>HE400i>HE560 for me in terms of sound.

The HE400i/HE500 are not very different from each other at all. The HE500 handles the highs a tad better (and thus has a better impulse response...which has an inverse polarity for some reason) and the HE400i is more mid-forward (which makes it sound like it lacks air/soundstage because it is slightly more focused on being a heavier sound.)

Anyway, sound appreciation is too subjective. I appreciate anyone's opinion and my opinions are my own.

BTW, one aspect I hate of HE400i is its weight. I may sell it eventually due to its weight. If any headphone is weightier than it, I'll definitely take not.

 

[bagwell359]

More on HE-500 from 6 Moons review - 2011:

"the HE-500 is the currently best headphone of Fang's ortho stable if one has no super amp...

What matters is that the vocal band with the HE-500 is warmer, fuller and more 'musical' than over the HE-6...

The HE-500 finally cashes in on the promise of HifiMan's platform...

The HE-6 felt a bit like a high-strung Arabian stallion or prima donna - capable of true greatness on the right track but not easy to live with. The HE-500 is more settled, relaxed and coherent. Yet it doesn't relinquish the speed, articulation and lucidity which initially attracted attention to Fang Bian's ambitious revival of the orthodynamic can clan. Here the newest (but not most expensive) member is the crown jewel..."​

Many still hold that the HFM SE-6 is the best orthodynamic can of all time.

Artificial and muddy? Nah.

 

[bagwell359]

I think it's an issue of cost-effective. I depends how much you pay for. I bought 400i for $120. Actually it's better than 600 based on performance/price ratio.

Sure.

HE-500 $340 + pads $80 = $380
HD-600's cost me $300, cable ~$75 = $375
MD-4XX $170 new, cable $40 = $210

OK, cost ratio only the MD-4XX wins, but strangely over the past 8 months all my cans outside of the HE-500 get about 7% of my listening - just goes to show, quality wins over cost analysis in my home. When/if I find a better can than the 500, that too will get sidelined for most of the time.

 

[yangian]

Sure.

HE-500 $340 + pads $80 = $380
HD-600's cost me $300, cable ~$75 = $375
MD-4XX $170 new, cable $40 = $210

OK, cost ratio only the MD-4XX wins, but strangely over the past 8 months all my cans outside of the HE-500 get about 7% of my listening - just goes to show, quality wins over cost analysis in my home. When/if I find a better can than the 500, that too will get sidelined for most of the time.

You got too expensive 600! Great condition second hand on headfi is around $180. Brand new should be no more than $250.

 

[yangian]

In your prior post you said you owned the HE500 3 times so I figured that you would have at least tried a few different amps with them and you did rank them in comparison to the HE400i and HE560. You also did comment on the sound since you noted that the HE500 sounds artificial and muddy to you and you also comment that the HE400i and HE500 "are not very different from each other at all" and you rank them so this implies a comment on the sound.

While I don't own a Bravo Ocean I've borrowed one from a friend a few times and found them quite lacking to drive most of my planar headphones (HE400, HE400i, HE560, LCD-2f) but it was okay with the EL-8 open but I'd never consider the Bravo Ocean for my use or recommend them since it didn't seem to pair well with quite a few of my headphones.

Sorry, you misunderstood me! I wrote "some quotes," which I quote from the website that I gave.

Yes, My portable tube amplifier is better than Bravo Ocean. I havn't update amplifier for it since I'm not sure I'll keep it. It's too heavy for me, very uncomfortable. But anyway, I don't think a better amplifier like Amber can make a heaven/earth difference of it. Just like Val. 2 and Fiio E12 for 600. Yes, big difference, but it cannot change the character of the sound.