[bagwell359]

You got too expensive 600! Great condition second hand on headfi is around $180. Brand new should be no more than $250.

I bought the 600's 3-4 years ago after a price drop from Amazon. They were new. If I paid $180 for them it wouldn't change the amount of time I listen to them - see post #19336.

 

[yangian]

I bought the 600's 3-4 years ago after a price drop from Amazon. They were new. If I paid $180 for them it wouldn't change the amount of time I listen to them - see post #19336.

That's fine. Then why you keep those cans? You should sold others. Though I like 600 most, I still split my listening time among 600, 400i and 990 that I have, though 600 got more time than the other two.

 

[DavidA]

Sorry, you misunderstood me! I wrote "some quotes," which I quote from the website that I gave.

Yes, My portable tube amplifier is better than Bravo Ocean. I havn't update amplifier for it since I'm not sure I'll keep it. It's too heavy for me, very uncomfortable. But anyway, I don't think a better amplifier like Amber can make a heaven/earth difference of it. Just like Val. 2 and Fiio E12 for 600. Yes, big difference, but it cannot change the character of the sound.

I take it that English is not your first language so that is part of the confusion here.

As for amps making a difference and in the case of the Ember it can really affect how a headphone sounds due to the ability to adjust output impedance and roll tubes which affect different headphones differently. Using the HD600 as an example I could get rid of the 3.5-5khz peak that bothered me by setting the output impedance of the Ember to high (120ohms) and use a warm tube like a NOS Mullard but at the same time the HD600 looses its dynamics, sound even more one note bass, lack of bass even more noticeable and the mids become quite recessed and boring so I'd say there are some amps can change the character/tone of some headphones.

 

[yangian]

I take it that English is not your first language so that is part of the confusion here.

As for amps making a difference and in the case of the Ember it can really affect how a headphone sounds due to the ability to adjust output impedance and roll tubes which affect different headphones differently. Using the HD600 as an example I could get rid of the 3.5-5khz peak that bothered me by setting the output impedance of the Ember to high (120ohms) and use a warm tube like a NOS Mullard but at the same time the HD600 looses its dynamics, sound even more one note bass, lack of bass even more noticeable and the mids become quite recessed and boring so I'd say there are some amps can change the character/tone of some headphones.

Yes, English is not my first language. But for that post I think you didn't read carefully. But that's ok.

 

[bagwell359]

That's fine. Then why you keep those cans? You should sold others. Though I like 600 most, I still split my listening time among 600, 400i and 990 that I have, though 600 got more time than the other two.

I'm pretty busy. They are going soon, don't worry.

 

[javre76]

I took some suggestions about portable amps for my HD600 but they were kinda expencive. Lately the family budget is kinda tight and I cant afford more than 200 euro .. or a bit more.. do you know any portable amps that could work with HD600 and are about 200 euro ? Graham Slee Voyager is an option .. but wanted to know if there are any other which I could use ?

I know it is not a fancy one, but my FIIO A5 works very well with my HD600.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Haven't listened to these in months. I really should.

 

[ToTo Man]

I've been experimenting with the different output impedance settings offered by the AT-HA5050H headphone amp. It gives the choice of 0.1, 33, 82 and 120 ohms. I'd assumed going from 0.1 ohms to 120 ohms would turn my HD600s into a loose, uncontrolled and bloomy mess but I was wrong! The bass has indeed plumped out a little, but I'm more surprised by the effect it's had elsewhere. It seems to have improved the soundstage and fluidity, and has pushed the mids back a little whilst giving the top end a sweet and shimmering wetness. I really like the effect, but I'm confused because I thought that output impedance mainly affected bass response, and also headphones that have large impedance swings. The HD600's impedance curve between 1kHz and 10kHz is as flat as a pancake, though it does begin to rise slightly above 10kHz. Does this explain the effect I'm hearing? Is this why so many HD owners love the Bottlehead amp? I feel rather naughty because I am clearly violating the "less than 1/8th" rule between load and output impedance!...

 

[yangian]

I've been experimenting with the different output impedance settings offered by the AT-HA5050H headphone amp. It gives the choice of 0.1, 33, 82 and 120 ohms. I'd assumed going from 0.1 ohms to 120 ohms would turn my HD600s into a loose, uncontrolled and bloomy mess but I was wrong! The bass has indeed plumped out a little, but I'm more surprised by the effect it's had elsewhere. It seems to have improved the soundstage and fluidity, and has pushed the mids back a little whilst giving the top end a sweet and shimmering wetness. I really like the effect, but I'm confused because I thought that output impedance mainly affected bass response, and also headphones that have large impedance swings. The HD600's impedance curve between 1kHz and 10kHz is as flat as a pancake, though it does begin to rise slightly above 10kHz. Does this explain the effect I'm hearing? Is this why so many HD owners love the Bottlehead amp? I feel rather naughty because I am clearly violating the "less than 1/8th" rule between load and output impedance!...

Agree with my experience. I found OTL always give larger soundstage of 600.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Just listened to Karajan's Parsifal prelude, and wow HD600 still has "dat tone." KSE1500 is surely more accurate, and isolates more, but lacks the magical musicality of HD600.

 

[bagwell359]

The voicing of the 600 is great, the lack of whompy incorrect bass is a blessing, it's neutrality is notable. The 500 has a richer more nuanced midrange, much more impact in the bass, low bass under 60 Hz present (not so much the 600), and the overtones, stage depth, low level detail retrieval from the treble of the 500 doesn't just outpace the 600, it is distinctly and obviously better in virtually every piece of music I can name.

I've been A/B/Cing these 3 cans (HE-500, 4XX, HD-600) for days now. In no case does the 4XX ever sound better than the 600 and the 500 at the same time, so no further comments needed on that.

The 600 is a can of omission. It adds nothing. In some cases it does take away. Missing details. It takes away the the lowest 1 3/4 octaves of the bass, but unless its low organ notes or some man made signal there isn't much down there. In terms of pop/rock bass/drums it's there.

It's very good with well recorded instruments such as piano or acoustic guitar. Excellent with chamber music and even small pop music. I've even heard it sort out dynamic modern music - "Dead Can Dance" very well.

But it doesn't do subtle treble overtones like the 500, rowdy rock, nor does it do smoky room jazz quite right - both imaging and the resonance on stand up bass. The 600 is very clear on female vocals - my #1 thing. But its not as good as the 500, which adds a warmth and richness or a sharpness depending on the voice and mood. More real is better, no? Or seeming more real anyhow.

Now the 500 doesn't remove much, but it adds things. Is it ringing or THD? Was it designed in or a happy mistake? Or is it on balance simply more musical then the 600, if not more accurate? It's got a warm signature and the way I've modded it - it's quite flat. There are warmer cans, but they tend to be quite inaccurate frequency wise (at least under $1k). So the 500 is warm and accurate (more in some places than 600, less in others). The 600 is cool and accurate, but, isn't as accurate in places as the 500 or the HD-800. The 600 reminds me of Weather Report in 1974 or Eno post Roxy, or synth pop of the 80's - clean but cold. The 500 is like a Contralto that just got dumped fronting a six piece of ace players. Strong and making a statement.

One could have my amp, a Yggy, and a set of HD-800's (that type of sound kept me in the land of vinyl until 2014) - and I would rather listen to a DAP with the 4XX. One could have a tubed amp, gumby, and a 500, and I'd find that too much warmth, but at least I'd listen.

After all it comes down to preferences and budget.

500 - A
600 - A-
4XX - B/B-

 

[god-bluff]

I've been A/B/Cing these 3 cans (HE-500, 4XX, HD-600)
.

'nor does it do smoky room jazz quite right'

You're kidding surely ?!?!

Every instrument is tonally just right IMO and can be listened to for hour upon hour especially jazz.


'The 600 is cool and accurate.... clean but cold'

Likewise... half right: accurate but certainly not cold, no chance.

Everyones ears are different, likewise amps (maybe yours, AMP THAT IS, is not the right one ?), also post Eno Roxy cold ?!? The lounge lizard smooth Ferry stuff is much, much warmer and organic, but in no way better, than the early otherworldly more technical, experimental stuff. A world apart (but the opposite of your assertion). Both are superb.

You write far far better than me but I'm sorry have to question yor hearing/opinion. Certainly yours and it seems many others (especially on the HD600 thread where half of the contributors don't actually seem to like the headphones that much ?!?!) seems to be very different to my own experiance.

Each to their own !!!!

 

[bagwell359]

In answer to @god-bluff

I don't joke around about my opinions on equipment. Here with what I have that's what I hear. I just bought a better cd transport w/ a better connection to my DAC, so we'll see if that reveals new things.

The 800 is cold, the 600 is cool. Like I said it doesn't add, but it removes bits of a performance. If you compare it to lesser cans or equipment w/o high qualities of revelation (and I have no idea about yours - I didn't read it on purpose) than the 600 is going to look great. About 14 months ago I had it as the best can I ever heard - outside of two stats I knew around '02-'05. It's no joke whatsoever. It's a reference for being flat, and neutral - but it editorializes in a harder way to spot than a can that adds lots of bass and treble which is bloody obvious.

I was talking about ENO post Roxy not Roxy post ENO. And it's not an insult to call Eno's early work post Roxy as cold - it's a description not an insult.

For a time I found the MD 4XX to be more entertaining and livable than the HD-600, but, lots of close listening broke that idea - see, good to evaluate ones opinions every now and then to be sure. Which why as much as I don't care for the roller coaster sound of the Audeze LCD-2C, I'll have to check out their products in the future with an open mind.

Question what you like. I can understand why people are fierce about Senn's. It's certainly a very credible brand that has produced a number of great products. I give it an A- for certain flaws I hear. If you remove the differences of speakers vs cans, I'd say the HD-600 reminds me a lot the ML Aerius, and the Maggie .7i. Both very credible speakers - run on say a Bryston 3B. My modded HE-500's remind me of the ML CLS IIz w/ Gradient subs, and Maggie 3.7i (as run on Pass electronics) very credible speakers of a higher tier - bit more reality, at a good deal higher cost.

BTW, if you haven't heard the HE-500 as I have them moddified and on a Class A amp and serious DAC than why/how can you question my assessment?

Also, if the HD-600 is perfect, why did Sennheiser make the 650, 800, 800S, 820? Marketing blather to make money since the HD-600 is the marvel of the age? I don't really like the 650 myself (not as much as the 600) but the 800 is clearly more defined and has a much bigger sound stage. So the 800 is an "11" to the 600's 10? Well the 800 is hard to live with unless you've got some romantic tubes injecting humanity into the sound.

I rate the HD-600 as an A-, a mighty feat given the price. But perfect it ain't.

 

[L8MDL]

In answer to @god-bluff

I don't joke around about my opinions on equipment. Here with what I have that's what I hear. I just bought a better cd transport w/ a better connection to my DAC, so we'll see if that reveals new things.

The 800 is cold, the 600 is cool. Like I said it doesn't add, but it removes bits of a performance. If you compare it to lesser cans or equipment w/o high qualities of revelation (and I have no idea about yours - I didn't read it on purpose) than the 600 is going to look great. About 14 months ago I had it as the best can I ever heard - outside of two stats I knew around '02-'05. It's no joke whatsoever. It's a reference for being flat, and neutral - but it editorializes in a harder way...

I rate the HD-600 as an A-, a mighty feat given the price. But perfect it ain't.

Try the HD660S and get back to us. My 600's are retired for just the reasons you list.

 

[bagwell359]

Try the HD660S and get back to us. My 600's are retired for just the reasons you list.

I'll take note to look for a pair. Good to know you agree with my conclusions. So then the 660S is the best can available - or if not what is better in your experience? I'm planning on looking for a holy grail type can - as long as the grail is less than 2k. Probably look into an 820, not much of a fan of the 800 however. Maybe I'll check into the 800S too.

p.s. Just read up on the comments re: 660S on HF, pretty impressive.