[yangian]

  Many go beyond that and proclaim their experience to be the end all and get agitated when someone feels differently. Sometimes they forget about friendly discussions.

 
Oh, I see. Thanks for kindly reminding.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  Perception without proper testing methods is subject to expectation and the human element. Under the proper conditions one might be surprised at what they might learn about their senses. Human echoic memory used for detailed comparisons last 3-4 seconds, after that we color the details. I'm afraid that's part of being human that we are not easily aware of. In any case if you are enjoying your kit, be happy and listen on..

 
Understand. But which review on the headfi does not based on this fact? This should be a well recognized premise. Everyone here is just sharing his/her listening experience.

oh boy I wish it was this obvious for everybody. more so for newcomers seeking advice so that they wouldn't take everything at face value.  (I have a dream!)
 
OT: yangian is an actual name or is it the math thing that I never dreamed of understanding?

 

[DavidA]

  Many go beyond that and proclaim their experience to be the end all and get agitated when someone feels differently. Sometimes they forget about friendly discussions.

had this happen a few time already on other threads

, I'm getting better at just moving on, life is too short to argue IMO.

 

[StanD]

  had this happen a few time already on other threads

, I'm getting better at just moving on, life is too short to argue IMO.

Thankfully most HD600 owners are nice about things. Some threads are like open warfare if you don't go with the tide.

 

[Argyris]

  Thankfully most HD600 owners are nice about things. Some threads are like open warfare if you don't go with the tide.

 
I get the impression this is because if you're buying or using an HD 600 these days, you've already to some extent eschewed the pursuit of the latest shinies, or at least you can see them in the context of being incremental improvements at best, and not life-defining objects.
 
The HD 600 is old news. Not that the thread needs a reminder, but its lineage goes all the way back to the early 90s in the form of the HD 580 (which I'd love to try someday). I recall how in Tyll's seminal article on the HD 580/6x0 family he said that a lot of enthusiasts have been rediscovering these headphones, either by dragging their old pair out of the closet or buying one brand new. I suspect a lot of people have gotten jaded by the hobby these days with all the $$$$($...) flagships and hoopla and long for a simpler time when the Sennheiser flagship was about as good as you could get and only cost around $400. These headphones certainly haven't gotten worse over time, even if they have gotten shunted into the "mid-fi" (ugh!) designation.
 
Whatever the case may be, I've noticed a similar friendly attitude in the DT880 thread. There's another headphone that's old news, though depending on which version of Beyerdynamic model history you happen to subscribe to, and what you define as a DT880, it only goes back to 2003, with a minor aesthetic refresh in 2005.

 

[alitomr]

   
I get the impression this is because if you're buying or using an HD 600 these days, you've already to some extent eschewed the pursuit of the latest shinies, or at least you can see them in the context of being incremental improvements at best, and not life-defining objects.
 
The HD 600 is old news. Not that the thread needs a reminder, but its lineage goes all the way back to the early 90s in the form of the HD 580 (which I'd love to try someday). I recall how in Tyll's seminal article on the HD 580/6x0 family he said that a lot of enthusiasts have been rediscovering these headphones, either by dragging their old pair out of the closet or buying one brand new. I suspect a lot of people have gotten jaded by the hobby these days with all the $$$$($...) flagships and hoopla and long for a simpler time when the Sennheiser flagship was about as good as you could get and only cost around $400. These headphones certainly haven't gotten worse over time, even if they have gotten shunted into the "mid-fi" (ugh!) designation.
 
Whatever the case may be, I've noticed a similar friendly attitude in the DT880 thread. There's another headphone that's old news, though depending on which version of Beyerdynamic model history you happen to subscribe to, and what you define as a DT880, it only goes back to 2003, with a minor aesthetic refresh in 2005.

Wait. the HD600 is not hi-fi anymore??
 
LOL. 

 

[Argyris]

  Wait. the HD600 is not hi-fi anymore??
 
LOL. 

 
Guess not. Trust your ears, unless what you're hearing cost less than the TOTL unit. Then trust the price tag. 

 

[yangian]

 
oh boy I wish it was this obvious for everybody. more so for newcomers seeking advice so that they wouldn't take everything at face value.  (I have a dream!)
 
OT: yangian is an actual name or is it the math thing that I never dreamed of understanding?

 
haha. It's an ID. So what you get when you google it, that's it.

 
BTW, actually Yang is a name, to memorialize C. N. Yang.

 

[DavidA]

   
I get the impression this is because if you're buying or using an HD 600 these days, you've already to some extent eschewed the pursuit of the latest shinies, or at least you can see them in the context of being incremental improvements at best, and not life-defining objects.
 
The HD 600 is old news. Not that the thread needs a reminder, but its lineage goes all the way back to the early 90s in the form of the HD 580 (which I'd love to try someday). I recall how in Tyll's seminal article on the HD 580/6x0 family he said that a lot of enthusiasts have been rediscovering these headphones, either by dragging their old pair out of the closet or buying one brand new. I suspect a lot of people have gotten jaded by the hobby these days with all the $$$$($...) flagships and hoopla and long for a simpler time when the Sennheiser flagship was about as good as you could get and only cost around $400. These headphones certainly haven't gotten worse over time, even if they have gotten shunted into the "mid-fi" (ugh!) designation.
 
Whatever the case may be, I've noticed a similar friendly attitude in the DT880 thread. There's another headphone that's old news, though depending on which version of Beyerdynamic model history you happen to subscribe to, and what you define as a DT880, it only goes back to 2003, with a minor aesthetic refresh in 2005.

I paid $239 for my HD-600 so I think its a bargain for a "mid-fi" headphone but at the time the HE-400i was $299, depending on your preference either is a really good deal at those prices.  While I like the HD-600 I think other mid-fi cans have caught up with it over the past few years like the HE-400i but it still comes down to personal choice which you will end up liking.
 
The Elise thread is one of the threads that seems to have very friendly attitudes and I haven't seen any arguments between posters yet and its very busy there compared to many of the other threads.

 

[StanD]

   
I get the impression this is because if you're buying or using an HD 600 these days, you've already to some extent eschewed the pursuit of the latest shinies, or at least you can see them in the context of being incremental improvements at best, and not life-defining objects.
 
The HD 600 is old news. Not that the thread needs a reminder, but its lineage goes all the way back to the early 90s in the form of the HD 580 (which I'd love to try someday). I recall how in Tyll's seminal article on the HD 580/6x0 family he said that a lot of enthusiasts have been rediscovering these headphones, either by dragging their old pair out of the closet or buying one brand new. I suspect a lot of people have gotten jaded by the hobby these days with all the $$$$($...) flagships and hoopla and long for a simpler time when the Sennheiser flagship was about as good as you could get and only cost around $400. These headphones certainly haven't gotten worse over time, even if they have gotten shunted into the "mid-fi" (ugh!) designation.
 
Whatever the case may be, I've noticed a similar friendly attitude in the DT880 thread. There's another headphone that's old news, though depending on which version of Beyerdynamic model history you happen to subscribe to, and what you define as a DT880, it only goes back to 2003, with a minor aesthetic refresh in 2005.

I have newer Ortho cans that cost much more that I just love, however, the HD600 doesn't sound any worse than when I got it. I prefer it over the HD650's which were deemed as its replacement. I prefer it over the HD700's which I felt is a bit strident. I'll call the HD800 an improvement, but not earth shattering. Lets face it, they got it right with the HD600 and time isn't going to change that.

 

[Midgetguy]

 
I have newer Ortho cans that cost much more that I just love, however, the HD600 doesn't sound any worse than when I got it. I prefer it over the HD650's which were deemed as its replacement. I prefer it over the HD700's which I felt is a bit strident. I'll call the HD800 an improvement, but not earth shattering. Lets face it, they got it right with the HD600 and time isn't going to change that.

Yeah, the HD600 doesn't ride the modern technology trend of "was good for its time, not quite so good now." It was good then and it's good now.

 

[Sonic Defender]

  Yeah, the HD600 doesn't ride the modern technology trend of "was good for its time, not quite so good now." It was good then and it's good now.

The fundamentals of quality sound reproduction don't really change. Same with how music is recorded and mastered, not much change in reality in the last few decades unless I'm missing something so a good headphone design from 20 years ago could still sound good today. An older design might lack a little of the contemporary tuning, but a little EQ can fix some of that up.
 
I am now experimenting with three gentle low-shelf filters doing modest db increases fairly narrow at 80, 60, 40Hz. So far the results are surprisingly nice. I have no idea if I'm violating good principles of EQing, but I'm just going by ear.

 

[Argyris]

  The fundamentals of quality sound reproduction don't really change. Same with how music is recorded and mastered, not much change in reality in the last few decades unless I'm missing something so a good headphone design from 20 years ago could still sound good today. An older design might lack a little of the contemporary tuning, but a little EQ can fix some of that up.
 
I am now experimenting with three gentle low-shelf filters doing modest db increases fairly narrow at 80, 60, 40Hz. So far the results are surprisingly nice. I have no idea if I'm violating good principles of EQing, but I'm just going by ear.

 
The bass EQ switch on my FiiO Q1 does a nice job of boosting the bass tastefully without bleeding into the mids or creating an obnoxious midbass hump. According to brooko's measurements, it's a gentle shelf rising gradually to about 5.5 dB of boost at 20 Hz. A good parametric EQ would do an even better job, by allowing the user to focus the boost on the region below where the HD 600 starts dropping off (around 100 Hz), but the FiiO solution is convenient. I used to tie myself to parametric EQ, and between my Rockbox'ed Sansa Clip Zip and the fragile VST plugin support somebody hacked together for Foobar, it was cumbersome and limiting in that I couldn't just plug my headphone into anything and get the EQ, like, say, for any sound in Windows*.
 
Not to disparage your efforts or anything. If I ever needed accurate sub bass rendering on my HD 600 (like if I were checking a mix), I wouldn't hesitate to use an EQ. My own experimental testing showed this has great potential, but I didn't do much except take a quick look at the InnerFidelity chart for the HD 600 and roughly compensate for the rolloff with a shelf.
 
*Such a thing actually did exist, but it was experimental and only worked well in Windows 7 and was even more cumbersome to set up than my other options. I left it behind when I upgraded to Windows 10.

 

[henkie196]

  It's good to avoid the marketing trap. I believe that once you have a quality DAC and or amp, easy enough to find, the story about scaling is more about marketing than appreciable sound benefits. IMO belief is a scary tool for marketing and forums. I believe that headphones are where you'll set the stage for your listening experience.

I don't know if you'd need a quality DAC, there doesn't seem to be much sound quality difference between the different DACs that I've tried, mostly in sound signature. A good amp can be useful, if you have hard to drive headphones. Or if your DAP has a really weak amp section. But there seems, to me, little point in getting a DAC/amp that costs more than your headphones (which seems to happen a lot on Head-Fi). As you say, the headphones have the biggest impact on sound (quality and signature).
 

  I have a really different approach from you, I like almost all headphones that I listen to for their different sound signatures and have kept most of what I've bought, and with DACs and amps I've pretty much kept them all also.  I do have 3 different area in my place where I listen so my gear is spread out over these 3 areas and my GF also uses it so its not like its just sitting there.  And when my son visits during breaks from college and my GF's daughter is visiting having extra gear around is nice so everyone is happy.  Another reason is I like the idea of "using the right tool for the job" when listening to various genres of music, classical on most closed headphones is not very good while EDM or bass heavy stuff will not sound great on very open bass lite gear.

I can appreciate that. I had a HE-560 for a while as well, which had a bit more oomph in the bass than the HD800, but was in terms of sound quality really similar. And the extra bass can be nice for electronic music that I listen to. And the HD800 can be a bit tiring with some death metal (though that is in no small measure because of the mastering as well). But in the end I don't want two expensive headphones, and I don't really swap between headphones that much either (switching every other song would be a hassle, as I always listen to large playlists on shuffle). And the HE-560 was always noticeably different in sound signature than my speakers, which I listen the most to, and which I enjoy listening to the most, which is not always bad, but it reminds me of the way the HE-560s were not quite what I would call neutral.
 
Therefore, I just stick to one headphone. It works best for me, though I understand your point of view as well.
 

  oh boy I wish it was this obvious for everybody. more so for newcomers seeking advice so that they wouldn't take everything at face value.  (I have a dream!)

Ok, you shouldn't take everything at face value, but most posters are not exactly very moderating in their experiences either, and occasionally if you see a big thread with only praise, and you don't have the option to audition something yourself, you might start to believe that this particular headphone / amp / DAC is what you might need for a better experience.
 
And when you get it, and depending on your nature / mood, you either convince yourself that the posters were right, or you realise that despite the flood of posters telling each other one thing, they don't necessarily match with your experiences.
 

I get the impression this is because if you're buying or using an HD 600 these days, you've already to some extent eschewed the pursuit of the latest shinies, or at least you can see them in the context of being incremental improvements at best, and not life-defining objects.

Not only is it not the latest shiny, it is also not considered TotL. De HD800 is also not the latest shiny, but moderation can sometimes be hard to find in that particular thread.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  oh boy I wish it was this obvious for everybody. more so for newcomers seeking advice so that they wouldn't take everything at face value.  (I have a dream!)

Ok, you shouldn't take everything at face value, but most posters are not exactly very moderating in their experiences either, and occasionally if you see a big thread with only praise, and you don't have the option to audition something yourself, you might start to believe that this particular headphone / amp / DAC is what you might need for a better experience.
 
And when you get it, and depending on your nature / mood, you either convince yourself that the posters were right, or you realise that despite the flood of posters telling each other one thing, they don't necessarily match with your experiences.

oh sure, don't get me wrong, the readers are always the victims. I was just saying it would be good for them to have a "skepticism starter pack". ^_^
as for reviewers, I found that it's really hard to have them make things clear between facts and impressions. after all, it's not like pro reviewers are any better at separating facts from feelings or how the sponsor is paying part of the bills.

 I rely on measurements so much because I can't really find reliable information otherwise. so I'm with you all the way. it's not easy to find good intel and preconceptions(on all sides) certainly don't help.