Schiit Owners Unite
Apr 8, 2017 at 11:08 PM Post #12,587 of 13,350
   
The only headphone I've used that pushed the limits of the Magni 2 Uber was the Pioneer SE-300: a piezoelectric from the 1970s and one of the rarest headphones.

 
I used to have a pair of Hifiman HE-5LEs. They were about as hard to drive as 600ohm DT990s. But I'm seriously craving some ortho smoothness again, and the HE-560s have my eye.
 
Apr 9, 2017 at 6:16 PM Post #12,589 of 13,350
  How does that actually sound? I just looked it up and only found a couple headfi links of people selling/trading them years ago.

 
I'm having trouble putting it into words, honestly. I will say that I did not find its sound to be noteworthy. Perhaps that's why I am hesitant to be more specific. I wouldn't bother pursuing it, especially due to its rarity and high power requirements.
 
And now it's time for one of my signature rants!
bigsmile_face.gif

 
Since sound is defined as "the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium", it is subjective by its very nature. The only way to really know how something sounds is by listening with your own ears. And that will only apply to your own circumstances: the music played, the components in the system, the volume levels, anatomy (the shape and size of your ears, for instance), biology (the chemical reactions in our bodies can change the way things sound to us at any given time), and so on.
 
Unfortunately, words can't accurately convey much at all pertaining to how something sounds. I could write hundreds of pages about how something sounds and not even scratch the surface of telling someone how the experience actually is. In the end, it's just a bunch of stereotyped terminology that often could mean anything to anyone. Take any audio product and you're bound to find any manner of conflicting opinions. I can all but guarantee the terms in an audiophile glossary like this one have been used to describe virtually any audio product at one point or another. I can't tell you how many times my own experience has been vastly different from how others described it.
 
I've grown jaded by the audiophile hobby...
 
On a loosely related note... Ever since getting the JBL LSR305 (or rather, a pair of them), I've become one of those speaker elitists.
 
Although I'd heard speakers throughout my life (in music studios, homes, concerts, cars, etc.), I never gave them much of a chance compared to my headphone obsession. I owned five figures worth of headphones and auditioned five figures worth of others on top of that, so you could say I've gotten a good idea of what headphones can do, and up until recently, I preferred their more intimate presentation.
 
However...these $250 (I believe they were $400 for a pair when they first came out) speakers completely outclass headphones. I could say that I regret investing so many resources into headphones when they have been so utterly defeated by speakers that are many times more affordable...but I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't lived with all those headphones.
 
People like to say that headphones are more detailed, but I must challenge this assertion. I hear all the same details (and possibly more, depending on how you look at it) from the speakers (even compared to the most resolving headphones); it's just that they're coming from many more places, with greater depth and subtlety, whereas headphones position everything next to (or in) your ears, making certain details more apparent. But that's not how things are in real life. (The original performance, I mean.)
 
I think the "superior resolution and detail" of headphones is merely fake detail. When a harp, for example, is at the back of the stage and much softer than the rest of the orchestra, that's real detail, and speakers excel at emulating it; when it's right next to your ears and not much softer than the other instruments, but you can analyze it more clearly due to that, that's fake detail.
 
Most importantly, the overall sound of the speakers is far more realistic, like having the actual objects in the room making the sound. It's not just soundstage and imaging that account for this, but everything else: timbre, tone, texture, transients...the list goes on.
 
Obviously, some of my statements here are ultimately subjective and just my opinion, so I have no problem with others disagreeing.
 
Apr 9, 2017 at 9:11 PM Post #12,590 of 13,350
I'm having trouble putting it into words, honestly. I will say that I did not find its sound to be noteworthy. Perhaps that's why I am hesitant to be more specific. I wouldn't bother pursuing it, especially due to its rarity and high power requirements.

And now it's time for one of my signature rants! :bigsmile_face:

Since sound is defined as "the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium", it is subjective by its very nature. The only way to really know how something sounds is by listening with your own ears. And that will only apply to your own circumstances: the music played, the components in the system, the volume levels, anatomy (the shape and size of your ears, for instance), biology (the chemical reactions in our bodies can change the way things sound to us at any given time), and so on.

Unfortunately, words can't accurately convey much at all pertaining to how something sounds. I could write hundreds of pages about how something sounds and not even scratch the surface of telling someone how the experience actually is. In the end, it's just a bunch of stereotyped terminology that often could mean anything to anyone. Take any audio product and you're bound to find any manner of conflicting opinions. I can all but guarantee the terms in an audiophile glossary like this one have been used to describe virtually any audio product at one point or another. I can't tell you how many times my own experience has been vastly different from how others described it.

I've grown jaded by the audiophile hobby...

On a loosely related note... Ever since getting the JBL LSR305 (or rather, a pair of them), I've become one of those speaker elitists.

Although I'd heard speakers throughout my life (in music studios, homes, concerts, cars, etc.), I never gave them much of a chance compared to my headphone obsession. I owned five figures worth of headphones and auditioned five figures worth of others on top of that, so you could say I've gotten a good idea of what headphones can do, and up until recently, I preferred their more intimate presentation.

However...these $250 (I believe they were $400 for a pair when they first came out) speakers completely outclass headphones. I could say that I regret investing so many resources into headphones when they have been so utterly defeated by speakers that are many times more affordable...but I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't lived with all those headphones.

People like to say that headphones are more detailed, but I must challenge this assertion. I hear all the same details (and possibly more, depending on how you look at it) from the speakers (even compared to the most resolving headphones); it's just that they're coming from many more places, with greater depth and subtlety, whereas headphones position everything next to (or in) your ears, making certain details more apparent. But that's not how things are in real life. (The original performance, I mean.)

I think the "superior resolution and detail" of headphones is merely fake detail. When a harp, for example, is at the back of the stage and much softer than the rest of the orchestra, that's real detail, and speakers excel at emulating it; when it's right next to your ears and not much softer than the other instruments, but you can analyze it more clearly due to that, that's fake detail.

Most importantly, the overall sound of the speakers is far more realistic, like having the actual objects in the room making the sound. It's not just soundstage and imaging that account for this, but everything else: timbre, tone, texture, transients...the list goes on.

Obviously, some of my statements here are ultimately subjective and just my opinion, so I have no problem with others disagreeing.

Well man thanks a lot for the very long post it's very informative. I am going to surely check out those speakers now. I have a pair of Klipsch R-15PM
 
Apr 9, 2017 at 9:17 PM Post #12,591 of 13,350
Concerning a rep comment... I never said the JBL speakers were "elite" (they're pretty cheap...); I said I have become a speaker elitist, as in I prefer speakers and look down on headphones now.
 
Well man thanks a lot for the very long post it's very informative. I am going to surely check out those speakers now. I have a pair of Klipsch R-15PM

 
Please note that I am a near-total novice when it comes to speakers. I have no idea how mine compare to others in their price range. But I did buy them because they seem to be one of the most well-regarded active monitors. As it is now, the low frequencies radiate through the furniture and walls too much since they're not separated. My speaker stands (Samson MS200) haven't come in, so they're just sitting on the table. No EQ or room treatments yet either. So with each of those tweaks, they're sure to sound even better.
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 12:13 AM Post #12,593 of 13,350
  Concerning a rep comment... I never said the JBL speakers were "elite" (they're pretty cheap...); I said I have become a speaker elitist, as in I prefer speakers and look down on headphones now.
 
 
Please note that I am a near-total novice when it comes to speakers. I have no idea how mine compare to others in their price range. But I did buy them because they seem to be one of the most well-regarded active monitors. As it is now, the low frequencies radiate through the furniture and walls too much since they're not separated. My speaker stands (Samson MS200) haven't come in, so they're just sitting on the table. No EQ or room treatments yet either. So with each of those tweaks, they're sure to sound even better.


Well I can always buy a set, compare them with the R-15PM's and see which are better and sell the JBL if they aren't as good.
I need a second set of monitors for my new house anyway as I will have them setup in my office with a TV and everything in a nice switched setup with proper DAC's and stuff.
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 12:15 AM Post #12,594 of 13,350
In the interest of being a good Samaritan and having been on this forum for nearly a decade, I strongly encourage others to take Musical Alchemists posts and advice with a gigantic grain of salt.

 
If you disagree with something I have said, feel free to explain how you feel I am wrong. But saying what you've said without clarifying is little more than mud-slinging.
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM Post #12,595 of 13,350
   
If you disagree with something I have said, feel free to explain how you feel I am wrong. But saying what you've said without clarifying is little more than mud-slinging.

I fail to see what this has to do with being an owner of Schiit products. Maybe there is a thread on here that would be more applicable and if not, maybe there is a site dedicated to those who prefer speakers to headphones. I like both but I do not sit around trolling about it.
bigsmile_face.gif

 
Apr 10, 2017 at 11:21 AM Post #12,596 of 13,350
  I fail to see what this has to do with being an owner of Schiit products. Maybe there is a thread on here that would be more applicable and if not, maybe there is a site dedicated to those who prefer speakers to headphones. I like both but I do not sit around trolling about it.
bigsmile_face.gif


But people will use their Schiit with speakers or headphones!
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 11:47 AM Post #12,597 of 13,350
That is partially true and it is a bit of a stretch.
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM Post #12,598 of 13,350
Doesn't the introduction of Vidar and the fact that Schiit doesn't make speakers introduce them into the conversation now?
Schiit is no longer a manufacturer of DACS and headphone amps and preamps only.
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 12:12 PM Post #12,599 of 13,350
  I fail to see what this has to do with being an owner of Schiit products. Maybe there is a thread on here that would be more applicable and if not, maybe there is a site dedicated to those who prefer speakers to headphones. I like both but I do not sit around trolling about it.
bigsmile_face.gif

 
If you had read the thread, you would have known that I use the speakers with the Fulla 2 and even discussed an issue I was having. Plenty of others in this thread have posted comparisons between speakers and headphones, even recently. If you have a problem with me talking about speakers here, then logically you should also have a problem with those who talk about headphones here.
 
The issue is that he basically said, "I don't like Music Alchemist" (actually, he got my user name wrong, but whatever) without supporting the argument with anything. So someone posts a personal attack and you're fine with that even though it's against the rules, yet you accuse me of trolling when I post my honest audio impressions that are not much different than countless others in this thread? Alrighty then.
 
  But people will use their Schiit with speakers or headphones!

 
I happen to have no problem with the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for speakers, whereas I think it sounds mediocre as a headphone amp. (Especially compared to the Chord Mojo.)
 
  Doesn't the introduction of Vidar and the fact that Schiit doesn't make speakers introduce them into the conversation now?
Schiit is no longer a manufacturer of DACS and headphone amps and preamps only.

 
Good point. And the Ragnarok is a speaker amp too.
 
Apr 10, 2017 at 11:59 PM Post #12,600 of 13,350
If you had read the thread, you would have known that I use the speakers with the Fulla 2 and even discussed an issue I was having. Plenty of others in this thread have posted comparisons between speakers and headphones, even recently. If you have a problem with me talking about speakers here, then logically you should also have a problem with those who talk about headphones here.

The issue is that he basically said, "I don't like Music Alchemist" (actually, he got my user name wrong, but whatever) without supporting the argument with anything. So someone posts a personal attack and you're fine with that even though it's against the rules, yet you accuse me of trolling when I post my honest audio impressions that are not much different than countless others in this thread? Alrighty then.


I happen to have no problem with the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for speakers, whereas I think it sounds mediocre as a headphone amp. (Especially compared to the Chord Mojo.)


Good point. And the Ragnarok is a speaker amp too.


Honestly, I think the issue some of us have is that it sounds like you have an axe to grind against headphones and, well, this is head-fi and we kind of like being positive about headphones. And, Schiit's wheel house IS headphone amps. AND, this is a Schiit unity forum... like, we kind of wanna talk about our communal love of both those things. Maybe you'd have better reception in the Fulla impression forum? In that sorta setting it's all about pros and cons. Here tho, I always had the feeling it was about excentuating the positivity.

Not looking to pick a fight - just trying to explain how some might be feeling.
 

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